Playboy Mocks Virgin Mary

"BigDogsHunt wrote:

And none of that adds up to MOCKING the Virgin Mary!:up:Those are just words and thoughts that people read into to make/meet their own personal agenda and conclusions.

Never said it was mocking re read what I said.
And no offense bro because you see it as art does not make it art. You can just as easily be seen as having his own agenda :up:

"unluckyluciano wrote:

Never said it was mocking re read what I said.
And no offense bro because you see it as art does not make it art. You can just as easily be seen as having his own agenda :up:

Sorry, I didnt mean you said it....again, was addressing the Title of the Article and Thread.

Its clearly not porn, its clearly not mocking, so where is the offensiveness of it??

It can only be cause its on the cover over a commonly known Nudity Magazine....that's hypocritical in my view. Thats all. Clearly its just my opinion.

:hi5:

"BigDogsHunt wrote:

Sorry, I didnt mean you said it....again, was addressing the Title of the Article and Thread.

Its clearly not porn, its clearly not mocking, so where is the offensiveness of it??

It can only be cause its on the cover over a commonly known Nudity Magazine....that's hypocritical in my view. Thats all. Clearly its just my opinion.

:hi5:

To you it is not mocking. I grant that. To others, myself included, the textbook definition of mocking as "holding up to ridicule" fits. I think we all should exercise care at assuming our opinions are the only proper ones to hold.

Now was the headline writer also going for the sensational and salacious? I think that would also be a yes.

The devotion to Mary among Mexican Catholics, especially "the Virgin of Guadalupe" is difficult for North Americans to fathom but I think if they were polled, they would have clearly seen the intentional provocation and disrespect.

Is it a huge deal, no. I would expect nothing less from the Playboy empire. I also choose to not let it get majorly under my skin otherwise I let that empire "win".

Many thanks Ohio.....but please expand on ridicule?

Based on the Cover shot...how is our Virgin Mary being ridiculed in this image? Is it simply because it graces the cover of this magazine???

I will hopefully properly phase my opinion this way, that cover photo and all its innuendo, in no way shape of form, changes or detracts from the Blessed Mother I hold near and dear to my heart.

Does it yours?

Let me just step in here and explain it for everybody. At the risk of being crude, you shouldn't want to **** the Virgin Mary. Capisce?

"DrAstroZoom wrote:

Let me just step in here and explain it for everybody. At the risk of being crude, you shouldn't want to **** the Virgin Mary. Capisce?

I should say not, and if that Photo does, than again, we clearly view images differently!

For one major reason, that photo is not of the Virgin Mary!!!!!!!

"BigDogsHunt wrote:

Many thanks Ohio.....but please expand on ridicule?

Based on the Cover shot...how is our Virgin Mary being ridiculed in this image? Is it simply because it graces the cover of this magazine???

I will hopefully properly phase my opinion this way, that cover photo and all its innuendo, in no way shape of form, changes or detracts from the Blessed Mother I hold near and dear to my heart.

Does it yours?

The nature of the magazine is a start but then the head covering without a tunic, the hint of nudity, and the comeliness of the pose all combine for me to bring ridicule.

Do they change my view of Mary? Of course not, that view is formed from scripture and theology. That those things should be set aside for quick titilation is my problem.

I think people need to relax.

"unifiedtheory wrote:

I think people need to relax.

That would kinda defeat the purpose of a "discussion forum" wouldn't it?

The disagreement here has been respectful and probably informative. For those who were highly offended they learned that perhaps some of the offense was in their own heads. For those who saw no error, perhaps they have been more sensitized to the feelings of others. Win all around.

"unifiedtheory wrote:

I think people need to relax.

Sorry, brother. I can't relax.
It is something that is important to me, very important to me.
In fact, I see Mary as my mother in Heaven. So to see her represented in that way is disgusting.
And yes, I totally believe it was intentional. Controversy sells.
If I allow myself to relax, then what is the point of standing up for what you believe in?

"unifiedtheory wrote:

I think people need to relax.

meh, I'm not readily upset about it. In fact I am not upset at all at it. But I think you can call it for what it is and not be upset.

I don't see it as mocking at all.

Then again I'm not Christian so my view comes from a different angle. Maybe, just maybe, the person whos idea this was is also not Christian and didn't see it as mocking either.

"The Rev wrote:

Sorry, brother. I can't relax.
It is something that is important to me, very important to me.
In fact, I see Mary as my mother in Heaven. So to see her represented in that way is disgusting.
And yes, I totally believe it was intentional. Controversy sells.
If I allow myself to relax, then what is the point of standing up for what you believe in?

How gauche', standing on Beliefs, or Principles is merely another source of division...and who wants that to happen?

Right?

Now what a fascinating discussion could result from a debate around the idea, or controversy, of "was Jesus conceived via anthrogensis, or whether there was an actual sort of impregnation"?

The mechanics of the Incarnation is a ripe idea IMO.

"The Rev wrote:

Sorry, brother. I can't relax.
It is something that is important to me, very important to me.
In fact, I see Mary as my mother in Heaven. So to see her represented in that way is disgusting.
And yes, I totally believe it was intentional. Controversy sells.
If I allow myself to relax, then what is the point of standing up for what you believe in?

I'll have to remember that the next time I'm told to relax about being portrayed as green-faced and evil. :wink2:

Green faced?

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

Green faced?

I could keep going....:wink2:

"Pagan wrote:

I'll have to remember that the next time I'm told to relax about being portrayed as green-faced and evil. :wink2:

...or when I'm told that why go to a priest for confession when God should be my confessor.

We ALL get it in one form or another. :wink2:

"The Rev wrote:

...or when I'm told that why go to a priest for confession when God should be my confessor.

We ALL get it in one form or another. :wink2:

Exactly why everyone should calm down about this. :wink2:

"Pagan wrote:

Exactly why everyone should calm down about this. :wink2:

I know you have a wink with this, but seriously, I disagree. It was listening to you that has made me more careful in my use of language about Wiccans. The learning process works that way.

It is fashionable to denounce political correctness and I will fully agree that it has often gone waaaaay to far. But, it started as a deliberate attempt to inform folks when they were offending others. We don't like it when we are the offenders but we all sure scream when we are the offendees!

To poke fun at someone's religious beliefs, Christian, Wiccian, or whatever, to commercially sell a product, especially one thnat is in opposition to the religion's beliefs (in this case Playboy magazine) is always going to be wrong in my opinion.

A couple of years ago my denomination sold rights to "Davey and Goliath" to Mountain Dew for some serious change. D&G are icons within Lutheranism and a generation of claymation watchers. In the first of what was to be a series of commercials Mountain Dew had Davey saying "We've just been hosed!" MD didn't need to mock the chracter, but chose to anyway, we pulled our lisence back and left the money on the table.

Mockery, especially of beliefs, is wrong and I will stand up to attack it whether it mocks me or you. I may need to be educated when it mocks someone else but that just makes me slow witted not insincere.

"Pagan wrote:

Exactly why everyone should calm down about this. :wink2:

Not I , said the fly. Pastor Keith said it very eloquently so I will not repeat it.

If, as a Catholic, I am not appalled, then I am not paying attention. :wink2:

"The Rev wrote:

Not I , said the fly. Pastor Keith said it very eloquently so I will not repeat it.

If, as a Catholic, I am not appalled, then I am not paying attention. :wink2:

Devil's advocate (no pun intended) then Rev.

Do you think it's acceptable then when Christians and Catholics portray people of my faith the way they do?

Not looking to start an argument, just curious.

It would seem sometimes that those who get offended the easiest are the quickest to tell others who are offended to not pay any mind to what's offending them.

Again, not trying to start a conflict, but over the course of my life I've found that those of the Christian persuasion do have a tendency to belittle others, then scream the loudest when the gun faces back at them.

"Pagan wrote:

Devil's advocate (no pun intended) then Rev.

Do you think it's acceptable then when Christians and Catholics portray people of my faith the way they do?

Not looking to start an argument, just curious.

It would seem sometimes that those who get offended the easiest are the quickest to tell others who are offended to not pay any mind to what's offending them.

Again, not trying to start a conflict, but over the course of my life I've found that those of the Christian persuasion do have a tendency to belittle others, then scream the loudest when the gun faces back at them.

Pun not taken.
Please elaborate your second statement about portrayal of people of faith. Didn't understand.
I have not told anyone not to pay mind to what's offending them. I'm sorry if that has been your experience.

You are not starting a conflict, brother. If the gospel is not preached with love, then the message is lost. I enjoy speaking with you and debating our beliefs but only if it is done with love (not the groovy kind of love) but with respect. You are not a fool so I'm sure you understand.

Again, I'm sorry that people and/or you get belittled. Unfortunately, people remember the few who yell the loudest rather than the work of faith as a whole. That is what makes us human. Although, taking a stand for what you believe in should not be watered down. It should cut through another's heart as a knife but not to injure, only to show truth.
Finally, and putting myself out on the line, I wish I could speak to you one day about God's love...not to demean you, criticize you, or hug you :lol:
but to show you just how much He loves you. When I preach, that is what I talk about. Pastor Keith, debby and others can attest to that.

"The Rev wrote:

Pun not taken.
Please elaborate your second statement about portrayal of people of faith. Didn't understand.

It's quite easy to explain Rev. Turn on your TV or watch the movies. The word "Witch" is always used in a negative way. We're portrayed as evil, devil worshipers (hilarious since we don't believe in him), and immmoral. No matter how many times it's proven other wise, it's brushed aside.

I have not told anyone not to pay mind to what's offending them. I'm sorry if that has been your experience.
It's constant, my friend.

You are not starting a conflict, brother. If the gospel is not preached with love, then the message is lost. I enjoy speaking with you and debating our beliefs but only if it is done with love (not the groovy kind of love) but with respect. You are not a fool so I'm sure you understand.
Sure I do.

Again, I'm sorry that people and/or you get belittled. Unfortunately, people remember the few who yell the loudest rather than the work of faith as a whole. That is what makes us human.
The problem with that sentiment though Rev, is that it is always Christians who perpetrate the belittling on us. I've never had a problem with anyone from any other faith concerning my beliefs. However, I've had Christians ask me to leave wake services because of my pentacle necklace. I've had Christians ask me to remove my pentacle. I've had Christians tell me that my Goddess was the devil in disguise. I've had Christians tell me I'm really following their god, I just don't realize it yet.

It goes on and on.

Christians - led by priests - have picketed army bases for allowing Witches to practice their faith on them.

Witches - until this year - weren't allowed to have pentacles their headstones when buried in military cemetaries.

Witch stores and schools are routinely picketed - in most cases by entire church congregations - and forced to close down or move.

Do some research Rev, it'll boggle your mind. It's never the Jews, or Muslims, or anyone else. Always the Christians.

Although, taking a stand for what you believe in should not be watered down. It should cut through another's heart as a knife but not to injure, only to show truth.
Ah, but truth is relative Rev. What is "truth" to you may not be to others.

Finally, and putting myself out on the line, I wish I could speak to you one day about God's love...not to demean you, criticize you, or hug you :lol:
but to show you just how much He loves you. When I preach, that is what I talk about. Pastor Keith, debby and others can attest to that.
And right here is the biggest problem I have with Christians, Rev...

WHY would I want to hear about your God? Would I sit and tell you about my Goddess' love? No. If you wanted to find Her you'd do so on your own.

Not to sound rude...but I could care less if he loves me, for I don't believe in him or worship him.

I've said this a million times in these forums, Christians would find alot less people having problems with them if they followed George Carlin's "commandment":

"Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."

What a great place the world would be if everyone did that!

It's quite easy to explain Rev. Turn on your TV or watch the movies. The word "Witch" is always used in a negative way. We're portrayed as evil, devil worshipers (hilarious since we don't believe in him), and immmoral. No matter how many times it's proven other wise, it's brushed aside.

Not in Harry Potter. :wink2:

The problem with that sentiment though Rev, is that it is always Christians who perpetrate the belittling on us. I've never had a problem with anyone from any other faith concerning my beliefs. However, I've had Christians ask me to leave wake services because of my pentacle necklace. I've had Christians ask me to remove my pentacle. I've had Christians tell me that my Goddess was the devil in disguise. I've had Christians tell me I'm really following their god, I just don't realize it yet.

It goes on and on.

Christians - led by priests - have picketed army bases for allowing Witches to practice their faith on them.

Witches - until this year - weren't allowed to have pentacles their headstones when buried in military cemetaries.

Witch stores and schools are routinely picketed - in most cases by entire church congregations - and forced to close down or move.

Do some research Rev, it'll boggle your mind. It's never the Jews, or Muslims, or anyone else. Always the Christians.

I can understand why some would be bothered by the Pentacle necklace as that is a symbol of the devil to Christians but I will have to research the other statements.

And right here is the biggest problem I have with Christians, Rev...

WHY would I want to hear about your God? Would I sit and tell you about my Goddess' love? No. If you wanted to find Her you'd do so on your own.

Not to sound rude...but I could care less if he loves me, for I don't believe in him or worship him.

I've said this a million times in these forums, Christians would find alot less people having problems with them if they followed George Carlin's "commandment":

"Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."

What a great place the world would be if everyone did that!

I apologize if I offended, brother. By offering to tell you about Him, I was only trying to show you a side that you might not have been familiar with, but I can see that you do not want to hear it. :lol:

As far as the Goddess' love. If I wanted to know about her, I would ask someone who was familiar with her to tell me about her. It's all about witnessing, IMO.

We will just agree to disagree. :wink2:

"The Rev wrote:

I can understand why some would be bothered by the Pentacle necklace as that is a symbol of the devil to Christians but I will have to research the other statements.

Brother Rev....I'm almost beside myself at the ignorance being displayed here. I do not mean to offend you, as I think you're an intelligent guy, but I'm blown away that you actually typed this statement.

You really, truly need to do some research, and not just blindly follow what's been told to you about things.

The pentacle - or even the pentagram - is no symbol of the devil. There IS no devil in Pagan beliefs. Saying this is akin to me saying the cross is a symbol of Godzilla.

And to which Christians is the pentacle a symbol of evil? Only the truly ignorant. Look it up, early Christians actually borrowed the pentacle from Pagans and used it to represent the five wounds of Jesus.

It's a symbol of the Goddess Venus. The ignorance that the Christians used towards it comes from the fact that the pentacle is associated with the Roman word "lucifer", which is a term used for Venus. Of course, the ignorant will see that word and immediately associate it with the name Lucifer.

The pentacle's points actually stand for earth, air, fire, water and spirit. No devil is mentioned.

Now...again here's where the ignorance comes into play. Devil worshipers DO use the pentacle....upside down, the same way they use your cross. Doesn't make the pentacle any more evil than your cross is.

This is just another shining example of how we've been misrepresented, and how - hate to say it - Christians keep the myths and lies going.

You do need to stop watching late night horror movies for info on us, Rev. :wink2:

Another shining example of the Chirstian bias....notice how dolphindebby thanks each post that you have made but none of mine, even though my points are valid.

A nice way to crystalize everything I'm saying. :lol: