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POLL Gase's fate with 5-11 season.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rickysabeast, Nov 25, 2017.

If we finish 5-11 or worse. Do you fire Gase at the end of the season?

  1. Yes.

    19.4%
  2. No.

    73.6%
  3. Fire Tannenbum too

    25.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he should’ve held onto Ajayi and had a non-cokehead OL coach to carry him to 10-6 again.
     
  2. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    People who think Gase should be fired after this season must not have any idea how success is sustained in the NFL. It's not by constant turnover of your coaching staff. You don't go for the nuclear option with a 39 year old coach who lost his QB before the season started. That's completely ridiculous to be honest. As is the idea that a second year head coach would do everything perfectly having practically everything but the kitchen sink thrown at him this season. He's a smart guy with a great reputation in the league. It's pretty clear he impressed the hell out of Ross when he landed the job. Give him a chance to learn and put his team together and just maybe something good will happen. Or the franchise can keep flailing around like it has been for the past 15 years or so. Hoping they win the powerball and find that coach who never loses and instantly turns the franchise into a powerhouse. I'm sure that guy is sitting at the house waiting for Ross to call him in January.
     
  3. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ajayi is fool's gold.
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Well.. right now it's not looking good for sure!

    I think W/L record is the most important stat for coaches, but on rare occasion one has to look past that. Best example is Wannstedt. The guy had 11-5, 11-5, 9-7, 10-6 seasons before a 1-8 season for us. Winning coach for the Dolphins yeah, but he sure helped destroy the foundation of the team he inherited with bad personnel moves!
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    He said, "The oline has not been THE PROBLEM this year". I'm guessing he meant they're not the #1 problem, the main problem, or however someone else may want to phrase it.

    Today, the offensive line was a huge part of the problem. Over the past 10 games before that though, the line has performed fairly well. The main problem in those games were penalties killing drives or extending drives for competitors (admittedly, a lot of those penalties were on the line).

    But even bigger than that, the main problem is that we don't have our franchise QB on the field. The 2nd biggest problem is that people like Cutler, Ajayi, Parker and others still don't know the playbook. The 3rd biggest problem is our young corners who tend to give up 3-5 deep passes per game....or take penalties that have the same effect. The 4th biggest problem is probably special teams- we haven't had a big play all year in any phase of the game (other than tackling).

    Maybe the line is our 5th or 6th biggest problem, but they don't even make the top 3 issues on offense. Fin D is correct in what he's saying.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  6. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    let me guess, ricky is me and I am canez. dude, do you know what you type? everyone is on to you
     
  7. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    I believe he said the line wasn't an issue lol
     
  8. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    how is the line not the biggest issue? we can't do anything with these clowns. We even punted on 4th and 2 inches.
     
  9. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    guess what? teams are losing players left and right. MN lost their qb and their rb. how are they doing?
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Seriously, dude, what the hell are you talking about?
     
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  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Your powers of observation seem to be lacking this season. Today was the first game where the line was the biggest issue. How you can even compare that to losing your starting QB is mind-boggling.
     
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  12. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    c02mrw.jpg
     
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  13. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Two things:

    1). The OL has absolutely been one of the top 2 problems on this team this year. Tunsil hasn’t been as advertised, Pouncey and Bushrod are ready for the retirement community in Boca, and James was our best OL this year and is done for the year I believe. Jesse Davis and Brendel haven’t been awful but I’d like them better as backups or at the very least, be more confident if they were my 5th best starters. Larsen being back will help....he’s not exceptional but he’s a viable starter at either RG or Center as needed. This team needs to look at Billy Price, Frank Ragnow and others early in the draft or create the cap space necessary to sign quality Fa’s. This cannot be ignored and doing so is rather criminal. Which leads in to my 2nd point....

    2). Tannenbaum sucks. He sucked in Ny and he sucks here. There is no option for “Keep Gase, fire Tannenbaum” because that is what needs to happen. Adam Gase is a good coach but this roster just isn’t very talented and even Bill Belichick and Bill Walsh can’t turn poop in to gold without Tom Brady and Joe Montana and since we have Jay Cutler/Matt Moore we really don’t have crap at that position as far as viable starters go.

    When you look at the roster objectively, you see that the QB position is filled with 1 pretty good option who will be coming off 20 straight games missed by next years opening game, and 2 backup quality players. Moore is a fine backup, as good as it gets really, and he’s being pressed in to starters duty because Cutler belongs retired. If you have 3 QBs, you really have none. Im ok with Drake at RB and Williams as the pass catching back but you better add a big back this offseason...our old friend Orleans Darkwa wouldn’t be bad as he’s a FA and could be inexpensive. Stills is ok but overpaid. Parker’s been a disappointment and Landry does as much as you can ask one player with slightly better then pedestrian speed to do. And TE we keep trying for older retreads and they all end up being either one dimensional as both Fasano and Thomas are or just vegetables like Cameron was. And as I mentioned the OL sucks, in part because Tannenbaum completely misplayed the free agent guard market and neglected the OL the last few drafts.

    Defensively, Timmons looks washed up or at best overpaid for what he can offer. The DL looks ok but we’ve effectively wasted Wake’s best years and so pass rushers are still a need and that’s probably the second most important position on the team after qb imo. So we’ve established that we need a QB and pass rushers and an OL....three things absolutely essential to winning games. Alonso and Branch were handed a big contracts based on what they did last year but neither has really fulfilled expectations and lived up to those contracts. In Alonso’s case I’d argue at least part of that is scheme based since Burkes scheme sucks, but he’s also not been as effective as he was last year. The corners, except for McCain, have regressed this year although Tankersley hasn’t been badas a rookie. Xavien Howard couldn’t stop a receiver if he had a gun. I’m not ready to give up on him, but he’s been as bad as anyone on this defense. Lastly while I like T.J. and Reshad Jones, they haven’t lived up to the 80M plus in extensions they received (combined). I love Reshad but this hasn’t been his best year and giving a 3rd contract player that much and that many years is inexplicable. If you pay attention that’s something teams like Pittsburgh, NE, and GB never do. Thats one of the reasons theyre always good...proper cap management. And T.J. can be good in a scheme that fits (I.e. in the box) but we aren’t using him that way.

    The reason I went through all that is because it’s almost the exact same things we were complaining about 2 years ago when this regime took over. It hasn’t been fixed. In the NFL the GM essentially works for the coach. The GM is supposed to get the ingredients and the coach is the chef who is supposed to do something with them. But even Gordon Ramsey can’t cook the meal without the right ingredients and right now they’re still missing. That’s a GM issue, not a coach issue.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  14. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    So any of the 42 that voted no before that craptacular outing yesterday want to change their votes? I think T-Bum needs to go to but now it seems that it's easier to load all the blame on him and act like Gase is doing his best. We've been through this multiple times.

    Did firing Irish make Philbin better?
    Was Spielman responsible for Wannstedt sucking?
    Now T-bum and Gase are inexorably linked.

    As for Gase and exactly how he sucks as a head coach and should be fired lets do bulletpoints to help some of you get it. Yes, many of these are ALSO T-bum issues so he should get fired TOO:

    • Sucks as an OC which is the reason why he got hired as a coach to begin with along with his legendary QB whispering abilities that seem to make sucky QB's even suckier from when I've witnessed this year.
    • Sucks at Head Coaching and being in charge of other coaches: Put Burke as DC who failed at his job last year.
    • Sucks at decision making that goes along with being Head Coach: Not making Tannehill have surgery.
    • Sucks at decision making that goes along with being Head Coach: Not having a QB backup plan going into pre-season when you know T-Hill has a bum knee.
    • Sucks at getting his team ready and making sure they understand their assignments. How many offensive penalties have there been this year and how many missed assignments? If Gase is going to play OC then that's on him. Supposed to be an expert OC meanwhile looks like a rank amateur at it.
    • Sucks at demonstrating the level of professionalism expected of anNFL HC. Acts like Emo jerkwad in the press conference. You ain't Bellicik chump. Lose the 'tude.
     
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  15. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Seeing how Speight's said he's transferring is that a sign harbaugh is leaving?
     
  16. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    so he just sucks!!!!! only need 1 bullet point to have me convinced hahah
     
  17. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    No. Harbaugh is not leaving and will not be fired. It will not happen.
     
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  18. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    didn't think so either!!!
     
  19. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much how I look at it is like this, mike zimmer lost his 2 starting qb's and is still excelling, Gb lost Rodgers and they have brought Hundley in and he looked very good last night. The point about gase is he had plenty of time to get ready and the team to be ready going into the season to face the pats in the 12th week of the year he hasn't the team has not played any better that all falls on the coach.
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    We didn't replace Irish with anything worth mentioning. Philbin also clearly lost the players and was just meh.

    Wannstedt sucked balls before he coached in Miami. And again, Spielman wasn't replaced with anyone better.

    Tannenbaum and Gase are not linked. You can easily fire one and not the other. I think TBaum has enough mulligans and mistakes to show he is not the man to have in place - his biggest problem with the Jests was giving bloated contracts to players that were not going to live up to them ... and he has started doing the same thing here. Time to move on from that garbage.

    Gase on the other hand has one excellent year, and one bad year. How much did circumstance play in both? Assuming an average number of lucky breaks (good and bad) as opposed to this year (all bad), can we expect to move back toward the mean, plus make a jump based on a potentially easier schedule, another year of coaching experience and potentially better personnel/better QB? I would say yes.

    And again raises the question of who would be better? I just don't really see anyone that is a clear upgrade that will be available. Roll the dice with a Sean McVay, or do you get Vance Joseph?

    The biggest factors in firing Gase do not rest with the record. First, can he keep the team playing hard and competing? Against the Panthers I wasn't sure. Against the Pats this weekend, yes, despite the score. I would like to see at least 2 more victories. No reason we can't split the Bills, and I think we can take one of two against the Chiefs/Broncos. Two, is there a clear upgrade? I say no. Three, are we 100% sure he won't take what he has learned to another team (Jests) and use it against us/turn into a good coach? I am not. Someone in another thread mentioned learning curve. Gase is young, he is a first time coach. There WILL be growing pains. Anyone expecting instant incarnation of BB2.0 was deluding themselves. We are barely at the start of the learning curve. Unless we (and by we I mean people within the organization) are convinced that THIS part of the curve is his apex, we would be fools to let him go.

    Anyone wanting to fire Gase at this point is simply falling prey to knee jerk reactions and not really thinking things through.
     
  21. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Are you saying Miami didn't have a backup QB going into the preaseason? I'm just wondering what you thought he should have done before Tannehill's knee went out. Should he have just cut Tannehill and known ahead of time the knee problem was inevitable? You must have known all along this would happen.

    Also this list is just you whining about the Dolphins not being good this season rather than any actual evidence of coaching deficiencies. By this logic about 20 head coaches suck enough every NFL season to be fired. If they didn't make the playoffs then clearly they suck at calling offense and defense and leading players. If you ain't first you're last!!!
     
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  22. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying he had no influence on the Ajayi trade?
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, the vote is now at 49...so I'm guessing that's a "No".
     
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  24. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No.

    It's a sign that Speight saw the writing on the wall that he's not going to play at Michigan next year because O'Korn is back (I believe), Brandon Peters is likely getting the starting role next year, unless McCaffery is ready to go after being red-shirted this year. Speight is simply the under talented, odd man out in a crowded QB room at Michigan.

    If Harbaugh ends up leaving Michigan (which I doubt), Speights decision isn't based on it. IIRC, Speight I think was able to play down the stretch, but they rolled with Peters and Okorn, and as I said, McCaffery (Ed's kid, Christian's(Carolina Panthers) brother IIRC) is their heir apparent at QB in Ann Arbor.
     
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  25. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    The age thing is a big part of it. In this thread someone compared Gase (39) to both Mike Zimmer (61) and Mike McCarthy (54). Consider for a moment how much longer those guys have been coaching football. They have 22 and 15 years more of experience, respectively.

    I'm not saying you give Gase the better part of a decade but come on.
     
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  26. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    I'm no Tannenbaum fan but to say he destroyed the team is a stretch. To be fair, we never had much of a team before he came on board.
     
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  27. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    According to the logic of several people on this board, Zimmer probably should have been fired last year ...
    McCarthy this one ...
     
  28. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I think he was tainted goods from the Jests - nothing but massive and immediate success would have gotten people on board. His issue seems to be that he can't stop giving big contracts to middling players. He helped build the Jests into a solid team, but instead of making tough choices, he traded away picks and signed people to unwarranted deals. We see it here as well - Stills, Branch, etc.

    I would not be upset with him being scapegoated, I don't really think he brings much to the table. He's made out to be worse than he is, but he isn't good by any stretch.
     
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  29. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    I cant speak for Fin D, but im going to say not only did he have influence on the Ajayi trade but he was justified.

    Facts below....
    1. Ajayi cursed him out and insisted on calling the running plays.
    2. Ajayi was selfish and was disciplined for it. He was left home for game 1 last year because of it and was seen sulking during Stills TD catch vs the Jets that tied the score at 28. More on this in a minute...
    3. Ajayi didnt pick up the offense and continuously missed assignments. You can see this play out many times but the most stunning example comes in the 2nd Jet game where Moore actually puts him in the right place and he still misses the assignment and his guy sacks Moore. It was in the 2nd quarter on the drive where Moore got picked off.
    4. Ajayis already sulking in Philly after getting only 5 carries in a 31-3 win. Unreal.

    Hes got talent but man, what a baby! In the games since we traded him we may be 0-4 but its because of defensive regression as the offense has been much better then they were.
     
  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    We werent talented when he took over and all hes done to improve it is Suh and Stills both of whom he gave massive deals to. Hes just not a very good football guy. Neither is Greir frankly. Why Ross likes them so much is beyond me.

    Gase should be picking his personel guy to buy the groceries...
     
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  31. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    :thumbup:
     
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  32. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Evidence on #4 out of curiosity?

    EDIT: Nvm, saw the other thread! :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  33. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    All right. I brought this up in another thread. But this is at least the third time that I have become aware of in the last week that a poster has agreed with Fin D. WTF is going on over? Next thing you know we'll have equal rights for women, people from countries we can't pronounce the names of becoming citizens, people being allowed to believe in ghosts.

    STOP THE MADNESS!!!
     
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  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Fin D is really passionate, and on a forum where you can't see the other person's body language, sometimes that passion looks like hatred or disrespect when it's really not. We moved past that a few months ago though and I realized, hey...I agree with the guy on just about everything these days.

    There's another side to that as well though, and a lot of folks here treat him like crap on a daily basis. I'm not cool with anyone being treated like crap, not on my watch...I'll speak up every time.
     
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  35. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Oh well, joke em if they can't take a fork I say!?
     
  36. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Like you said before, we are all passionate about our team or we wouldn't be here. Said teams success and or lack thereof shouldn't mean we have to treat each other poorly at all, at all.
     
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  37. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    Many must have not read the post. If so, they're not very good at it. Let me try to space it out to avoid confusion.

    Tannehill was injured last year. That's the guy who wears #17. He hurt his knee. That's what connects the top part of your leg to the bottom.

    #17 should have ben forced to have the surgery. That would have been GOOD. He was allowed to hope that fairies would fly out of his wife's vagina and heal it. That was BAD.

    Gase (that's the grumpy looking man-boy with the hat on) allowed Tannehill to not have the surgery. This is bad and also a tougher word - incompetent. Aisle 47 Barnes and Noble if anyone needs a dictionary.

    Gase and T-Bum went through free agency and the draft. These are two periods where you bring in new players. Keep in mind #17 is injured and Matt Moore just had multiple fumbles that helped us lose our first playoff game in almost a decade. We picked up no one at QB.

    We then went into training camp with basically the exact same roster as last year. We put all of our eggs in the Tannehill will be our starting QB through training camp and the entire season with an injured knee and the same incompetent backup and no one behind Moore that most people would let wash their car. That's one of those six window rooms that sits on four wheels and drives over the black paths.

    Tannehill then got injured in training camp. So, based upon our leadership crew of megaminds and the zero thought and effort they had put in, we then had to scour the world deep in training camp when every decent QB had found a team and end up with Cutler.

    At no point did I say that Tannehill should be cut. I hope he stays on this team though I would like to see one of the top QBs in the draft taken by Miami with T-Hill starting this year then transitioning to a backup as we're going into year 6 of the Tannehill project and he's still not a top ten qb. I would have expected we would have had more of a plan besides T-hill on an injured wheel when we had an entire offseason to prepare. We acted like this season didn't matter based upon our planning to make certain we had a plan at the most important position.
     
  38. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    makes sense to me. As I stated earlier, we should have evaluated this team on the way they ended the year. Their starter was out, not due to a hamstring, but a knee injury that needed surgery. And by the way their backup played in the last two games, it was evident, at a minimum, a backup was needed, let alone a starter. Miami should have never had to scramble for a starter in August. But that's what bad teams do. Go the entire mini camp and off season, and pick up a starter one month before the season starts.
     
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  39. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    No, but if the team is out of the race late middle next year I'd be all for an in season firing.
     
  40. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking more and more that a bigger part of our strategy needs to be to search for the next very good or great QB. I don't care if it means the team becomes weaker around him due to wasting some draft picks on the wrong QB before finally hitting, I believe that if we find the next great QB in a passing league we will be competitive to awesome for 15+ years. And yes, QB's will be playing regularly until they are close to 40 with the protection rules if they are talented enough to play after dropping off a bit later in their careers. On the same note, I wonder why that position is so well protected. Our front office may one day realize that it is because it is by far the most important piece to the puzzle. Trent Dilfer was the exception. The rule is you want a very strong QB to build around. Look at the difference in the Packers with and without Rodgers. I mean we could even look at the difference in Miami with and without Tannehill although there are some other variables as well. Now imagine the difference if we had a top level QB and lost him. Another advantage would have been that when Tannehill was not able to play this year, we could have had the next guy already partially groomed and ready to step in for some valuable experience and real game evaluation. If it ever turns out that the younger guy surpasses the veteran, you simply trade the veteran for one or more decent picks. When you bust, which will happen at times, you do what you do when any other drafted player busts. You keep looking for the next good one, in the draft.
    One day the Dolphins might really dedicate themselves to finding that all important piece and whoever the GM and coach are when that happens, they will suddenly be considered geniuses.
     

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