phins are expected to make a "huge push" to sign G/C Jason Brown

Well hot dam! music to my ears

Well let the spending begin! They must really be sold on Brown if they are willing to invest 25% of their cap on the oline. Or perhaps they feel the uncapped era is comming, collect young proven talent now.

Either way, if we land Brown, great, if not we'll still be good.

I think Satele could be a starter at RG depending on what happens with Thomas. They could fight it out in TC.

This is good news but we still have to be smart....pay him well but dont go too nuts.

"Fin-Omenal wrote:

This is good news but we still have to be smart....pay him well but dont go too nuts.

Yea I agree we dont need to lose our minds over this guy. Yes I would be excited if we sign him but I dont want to throw a ton of money at him we still go other postions to improve. I hope we land him.

"The Aqua Crush wrote:

Well let the spending begin! They must really be sold on Brown if they are willing to invest 25% of their cap on the oline. Or perhaps they feel the uncapped era is comming, collect young proven talent now.

Either way, if we land Brown, great, if not we'll still be good.

I would love to bring Brown to the Dolphins, but that percentage of the cap allocated to the Offensive Line seems abnormally high. I'd be interested to see what that percentage is for other organizations around the league.

With all that said, I'd prefer the more cost effective approach of bringing in one of Boomer's guys via the draft:

Guy I Like: Antoine Caldwell - Alabama - Senior.
I saw as much of Caldwell as I did anyone this year. An absolute beast of a man, he's gigantic in the flesh. That chest is like the base of an oak tree when he's not in uniform. Mean, he plays with a good base and never gets moved backwards. Moves well laterally and whilst he's not great to the 2nd level he's adequate. He can get a little lazy when he's uncovered; three times this season I saw him allow late blitzers to just blow past him and all he did in response was to turn his head as they went past. But he's a leader and mean as a junkyard dog; anyone see him at the coin toss for the Sugar Bowl go to shake Stevenson Sylvester's hand only to ignore said hand and tell Sylvester simply that he was going to kill him?

"The Aqua Crush wrote:

Well let the spending begin! They must really be sold on Brown if they are willing to invest 25% of their cap on the oline. Or perhaps they feel the uncapped era is comming, collect young proven talent now.

Either way, if we land Brown, great, if not we'll still be good.

I believe that the 25% estimate is high. My guesstimate is that the actual salary cap % for the OL would be about 18%. It's still high but not unworkably so.

"rafael wrote:

I believe that the 25% estimate is high. My guesstimate is that the actual salary cap % for the OL would be about 18%. It's still high but not unworkably so.

CK in another thread pointed out its around 25% and worked out the known numbers and est. about 7 million for Brown.

I'm not too concerned about the percentage tied up in the OL, Long, Carey and Brown would be here long term, while Smiley could be replaced two or three years down the road through the draft with a younger and cheaper option. Maybe sooner if he suffers another injury. When you have a chance to acquire a young player like Brown at such a crucial position, you do it.

"dolpns13 wrote:

I think Satele could be a starter at RG depending on what happens with Thomas. They could fight it out in TC.

If they do sign Brown I'd much rather they entertain trade offers for Satele. He may make a good RG but to me it would be a waste. He would be an excellent fit on quite a few teams. As a RG I think he's a tad small. Put him next to a mammouth LT, and he might make a very good LG but I don't see him on the right...

I just think he's a Center who can play Center I guess.

"ATVZ400 wrote:

Dolphins are expected to make a "huge push" to sign G/C Jason Brown
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/diner-morning-news-16/

Very exciting news and typical Parcells / Sparano / Ireland philosophy. Invest in the big guys and they will make the skill players better.

I'm very excited about getting Jason Brown in Miami. His youth (only 25) and power style of play are a perfect fit!

Looking like my feelings on Satele being seen more highly by Sparano and crew then rumors have let on are looking to be false.

Well if they are that set against Satele then something must be up.
Either this size issue is really a problem or his recovery isn't looking so promising.

Either way, if we bring this Brown in we know we've upgraded and that's all we can hope for.

Just wondering how on earth were going to fill all these defensive spots with all that cap in the OL.

"The Aqua Crush wrote:

CK in another thread pointed out its around 25% and worked out the known numbers and est. about 7 million for Brown.

I saw that and he figured the per year salary cap #s by taking the total contract value and dividing by the term. That # is substantially higher than the actual cap #. The actual salary cap hit should be closer to the 18% I stated earlier.

"Coral Reefer wrote:

Looking like my feelings on Satele being seen more highly by Sparano and crew then rumors have let on are looking to be false.

Well if they are that set against Satele then something must be up.
Either this size issue is really a problem or his recovery isn't looking so promising.

I'm high on Satele too, but still see Brown as too good to pass on. Signing him improves us so I'm all for it, and it gives us a young guy that should be around a long time.

Also, what if the staff knows that Smiley or Thomas may not be back full strength, or that Satele might be better than one of them on at OG? I think what you posted still is right on. People forget how cheap Satele's contract is. Keeping him is no burden and our FO / staff value lineman on both sides of the ball.

The thing with getting Brown is that it saves us from drafting a Center or OL with one of out first few picks. We can use those picks to get a WR, OLB and CB now.

"rafael wrote:

I saw that and he figured the per year salary cap #s by taking the total contract value and dividing by the term. That # is substantially higher than the actual cap #. The actual salary cap hit should be closer to the 18% I stated earlier.

Yeah I thought I had read the cap figure would be around 123 mil. If so then 25% of that would be 30.75 mil.

You win games in the trenches... Investing in the offensive (defensive too...) line is the smartest thing we can do. After years of having an abysmal offensive line and the damage it's caused, I'm thrilled. Even this season, it was obvious how badly the interior line hurt this team. Aside from the game in NE this year, we didn't run over anyone. We didn't play power football. Hell, how many 3rd and shorts did we miss? Our best play became a FB dive in those situations. We couldn't impose our will on anyone in those situations. With a division that includes Wilfork, Jenkins, and Stroud, fixing the interior is a wise move.

"late again wrote:

Yeah I thought I had read the cap figure would be around 123 mil. If so then 25% of that would be 30.75 mil.

Right, and my estimate of the actual salary cap figure with the addition Brown would be about $23 million or 18.7% of $123 million.

Like I said in the "Club Level",If we sign Brown we'll have the highest paid offensive line in the league. Having that kind of loot poured into our line means I want to hear "anyone can rush for 1,800 yards behind that line" everytime someone talks about one of our running backs. Anything less than 2,000 yards in team rushing should be considered under achieving and anytime we run the ball less than 30 times in game should be considered horrible mismanagement of resources.

The Dolphins are expected to make a "huge push" to sign G/C Jason Brown when the free agent market opens.

Brown may encounter the same problems with Miami he's having in talks with the Ravens. Baltimore will only give him top center money and he wants to be paid like a guard. Miami's need is at center, not his preferred position

:confused2:

Well, I hope we get him, but that bolded part has me thinking, or am I reading to much into that?

point blank the guy sucks... u dont want him lol

"rafael wrote:

I believe that the 25% estimate is high. My guesstimate is that the actual salary cap % for the OL would be about 18%. It's still high but not unworkably so.

Rafael, here's an a anlysis I did awhile ago. I have updated the numbers to reflect Carey's new contract. I tried to change wording wherver it needed to be updated for new information (since I origially wrote this last August). Please excuse any out-dated statements I forgot to change.

For 2009. Carey has a six-year, $42m contract. This averages out to $7m per season over the contract... so if Jake averages out to $11 million that season, Vernon gets $7 million, Smiley at $3.8 million, Satele around $665,000 (incl. pro-rated bonus, counts against cap), and let's say a bargain right-guard at $460,000 (Donald Thomas). That's about $22 million dollars... approximately.

Now, the cap is supposedly going to be around $123million in 2009 (judging by a yearly increase of approx. $7million the last two years). http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/58422

That means the 5 guys on our O-line WITHOUT JASON BROWN will account for 18% of our entire team's salary. Last year, the Bucs signed Jeff Faine for six years, $37.5-million, an average of just over $6m per year. I have to assume Brown will command at least as much, a year later.

That would bring the O-line payroll to an average of $27 or so yearly (allof these are VERY rough estimates based on averages, not actual cap numbers as I simply can't get those figures easily).

That's 22% of the 2009 salary cap (give or take a couple percent, depending on how the actual deals are structured).

By comparison, the 2008 Philadelphia Eagles, whose coach Andy Reid LOVES to invest in talent along both lines, is paying their starting O-linemen $19 million per year. That's about 16.4% of the 2008 cap ($116million).

The 2007 New England Patriots (who have a pretty good line, and rest of the team) spent barely over $7million on their five starting O-linemen. That's right.... $7m on ALL FIVE of them. Should we then have been surprised when they could afford Adalius Thomas, Randy Moss, Donte Stallworth, and so on and so on? The cap that year was $109 million. That's an unbelievably low 6.4% allocated to the O-line. That's abnormal and I don't expect us to do that. But remember that Andy Reid and the Eagles already represent the HIGH end of what a team in this league spends on its O-line at around 16%.

Just before the 2007 season, KC's vaunted line (before Roaf's retirement, and with Brian Waters) was set to earn just over $11million. INCLUDING Roaf's $4.8 million salary, and with a 2007 cap maximum of $109 million the Kansas City Chiefs had 10% of their cap tied up in the O-line. And that was a team known for it's O-line at the time, and emphasizing its importance to pound the rock.

Perhaps the team most comparable to us, however, were the Cleveland Browns heading into 2007. They sank a ton of money and a high pick, Joe Thomas, into their line. In part, the Dolphins took Jake Long hoping to emulate the effect Joe Thomas had in Cleveland'. Steinbach, like Carey, is another top-tier, somewhat expensive piece of talent they also have. In fact, even Fraley, Bentley's replacement, cost them $3.4million. It was NOT a bargain basement line. Their five starters, probably one of the most expensive lines in the league, cost them a whopping $28 million dollars (a little over, actually). This comes to 26% of their salary cap.

Some might argue that this strategy has clearly worked for the Browns. I argue that dumping that much money into your O-line is the FASTEST way to go from being terrible to being good, but that you will NEVER make the next step to elite because you simply can't pay talent in enough other areas to be a solid, talented football team. It's deceptive that way because by improving suddenly, abd being GOOD, a team's fans immediately expect the team to keep improving and become great. To go to Superbowls. But, with that much imbalance, with that much money tied up in one area of the team, I don't beleive you can field a balanced enough team to go to a Superbowl.

The Patriots, hate them or not, have the winning recipe. In fact, let's look at how much money other Superbowl winners have invested in their O-lines.. namely the Colts and Giants.

The Colts line will cost $14.8 million in 2008. That's 12.7% of the $116 million cap.

The 2008 Giants Line will make $12.7 million. that's 10.9% of the team salary cap.

See a trend here? The only team remotely close to the 20+ % we are talking about if the Dolphins sign Jason Brown are the Cleveland Browns, who are hardly a proven winner. The next closest team is the Eagles at 16%, who have a heavy investment in their O-line yet are still way below the figures we'd be talking about with the Dolphins. Another team that emphasized its O-line for years, the 2007 Chiefs, had only 10% invested in their line before they lost Willie Roaf. Then the percentage sank lower (and they began to lose). Obviously there's an ideal window, which seems to be between 7-15% of your cap.

The most proven winners recently, the Colts, Giants and Patriots, showed O-line allocations of 12.7%, 10.9% and 6.4% respectively.

Realistically, the O-line shouldn;t consume more than 15% of your team's salary cap, because skill positions are the most expensive, and if you cannot afford to pay top dollar for those, you'll have crappy WR's, CB's, RB's, QB's in the long run. If Chad Henne emerges and becomes a SUPERSTAR talent that could get us to Superbowls, you darned well better believe he'll be renegotiating for a giant payday (think #12m a year type of money). If Ronnie is a monster in 2009,how will we have enough cap space to resign/extend him?

Skill positions cost the most and you need your resources available for those positions.. not primarily along your O-line. Not THIS much of your resources.

Hey I LOVE smashmouth football, and as a fan Iwant to see Jason Brown lead a big nasty Dolphins line. It would be gleefully fun to watch, but what we are talking about is very unproven territory. It's hoping we can pour almost a quarter of this team's resources into one area and still find enough money to field championship caliber players across the board. I find it unlikely to lead us to a championship.

That said, if we go uncapped, all this disappears.

By the way, I think it makes sense to look at the long-term outlook of salary cap allocation by using an average yearly salary instead of just 2009 figures. The reality is, all these salaries are structured to go up, so even if the % is lower at the outset, it's not reflective of the contractual commitment the organization is locked into for future years with thisline. I want to reflect the long term effect of these contracts.

"UCF FINatic wrote:

The thing with getting Brown is that it saves us from drafting a Center or OL with one of out first few picks. We can use those picks to get a WR, OLB and CB now.

The counter argument is, if Brown wants a king's ransom, why not get a much cheaper center from the deepest draft class of talented Centers in over a decade??

"unifiedtheory wrote:

Like I said in the "Club Level",If we sign Brown we'll have the highest paid offensive line in the league. Having that kind of loot poured into our line means I want to hear "anyone can rush for 1,800 yards behind that line" everytime someone talks about one of our running backs. Anything less than 2,000 yards in team rushing should be considered under achieving and anytime we run the ball less than 30 times in game should be considered horrible mismanagement of resources.

Just talking about getting him and setting the bar that high for our run game says how great a signing it would be, IMO. With the way are interior OL was last year, that wasn't even a realistic expectation. I would do whatever we have to to get him. He's the FA player I want most. ;)