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Playoff QBs

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 23, 2022.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    The TB vs LAR game is over and so we'll be looking at these QBs in the playoffs:

    Joe B
    Jimmy G
    Matt S
    Pat M/Josh A

    We'll have seen the following eliminated:
    Aaron R
    Tom B
    Ryan T
    Pat M/Josh A

    ...

    Burrow is getting his but kicked regularly behind horrible protection but is unfazed and continues his lethal connection with Chase. Their defense is decent.

    The 49ers I've not watched but their run game is much celebrated. Jimmy is injured but isn't quitting until he's made to. Not sure how good their D is.

    Matt S has a decent arm but makes many mistakes. There's variety in their attack though. Then there's that defensive line that is probably the league's best.

    Both Pat and Josh have played excellent football. We'll need to see how their match up goes.


    Rodgers is Rodgers but it wasn't enough.
    Brady is Brady. It wasn't enough.
    Tannehill was good but I wasn't convinced by the play calling, and nothing spectacular from Tannehill to make up for it.

    The teams with "elite" QBs, what did they lack?
    The teams without elite QBs, how did they win?

    Will an elite QB make the difference in the conference finals and super bowl?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    It is my firm belief that if a team is good enough to be competitive in the Divisional Round, then from that point on, its anyone's game. All three games so far have completely come down to the wire, and any of the six teams could have won. The narrative that a team needs a top shelf franchise QB to have any chance is largely skewed by the Patriots dominance of the past twenty years, IMO.
     
  3. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, an elite QB makes a big difference. I don't know why that is even a question as it has been proven year after year going back many years. Brady and Rodgers getting eliminated this year does not change that...

    But hey, this is thephins forum, where some people will even question whether the world is actually round.
     
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  4. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Stat Mafford just graduated to Matt Stafford with those two throws.
     
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  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Sorry, what do you think I'm questioning?
     
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  6. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    49ers are the only team remaining without an elite QB. They won via offensive creativity and strong running game, opportunistic special teams but a defense that relentlessly attacked Rogers and never let him get comfortable. They made Rogers frustrated and disinterested. He's a dude that can get in his own head in these situations and they put him there.

    The Rams are fascinating. I'm not sure a free agent superteam has done this well before. Stafford really came through today. They paid a big price to get him and are close to it really paying off.

    Bengals D is pretty good and really got through to THill, a non-elite QB who made too many errors to prevail in a close game. Burrow is a baller, but some of the protection issues are on him. Bengals need to upgrade the OL a bit, but Burrow also needs to learn how to get rid of the ball faster and diagnose pressure better. There was a play highlighted where 6 defenders were lined up to rush against 5 OL (no backfield or TE to chip) and Burrow missed it and the free rusher buried him.

    Bills/Chiefs are elite QBs, explosive playmakers with good, opportunistic defense.

    A common theme I see is all these teams get after the QB and do it well. Strong DLs. Second to that is creative offenses that can adapt and make changes on the fly.
     
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  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Stat Padford lol, and yeah it's funny to watch him and Rogers switch narratives. :chuckle:

    Detroit sports radio is gonna be something else tomorrow.
     
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  8. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to the Succaneers, health.
    An elite QB helps so does an elite coach, as we know with Marino and Shula, but you need overall talent and healthy players to win in the NFL.
     
  9. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    All of these quarterbacks are above average to great at the position. You could argue that Janeane Garofalo is average and frankly I absolutely cannot stand that guy so I won't argue, but he has proven himself in the postseason.
    The quarterback isn't the all seeing all knowing, but in order to become a contender on a yearly basis (which is where stability develops) you need to have a franchise level player at the position. Anything can happen in the playoffs. You obviously need defense, health, and luck. It takes a team effort. Having a good to great quarterback at least enables you a trip to the playoffs every season. We've seen teams with average to below average quarterbacks make the playoffs and even win a Super Bowl. But how often do these teams repeat or even make it back to the postseason the following year. You want stability? You want a shot at the dance every year no matter who is injured or who you're missing? Get a franchise quarterback.
     
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  10. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I'm not sure I'd consider Stafford elite.

    Allen has played at elite levels but not done it long enough yet to cement his place among the best...yet, but if he continues with elite play then he can be considered among them for these playoffs, IMO.

    On another point I've been really impressed by some of the run games seen so far, not to mention balanced/varied play calling.

    Remind me what good football actually looks like!
     
  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Daboll showing off again.
     
  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Statistically the only exception this year would be Allen if he wins it, not Garoppolo. The average z-score (standard deviation above/below the mean) passer rating for a SB winning QB is just about 1. The z-scores in 2021 for the QBs remaining are:

    Burrow = 1.65
    Stafford = 1.15
    Garoppolo = 0.75
    Mahomes = 0.74
    Allen = 0.14

    So really only Allen doesn't fit the general trend of seeing ~1 z-score in passer rating.
     
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  14. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    So does Mahomes with his feet for a change…
     
  15. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Mahomes is the worst looking best QB in ages.

    So many times he looks like he's in trouble, small, about to get crushed and unable to do anything about it and then... magic.
     
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  16. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    He's the best QB in the league, IMO.
     
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  17. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    I think so too, he just looks awkward doing it.
     
  18. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Tannehill was not "good". He was arguably the primary reason the Titans are no longer in the playoffs. 3 INTs (2 of which were primarily Tannehill's fault) and 1 missed TD to a wide open receiver when you have the best RB in the game and 2 top WRs and a great defense and only need to be a game manager really shows you how he's limiting the Titans' playoff chances. He has no excuses this year.

    You know what's interesting? About half the posters at multiple Titans message boards are saying the exact same thing. Many are done with Tannehill and saying the Titans won't ever win a SB with Tannehill. It's finally setting in. There's also the realization that his cap hit is so high next year that they're stuck with him for 2022 lol.
     
  19. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Mahomes with 24 seconds each dropback to decide what he wants to do.
     
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  20. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Dude, those stats mean nothing to me. If you asked me to pick one quarterback in this league to start a team with, my pick without hesitation would be Josh Allen.
     
  21. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    We'll see what he does. I predict it will be one of the other 4. btw.. the Bills have the best defense in the NFL by points allowed so he's not lacking the proper surrounding cast.

    Anyway, I would pick Mahomes. He's clearly elite to me, even if this year is a bit of an off year. Allen isn't in Mahomes' league IMO. We'll see over the years who does better.
     
  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    He's a very effective runner. Not blazing fast like Murray or just a unit like Allen, but he's sneaky quick, has good vision and is GREAT at getting to his mark.

    Personally I'd still go with Mahomes, but Allen may well be #2. The ceiling for Allen is just so immense. The biggest worry with him imo is all the running leading to a quick Cam Newton-esque decline.
     
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  23. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I think the difference is that Allen has steadily improved as a thrower each and every year he's been in the league whereas Cam Newton never really made a jump in that department. The game basically passed Cam by. Allen I think will evolve to where that won't happen. He's going to be a huge problem for us for a long time.
     
  24. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I always thought the abuse he took just sapped him. He clearly wasn't the same guy. I'd be a little worried about that with Allen as well, though he doesn't take the pocket punishment. If he can be consistent though, his talent and pure ability may be the tops.
     
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  25. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The play designs in these games man ... we were running an amateur offense.
     
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  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Today was the first day I saw good play at quarterback. Matt Stafford did a pretty good job at quarterback. Both Mahomes and Allen are keeping their teams in the games.

    The rest were either O.K. to terrible. Jimmy G tried to throw the game away but failed miserably. Burrow did alright but took way too many sacks that knocked them out of field goal range. Rogers couldn't overcome the elements and the receivers thought the ball had covid because they were not trying to catch the ball. Brady was alright but only was able to mount a comeback due to the defense.

    This weekend was mostly defense and special teams. Showed how important it is to have good overall teams. People give way too much credit to the quarterback for team wins.
     
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I didn't watch the game, but wasn't one ball tipped and one ball go off his receiver's hands?
     
  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    The one that went off the receiver's hands wasn't his fault. The first INT was his fault as he threw it too late and in the wrong place (first play of game). The 2nd INT, the one that was tipped, was 100% Tannehill's fault because that defender was completely unblocked and running right into the passing lane. It's the QB's job to see that and adjust his throwing trajectory.

    Here's that 2nd INT that was tipped:
     
  29. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Oh my god what a play.
     
  30. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    Josh Allen is incredible… we have a problem
     
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  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I just don't get how these quarterbacks get to scramble around all day with no penalties.
     
  32. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    If Daboll says he will bring Dorsey along, do it and hope that will set Allen and the Bills back a bit. :crapstrom:

    That was a phenomenal drive. Let's see if Mahomes can match it.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The refs are too mesmerized by their scrambling ability
     
  34. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    HOLY JEEBUS THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Damn he was even held there too!
     
  35. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The bills offense is all Josh Allen, Daboll is not some great coach, he just lucked in to a phenomenal talent...
     
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  36. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Both he and Mahomes are incredible, but these plays and calls are allowing them to shine. Let's not forget that Allen was not a finished product either, he was super raw. We aren't talking about a guy who inherited Aaron Rogers a decade into his career.

    And good lord, what the hell just happened!?!??!
     
  37. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Any decent coach could have developed Josh Allen, there was so much to work with, and if Daboll leaves Allen won't miss a beat.
     
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  38. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Allen came out with the same talk of NFL readiness that Daniel Jones had when he was drafted. He was projected to have a sky high ceiling but nobody thought he'd be this good. Same for Mahomes. If anybody saw it coming, they would have been drafted first when they entered the league.
     
  39. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Talented but raw guys fail to develop all the time. Maybe you're right, but maybe not. I wouldn't complain about him being the hire though.

    And this game is NOT done. Omg.
     
  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    This game is utter madness!!!
     
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