QB Pennington, Chad #10 QB Henne, Chad #7 QB White, Pat #6 WR Ginn, Ted #19 WR Turner, Patrick #84 WR Bess, Davone #15 WR Camarillo, Greg #83 WR Hartline, Brian #82 WR Armstrong, Anthony #11 WR Marion, Brennan #14 WR Lowber, Todd #16 WR London, Brandon #17 WR Wilford, Ernest #18 WR Williams, Chris #87 RB Brown, Ronnie #23 RB Williams, Ricky #34 RB Cobbs, Patrick #38 RB Hilliard, Lex #26 RB Kimble, Anthony #45 FB Polite, Lousaka #36 FB Brown, Chris #20 TE Fasano, Anthony #80 TE Martin, David #88 TE Nalbone, John #86 TE Haynos, Joey #81 TE Bronson, Jared #89 LT Long, Jake #77 LG Smiley, Justin #65 C Grove, Jake #64 RG Thomas, Donald #66 RT Carey, Vernon #72 OT Gardner, Andrew #63 OG Alleman, Andy #57 OG Lewis, Mark #60 OG Murphy, Shawn #61 OG Berger, Joe #67 OG Ndukwe, Ikechuku #68 OG Quinn, J.D. #69 OT Rogers, SirVincent #73 OT Garner, Nate #75 OT Frye, Brandon #76 NT Ferguson, Jason #95 NT Soliai, Paul #96 NT Cohen, Joe #62 NT Ellis, Louis #76 DE Langford, Kendall #70 DE Merling, Phillip #97 DE Starks, Randy #94 DE Dotson, Lionel #71 DE McDaniel, Tony #78 DE Baker, Ryan #79 DE Wright, Rodrique #90 ILB Ayodele, Akin #51 ILB Crowder, Channing #52 ILB Torbor, Reggie #53 ILB Walden, Erik #50 ILB Kershaw, William #58 ILB Folsom, J.D. #50 OLB Porter, Joey #55 OLB Taylor, Jason #99 OLB Roth, Matt #98 OLB Wake, Cameron #91 OLB Martin, Orion #48 OLB George, Tearrius #49 OLB Anderson, Charlie #56 OLB Moses, Quentin #74 CB Allen, Will #25 CB Davis, Vontae #24 CB Smith, Sean #31 CB Allen, Jason #32 CB Green, Eric #21 CB Thomas, Joey #22 CB Billingsley, Will #27 CB Jones, Nathan #33 CB Babers, Scorpio #35 FS Wilson, Gibril #28 SS Bell, Yeremiah #37 FS Clemons, Chris #30 SS Culver, Tyrone #29 P Fields, Brandon #2 K Carpenter, Dan #5 LS Denney, John #92 Players in orange are fighting for a roster spot. Players in bold are starters.
You (any Dolphin fan) has to feel good about all of the youth on the roster. If this draft is succesfull it will be one of the best two successive drafts the Dolphin's have ever had.
Looks like things just got a whole lot tougher for Tearrius George, Charlie Anderson, Orion Martin, and Quentin Moses. I wonder if Matt Roth should be in orange now.
Here's a tentative depth chart if you want a look. http://www.thephins.com/index.php/team/depth-chart/2009
Thanks. I've got a few issues with those projections. WR - I wouldn't list Camarillo, Bess, and London ahead of Patrick Turner. As our 3rd round draft pick he is virtually guaranteed a roster spot. The others are not. I would be surprised to see both Camarillo and Bess cut but its possible that one of them doesn't stick. Hartline could take Camarillo's spot and Turner will most likely take London's spot. TE - I wouldn't list Haynos ahead of Nalbone or Bronson and its possible that David Martin could be cut to make room for a promising rookie. OL - I wouldn't list Frye ahead of Gardner and I wouldn't list Alleman ahead of Murphy. Its very possible that Frye and Alleman get cut. DE - I wouldn't list Starks ahead of Merling. However it doesn't really matter because they are likely to get same number of snaps regardless of who actually starts. OLB - I definitely wouldn't list Porter ahead of Taylor. They will probably get an equal number of snaps like Starks and Merling but there's no way Roth will be listed as a starter instead of JT. Offensive coordinators don't game plan around backups. I wouldn't list Moses ahead of Tearrius George either. ILB - I wouldn't list Kershaw ahead of Folson or Walden. They have an edge over him because of their special teams play. CB - I definitely wouldn't list Eric Green and Jason Allen ahead of Vontae Davis. If Davis doesn't start I would expect it to be because Sean Smith beat him out not Green or Allen. I wouldn't list Nathan Jones ahead of Smith either. FS - I wouldn't list Courtney Bryan ahead of Chris Clemons.
Basically, the difference is...by and large....you'd slot rookies ahead of veterans. We don't do that until they actually get to camp and we see them perform, where/what teams they're practicing with, etc. Or it's a Jake Long situation where an elite talent is stepping into a gaping hole. Until then, they're at or near the bottom of the barrel. Just like in the locker room. Turner is assured a roster spot, but that doesn't mean he'll start. Or even suit up on gameday. A year ago we all slotted Ernest Wilford as the starter. The point being, you're not going to play for this regime if you haven't earned the right. Bess isn't going anywhere. He's too good and he can return kicks. Right now, today, he's probably (still) your starter. Camarillo's knee could land him on the PUP, and possibly get him cut thereafter if it's bad, which makes the Hartline pick interesting. But that could be more of an issue for Brandon London than Camarillo. Hartline is a very good special teamer. And he's pretty tall at 6-2. I can't see Camarillo off this team unless his knee is really busted. He does a lot of things well and offers some semblance of veteran presence, which is sorely needed at the position. 6-8 Haynos played in seven games and caught a TD pass last year. How many have either of these guys caught? We even called an iso play for Haynos on 4th down (remember that fade route in the endzone?). Martin is interesting. He really stepped up last year and played well. Played tough. I'd be surprised if he was let go. I think both of the rookies are longshots. One could end up on the practice squad, with an eye on 2010. Which guys played last year? Our guard situation became awful and Shawn Murphy couldn't even dress. They were signing guys off the street midseason and they were getting on the field before him. He was what, the 8th guard on the roster? Those two could certainly get cut. But they actually played. Alleman started. Murphy and Gardner have a lot to prove. Starks is entering his sixth year and was our best player against the run, according to KC Joyner's metrics. Actually, Starks was one of the best in the entire league, according to Joyner. And he did a really good job against Jason Brown when Ferguson and Soliai were out against Baltimore. Starks is probably the best pass rusher among the defensive lineman too. But I agree that Merling should play a lot. He and Starks will probably be your interior guys on third down (again). Ideally we'll have a nice 2-down rotation at DE, possibly inclding Lionel Dotson, who they like. Ok, I have to strongly disagree here. At least partially. IMO, Jason Taylor is here.....today....as a situational pass rusher. He is not a starter at this moment. Now, I think he's probably still better against the run than Joey Porter. And he might still be a better overall player than Porter. We can't really gauge Taylor from last season. To me, Taylor is the more dynamic player. And I'd prefer him over Porter. However, I would also question Porter's ability to handle not being a starter, especially considering his status as the team's mouthpiece and defensive leader, and the fact that his stat sheet says "17.5 sacks". You also have to consider situational football. Which guy is better equipt to come off the bench on third downs? Taylor. All that aside, I think Taylor is going to have to earn everything he's going to get this year. Including a starter spot on our depth chart! This is probably the most interesting and unknown aspect of the team. I honestly don't know how they're going to handle this or what they've got in mind. But I can't wait to find out! One thing I do feel strongly about is, there's no way in hell your starting linebackers are Jason Taylor and Joey Porter. You lose too much on first and second down. Taylor is not a strong side linebacker. And Joey is not very good against the run even on the weakside. We already tried this setup a bit in 2007 and it didn't work out so well. IMO, between Porter, Taylor and Roth.....Roth has the firmest grasp on a starting job. According to Joyner, Roth was just behind Starks as a run defender. After that, there was a pretty good dropoff. And OC's do gameplan for Roth. Specifically, they gameplan away from him. That's why you saw TE's motioning over to Porter's side pre-snap; so they could run at him rather than Roth. As for Moses and George, broken record....but one guy has two NFL seasons and 19 games under his belt. Again, Kershaw played last year. Folson is a 7th round rookie, which is essentially a free agent. Walden is a converted defensive end now playing the weakside. I'd honestly be shocked if he doesn't make the team. He's more of a lock than Charlie Anderson IMO. I think you put too much faith into guys that have yet to put on a jock strap at the pro level. Looking back to 2006, would it have been wise to pencil in Jason Allen at safety? I think today, Eric Green is your starter opposite Will Allen. He's the experienced, physical veteran. Certainly the best player will start, rookie or otherwise. But cornerback is one of the toughest positions for a rookie to step into. Look at how good Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is in Arizona. And even he didn't beat out Green right away. And he didn't actually start until Green got hurt. My point is, no matter how great or talented the player, more often than not he doesn't start as a rookie cornerback. Not Sam Madison. Not Patrick Surtain. I think Nathan Jones and Jason Allen are probably battling for one roster spot. And it probably will come down to special teams play. Again, one guy has played for Tony Sparano. The other for Tommy Bowden. So I guess to be completely redundant, rookies have to earn it.
Makes sense. Probably the best way to do it at this point in the offseason. I apologize because I wasn't clear. I didn't mean I wouldn't list players like London, Green, and Bryan ahead of rookies like Turner, Davis, or Clemons because I believe the rookies will stick and those other guys won't. I'm just saying we don't know who is ahead of who yet. However there is a reason why we drafted those particular players, there are only 53 spots, and somebody will have to go. I don't believe Bess and Camarillo are going anywhere either but you never know. If Pat White returns punts for us then that's one less thing Bess has to offer. I believe Patrick Turner will win the starting job opposite of Ginn. He's that good. That leaves the slot available for Camarillo or Bess and we might not keep both especially with a wideout like Hartline waiting in the wings. However if Camarillo wins a starting job then my point is moot. Actually I believe you're right. You've changed my line of thinking here. We'd probably put Nalbone or Bronson on the PS before we cut Martin. Georgia Tech had the third best rushing offense last season. Gardner was a big part of that. He's looking good. I don't know what is going to happen with Shawn Murphy but I do remember his scouting report from two years ago said that if a team is patient with him he could pay dividends. Starks is a stud. No doubt. I have no problem with him getting the start instead of Merling. Both will see significant time. Actually the surprising thing is that Langford got the start ahead of Merling last year. I apologize again. What I meant was OC's will gameplan for JT. So it would seem odd for JT to be a backup because offensive coordinators generally don't gameplan for backups. You may be making too much of one play. You put JT and JP in there for the first play of the game and they both get the start. That's all it would take. They might never be on the field at the same time again. Did you see how Atlanta used John Abraham last season? He got less snaps but he was more effective because he was fresh. I wouldn't be surprised if we used JT the same way. Sparano is a big fan of tracking players' snap counts in an effort to keep them from getting tired. FWIW Abraham was a starter even though he was probably used more as a situational pass rusher like you're talking about. I agree that Roth is an excellent run defender. However his pass rushing skills leave a bit to be desired and the triumvirate puts a high premium on players who can put pressure on the QB. That's why Roth probably won't get the start. However I do believe he will often be in the game on 1st and 2nd down. The one thing we're not taking into consideration here is how Cameron Wake and Tearrius George might be against the run. We know they both have had a lot of success rushing the QB but if either of them are equally effective at stopping the run then Roth might be in trouble. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on Ireland's post draft comments but he didn't mention Moses. He did make a point of mentioning George though. Take that for what its worth. Folsom was the fifth pick in the 7th round. That means he was much closer to being a 6th rounder than an undrafted free agent. That's a big reason why several fans were confounded by the pick. Very few knew who he was and felt we wasted a high 7th round pick. If we drafted him with the intention to add an impact player on special teams then he'll have to take somebody's spot. My guess would be Kershaw because Torbor is a solid backup for both Crowder and Ayodele. Troy Vincent started 14 games his rookie season. Darrelle Revis started all 16 games his rookie season. Tracy Porter was starting for New Orleans before he got hurt last season. There are exceptions to the rule and I would bet you any amount of money that Green will not be the starter on opening day. He might not even stick. Special teams play and maybe salary too. I would be shocked if Bryan stuck and Clemons did not. I hear you. Thanks for all your insight. Its a pleasure debating with somebody who knows their stuff.
lol well if he is that low on your Depth Chart I see him getting cut pretty soon...so you guys can pay him and we'll sign him to something low Did you guys just draft Jason Allen with a 1st round pick like a year or two ago and now he is fighting for a Roster spot?
Like I said I don't believe he will be cut. However the only two wideouts who are virtually guaranteed a roster spot are Ted Ginn and Patrick Turner. The minute we drafted Turner, Ernest Wilford's days were numbered. The Hartline pick really clouds matters. He could replace Camarillo but if he doesn't then what? Do they both stick? If Camarillo and Hartline both make the roster that only leaves one spot for Bess. Then Bess would have to beat out Brandon London, Anthony Armstrong, Brennan Marion, and Todd Lowber. Very possible and maybe even likely. However there's a small chance one of those guys beat out Bess. London is a very good special teams player, Armstrong has been getting better and better showing flashes of excellence, Lowber is a freakish athlete who spent the last year learning how to become a wideout, and Marion is a darkhorse. If Bess and Hartline both stick then its possible that Camarillo is cut. However he was our most productive wideout last season. Would we really cut a guy like that? Our wideout corps is anything but cut and dry.
I believe he will be cut but I doubt the Jaguars will re-sign him. Not after they picked up Torry Holt and drafted Mike Thomas and Jarett Dillard. Wilford might catch on with another team though. There was a little chatter that he wasn't 100% healthy last season.
im pretty sure Cammy has alot more to worry about than Bess. Hartline and Cammy are very similar and Greg is coming off a major knee injury.
If we could cut him NOW we would but that would count a hefty amount on our salary cap....trust me he is not here because he should be. He is a lazy POS.
I really hope when Camp starts we have like 5 WR's just really stand-out and make it an easy decision for the coaches. I would hate for them to all be able the same and make the coaches do a toss up decision.
Do you know where I could see some of his statistical breakdowns for free? I seached his name on-line and I think you have to pay for it. I am a statistical junkie and love read and analyze stuff like that. Thanks in advance!
When he's best healthy Camarillo is our best receiver. Ginn had better numbers for the season but only because Camarillo was out. However we're so glutted with wide receivers that I could see us trading him. Ginn is coming into his 3rd year. Bess played really well for us last year and we have a ton of prospects. If enough of them look good in camp Camarillo becomes expendable and might be more valuable as trade bait.
I don't see Bess being on any kind of bubble. As of right now he's the starter and he even outperformed Cam once he got in. And while a third rounder is generally (not always) assured a roster spot, there's no way he's more secure than a 2nd year WR who averaged 5-6 receptions per game (once he started), plays STs, has had no injuries and is on a cheap UDFA contract.
Wow, you really think Gardner is a lock to make the roster ?? I'd say he's in the battle with every other OT to make this squad save for Long and Carey... I also don't think JT will be the starting OLB....they will want to use him on about 40% of the plays so that he can be reserved for later in the year...I even see Porter getting some pine time earlier in the year as well.... Turner is a lock to make the squad, but proven players like Bess and Cammy aren't ?? With both Ricky and Ronnie set to be FAs next year, you really think Cobb is fighting for a spot ?? 3 running backs are customary with this regime...Hilliard and Kimble haven't done a thing to impress anyone to this point, I don't get that logic... I also see Torbor on the proverbial bubble as well. Given his salary, age and performance so far here, Walden has just as good a shot imo...he only lacks experience to Torbor... Tell me Red, is this your opinion or someone else's that you found?? It's not a big deal, I was just wondering your source...if it is your opinion, it's not bad, but there are a few (above) I might argue with...
i dont agree with your projection of bess as it pertains to his roster spot. Ginn and bess are locks, cammy's staus is more uncertain then bess cause of his knee. after ginn and bess the rest is pure competition. Ginn, Bess, Cammy, Turner, London, and hartline because his versatility, i think we go with those guys and try to hide hartline on the roster.
You said it yourself. When healthy Camarillo was arguably our best wideout last year. So why would he become expendable and not Bess? Prior to the draft there was a general consensus that we needed to pick a wideout or two. Not one analyst said the Dolphins are all set with Ginn and Bess.
Georgia Tech was third in the NCAA in rushing yardage dude. That's third as in 3 out of over 100 teams. Gardner knows how to run block. He's got size, smarts, a high motor, and upside. Plus he's a hard worker. What more do you want in a backup offensive lineman? We'll see. I've heard the chatter that JT will have to earn his roster spot and he's not guaranteed the starting job. I'll believe it when I see it. I'll tell you this. If JT does have to earn it I wouldn't be surprised if he does just that. Why does experience work in Bess and Camarillo's favor but not Torbor's? I thought about it and Cobbs is probably safe but then why even bother bringing guys like Hilliard and Kimble to camp? So I finally decided if they're going to compete let them compete. I was still a fan in 2007 when Ronnie, Ricky, and Jesse Chatman went down. Cobbs was not the answer. He has his role to play but he is far from irreplaceable. That being said I would be surprised if Hilliard or Kimble took his place. However you never know. We lose Hilliard if he doesn't stick. We can't put him on the PS again. We really don't know what to expect from him because he's had a year to learn and develop but we haven't seen him play. Plus he much bigger than Cobbs and you know how Parcells and Ireland value size. Kimble is a longshot but he can return kicks as well which gives him added value. However he is eligible for the PS and that's probably where he'll end up. Its my opinion dude. Why would I post somebody else's opinion?
Its a numbers game. We always carry five wideouts. Ginn is a lock. Can anybody remember the last time our 3rd and 4th round picks didn't stick? So Turner and Hartline are both probably a lock as well. That leaves two spots for Camarillo and Bess. So even though some of these responses make it sound like I don't believe Bess and Camarillo will stick my guess for who makes the cut would be Ginn, Turner, Camarillo, Bess, and Hartline. However we all know there are always surprises. Did anybody expect us to cut Derek Hagan last year? If there's a surprise this year it will probably involve Camarillo or Bess. Camarillo signed a contract extension last year. Bess did not. However Hartline seems like more of a threat to Camarillo. Because of those factors I believe it would be a mistake to consider both of them safe at this point.
that stats Muck mentioned most likely came from this: http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=31395&highlight=joyner this was a radio show that Joyner did and talked specifically about a lot of fins metrics. check it out i think you'll like it
As to Torbor, my thinking is that because of his performance here so far, which, at best, has been spotty, he'd be on the bubble...I was just asking if you had seen this in another article somewhere, like one of the blogs or whatever...I think you make some good points... It will be interesting to see who is going to be this years' Davon Bess or Donald Thomas...the guy that comes from nowhere and has an impact...
I agree on Gardner, in fact - i will go so far as to say that he 'could' push Carey at RT, based off of Carey's performance last year. Not saying he will win, but i see him as our #1 back-up T. I really like Camarillo, but believe Bess really showed potential last year ... if it comes down to those 2 for a spot --- today, i would go with Bess. Turner only has out perform London and Wilford. Hartline has a more difficult challenge. Marion will probably be put on IR and get ready for next year. barring some great performances at TC, i would say that at LB: JP, JT, and CC were guaranteed roster spots. Roth could help himself considerably, depending on his weight ... Ayodele is on thin ice ... but its thicker than Torbor's. The young guys will be given a great opportunity. our depth at OL should be better this year .... and on the DL we are already decent. i don't see Cobbs going anywhere - unless, White is viewed as an alternative (not as a RB mind you) ... but in the WP and 'change of pace' ... so, Hilliard or Kimble would definately be the 'heir' to the #2 RB for next year. it would be disappointing if neither Smith or Davis wins the CB job opposite Allen, as i see both starting in '10. i think Green will do well in the nickel. Martin did play better than expected last year ... but he is not safe ... we'll see what progress Haynos made, and whether Nalbone is ready this year to contribute. If Haynos is ready -- then Martin could very well be trade bait. Camp trade bait (veterans): Carey (not likely -- but possible, as well as in '10) Camarillo, London, Wilford, and depending on Marion and some others (Ginn in '10) Martin Cobbs Soliai, Wright Roth, Ayodele, Torbor, Anderson, Moses J. Allen, These are merely players with experience, who might present some value to other teams due to injury, etc ... but also who might be out of a job post TC, dependant upon players growth or rookies potential.
I wouldn't go that far. That's a tough choice. Camarillo is very underrated. He always seems to find a way to get open. True. You mean the PS? We can't put Marion on IR unless he's injured. At this point in the offseason we're not going find anybody better than Ayodele or Torbor. I believe its safe to say both of their roster spots are guaranteed. For 2009 at least. At OLB you forgot about Cameron Wake. We don't know if he can be as good in the NFL as he was in the CFL. However he should make the roster. Plus Roth is probably safe. Although you never know. We're better than decent on the DL and you're right on about the OL. Yeah, Cobbs is probably safe. However like Roth you never know. Those are definitely two to keep an eye on. I couldn't agree more. I could see us trading Martin. I wonder what another team would offer. Disagree on Carey, Ayodele, and Torbor. They're not trade bait. Not this year anyway. Camarillo could be if they believe Hartline is good enough to replace him. I doubt we would even get a 7th round pick for London, Wilford, Anderson, or Moses. Its possible we could get a draft pick for Cobbs, Soliai, Wright, Roth, or Jason Allen. However we won't know if any of them are trade bait until the preseason is under way.
I do think Gardner has real potential ... and i don't think the FO was especially pleased with Carey's performance last year ... it would be a very long shot -- and not likely, this year ... but i do see him as a strong candidate next year, depending upon his progress and Carey's performance this year. Marion coming off the injury, somehow 'might' be able to go on IR, if he can't play this year -- this kid 'could' prove a threat to Ginn once he is fully recovered and healthy, but i don't see this until next year. I don't view Wake as a 'lock' ... but do view him as the wildcard, as his progress will determine several other players futures during TC. ILB was the most disappointing position coming off the draft and FA, since we did not invest much into it ... we added options at OLB, a la JT and Wake ... but did not improve on the inside. Knowing that Crowder is only average, and Ayodele is less -- well, not much to say, except - i guess you have to have a weakness somewhere .... 'trade bait' was probably the wrong term ... but i do view these as potential expendable pieces, that 'could' bring some picks next year -- especially, if another teams injuries make some moves a necessity. i don't think we are looking to jettison anyone not named Wilford, as the FO views this as a talented group that 'can' go further than just make the playoffs - if all goes well.
I agree. We still need to address ILB position. I'm not sure if its a weakness but we could definitely upgrade there. Plus we are very thin at NT as well as Center. We definitely need Ferguson and Grove to stay healthy in order for us to have a successful season in 2009.
agreed, we are woefully thin at all 3 positions: C (most thin), ILB (more thin), NT (Thin) as we do have some bodies that we could throw at NT ... but there would be huge drop-offs at C & ILB ...
