Practice notes wk #13, Henne showing something

"Merauder wrote:

Maybe the benching did more good than harm afterall. It seems to have lit a fire under him. We all know he is a very capable QB. Last game I saw a QB who learned from some of his mistakes, throwing touch passes with more precision, and firing the ball without second guessing himself. If he can continue to do that, I like our chances down the stretch. I'm predicting that the Jets lose 4 or 5 in a row, and Miami sneaks in to snatch the Wild Card from them. Leaving the Jets out of the playoffs. Nothings impossible.

i agree. the benching was needed to snap him out of his funk. It took alot of balls from this coaching staff and you could see they tried to avoid it for as long as they could but in the end he needed the slap in the face to realize that being scared to make mistakes means you will be scared to make plays and we didnt draft you to play scared

Scared money don't make money.

OmarKelly Omar Kelly
Mike Nolan said he used Jason Sehorn in a similar role as Sean Smith, who plays on boundary then plays safety in the nickel

...

"schmolioot wrote:

Let's not go nuts. Peyton is so incredibly special its unfair to expect pretty much anyone to reach that level. Only Brady is really on his level right now.

Well it did take Brady about 5 or 6 years to become the Brady he is now, and it's plausible to say that if they were playing together at Michigan, Tom might've been sitting the bench behind Chad. Brady wasn't a heralded #1 overall pick either, so I don't think Henne can be completely excluded from similar potential.

"unluckyluciano wrote:

Henne has gone from

to

I like the 1st Henne better...... He looks like he's a "breast" guy. Just a hunch. :shifty:

"vt_dolfan wrote:

No....I would disagree....its not a difference in Brains....

Its more a difference in creativity.....Peyton Manning really takes an artists approach to how he plays football. Its actually why he's a pretty damned good commercial actor....he's a very creative person.

Henne is more black and white.....do this, practice that, and with the right Offensive Co....who brings the creative approach to his practice and QB'ng....Henne will be a very good QB.

But he wont be a Peyton Manning....Peyton will fake the crap out of an opponent when he see's a weakness he thinks outside of the box on his own, on how to do it. Henne just doesnt think like that.....he needs an OC to do that.

So this is how I see it......

Henne + Creative OC = or may = something resembling Peyton Manning, where as Peyton Manning is the QB and the creative OC all in one.

If you wanted to ever find a QB who had the best chance of being a Peyton Manning ... it would have been a fusion of Chad Henne and Chad Pennington.

I agree that Peyton has a level of creativity considerably above what Henne currently has, but I see that as a product of experience and practice. The analogy I draw is from martial arts. There is a big difference between knowing how to punch and kick and being good in a fight. You'll often see martial arts students who are good at techniques but not good in a fight. Likewise you'll see people who are good fighters but are not great at technique. They are naturally creative. That martial arts student with good technique just needs to continue to practice and gain fighting experience to become a good fighter. I see Peyton as that type. He had great technique coming in but needed to continue to work and gain experience. Eventually, he was able to not be a slave to his technique and be creative. That was when he became a great player.

Nice to hear about those passes in practice, let's hope it can be re-produced on Sunday.

The one area Henne didn't show improvement against Oakland was in the red zone... the two TD passes, both very good plays, were longer YAC plays. Those plays need to continue as well, go for the throat when in opponents territory.

Getting inside the 20 needs to end with seven points. Whether it's on Henne's arm or Ricky & Ronnie's legs. That alone can improve our offensive output from 10-25 points to 25-40 points.

"padre31 wrote:

Hmm an "s" in practice and a "c" for Offence?

:D

A player sometimes has sign posts they pass on their maturation as professionals, and throwing fades over 6'4 Sean Smith to me is one of them, Smith's wingspan is amazing so Henne must be feeling it to put the ball in there successfully.

Now if he could just do the patented Rich Gannon look right and pump fake then throw back to the left, the Defense will collectively shat on themselves if he pulls it off.

I agree with you. It's not that he's completed a successful fade in practice over SS; it's that he's completed 3 successful fades in a short time frame. We all have those moments where we go from not being good at something to where, after lots of repetition, it all of a sudden clicks. I remember having a few of those moments when I was a QB (granted it was in JV & high school but it still happens the same way IMO). Henne could've very well experienced the same thing with his fades. I sure hope so!!!

"rafael wrote:

I agree that Peyton has a level of creativity considerably above what Henne currently has, but I see that as a product of experience and practice. The analogy I draw is from martial arts. There is a big difference between knowing how to punch and kick and being good in a fight. You'll often see martial arts students who are good at techniques but not good in a fight. Likewise you'll see people who are good fighters but are not great at technique. They are naturally creative. That martial arts student with good technique just needs to continue to practice and gain fighting experience to become a good fighter. I see Peyton as that type. He had great technique coming in but needed to continue to work and gain experience. Eventually, he was able to not be a slave to his technique and be creative. That was when he became a great player.

my boy is an orange belt, 7 years old, looks good goin thru his stages and technique, gets his butt kicked when he spars, lol..wonder when its the right time to show a 7 year old his first bruce lee movie?

"Merauder wrote:

Maybe the benching did more good than harm afterall. It seems to have lit a fire under him. We all know he is a very capable QB. Last game I saw a QB who learned from some of his mistakes, throwing touch passes with more precision, and firing the ball without second guessing himself. If he can continue to do that, I like our chances down the stretch. I'm predicting that the Jets lose 4 or 5 in a row, and Miami sneaks in to snatch the Wild Card from them. Leaving the Jets out of the playoffs. Nothings impossible.

Mehhhhh...... the ole sneak a snatch triiiiiick! :groucho:

"rafael wrote:

I disagree in this instance and on a general principal. All the research on intelligence and success basically finds that once you have enough intelligence, success is determined by work not additional intelligence. As an example if you have two nuclear scientists and one has an IQ of 80 and the other has an IQ of 160 you will probably have a big difference in their success levels. But once you get above say the 130 IQ level then additional intelligence above that has little baring on success. The more successful one (between the 160 IQ person and the 130 IQ person) will be determined by the guy who works harder. In Peyton's case I think he's smart but not necessarily smarter than most NFL QBs. I think he knows the game better than most any QB out there though. The reason for that is his level of work, not his intelligence. I don't have any reason to believe that Henne isn't as intelligent as most NFL QBs. So if Henne has enough intelligence, the determining factor for his success will be how hard he works.

I have no doubt of Henne's work ethic, intelligence, or his talent. IMO, a QB is made in overcoming adversity. Henne showed me a lot in how he came back from being benched, as well as being blasted by Sparano.

His next step is leading his team to a 4th quarter comeback for a big win. IMO, that is the missing piece.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

No....I would disagree....its not a difference in Brains....

Its more a difference in creativity.....Peyton Manning really takes an artists approach to how he plays football. Its actually why he's a pretty damned good commercial actor....he's a very creative person.

Henne is more black and white.....do this, practice that, and with the right Offensive Co....who brings the creative approach to his practice and QB'ng....Henne will be a very good QB.

But he wont be a Peyton Manning....Peyton will fake the crap out of an opponent when he see's a weakness he thinks outside of the box on his own, on how to do it. Henne just doesnt think like that.....he needs an OC to do that.

So this is how I see it......

Henne + Creative OC = or may = something resembling Peyton Manning, where as Peyton Manning is the QB and the creative OC all in one.

If you wanted to ever find a QB who had the best chance of being a Peyton Manning ... it would have been a fusion of Chad Henne and Chad Pennington.

To be fair, we're not going to be seeing how creative or "non" creative Henne actually is until the game has entirely slowed down for him. He's still consciously trying to make sure he does A & B correctly, so he doesn't really have time or the mental ability to worry about C & D until A & B become 2nd nature IMO.

"djphinfan wrote:

my boy is an orange belt, 7 years old, looks good goin thru his stages and technique, gets his butt kicked when he spars, lol..wonder when its the right time to show a 7 year old his first bruce lee movie?

Has he surprise kicked you in the biscuits yet? :lol:

"djphinfan wrote:

my boy is an orange belt, 7 years old, looks good goin thru his stages and technique, gets his butt kicked when he spars, lol..wonder when its the right time to show a 7 year old his first bruce lee movie?

I have a 10 year old who is a purple belt. He's been watching Bruce Lee movies since he was 6. I thought he would complain about the cinematic quality (newer movies just look slicker), but he picks them out to watch on his own.

My son is actually awesome at sparring, but I don't know if he would be good in a fight. That's a big step. Right now he's basically good at tag. His technique hasn't reached that level where he can make enough of those "tags" really hurt someone if he needed to. Once you develop that ability, you can reasonably defend yourself against bigger opponents and multiple opponents.

"Southbeach wrote:

I have no doubt of Henne's work ethic, intelligence, or his talent. IMO, a QB is made in overcoming adversity. Henne showed me a lot in how he came back from being benched, as well as being blasted by Sparano.

His next step is leading his team to a 4th quarter comeback for a big win. IMO, that is the missing piece.

That...... and a defining win where he takes control from the beginning and never lets up...... throwing for 300+ yards and 4 TDs (with at least 2 of those coming from the throw itself). The Jets loss was close to that IMO.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

That...... and a defining win where he takes control from the beginning and never lets up...... throwing for 300+ yards and 4 TDs (with at least 2 of those coming from the throw itself). The Jets loss was close to that IMO.

Henne does look to be close but, has to put a couple of these type games under his belt to move on, and for our team to do the same.

"Southbeach wrote:

I have no doubt of Henne's work ethic, intelligence, or his talent. IMO, a QB is made in overcoming adversity. Henne showed me a lot in how he came back from being benched, as well as being blasted by Sparano.

His next step is leading his team to a 4th quarter comeback for a big win. IMO, that is the missing piece.

Like NYJ, Tampa, and Pats last year?

Unless those weren't big enough.

"Stitches wrote:

Like NYJ, Tampa, and Pats last year?

Unless those weren't big enough.

They were some VG wins, and Henne was impressive. I was talking about one of those must win games. You know what I'm talking about, a pressure packed elimination game, a win or miss the playoff game or, more better, a playoff game.

"rafael wrote:

Henne has always struggled throwing the fade. Throughout TC and then early in the season he mentioned how difficult of a throw it was for him. If he's getting that down it could improve our redzone offense significantly. That's the thing about Henne. He's not great in some areas, but he's such a hard worker that I can never say he won't eventually improve them. I never thought that he'd get his completion percentage above 62%, but he's proven me wrong. I've also seen clear improvement in his touch, his pocket sense, not staring down receivers and his progressions. He even is showing improvement in his play action fakes. He's still inconsistent, but that's a step up from when all the fakes were bad. I've contended that Henne's upside was an Eli Manning level QB, that he could not potentially reach a Peyton Manning level. But if he continues to improve each area, there is nothing that physically prevents him from being Peyton. I really hope he proves my evaluation of his upside wrong and he reaches that Peyton level.

When have you seen improvement in his play fakes? Surely not against Oakland. Those were the worst, most half-hearted play fakes I've ever seen him execute. They were positively Marino-esque.

That pass to Cobbs was a nice "up and down" throw as Sparano called it. He's always struggled with his touch. Maybe he's getting better at those throws.

If only he had marino's quick release, Payton's mental approach, Farve's arm strength and Vicks ability to run the ball... THEN we would have something... ;)

"ckparrothead wrote:

When have you seen improvement in his play fakes? Surely not against Oakland. Those were the worst, most half-hearted play fakes I've ever seen him execute. They were positively Marino-esque.

That pass to Cobbs was a nice "up and down" throw as Sparano called it. He's always struggled with his touch. Maybe he's getting better at those throws.

On a different note, is it just me or do his back-shoulder throws seem like one of his passing strengths?

just one no0te on play action. a successful play action play doesnt just require the QB to be an actor. It requires the offensive line and running back to also sell it. good linebackers and DBs tend to make their reads off the offensive line not the QB

"ckparrothead wrote:

When have you seen improvement in his play fakes? Surely not against Oakland. Those were the worst, most half-hearted play fakes I've ever seen him execute. They were positively Marino-esque.

That pass to Cobbs was a nice "up and down" throw as Sparano called it. He's always struggled with his touch. Maybe he's getting better at those throws.

Henne was doing a Marino impersonation, knee brace and all. The play fakes were part of it. Give the guy a frakin beak. He got fully into the character he was playing. JK/LOL.

On a serious note, I did see much better play fakes a few weeks ago. I think it was the Titan's game.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

Here you go.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

On a different note, is it just me or do his back-shoulder throws seem like one of his passing strengths?

They became a strength during the Oakland game. He had a few of them and they were really well thrown.