Philbin defends Thomas over Lamar Miller

I think the discrepancy is fine..I mean, it's a 70/30 split, pretty normal for the position.

 

Sorry but this is how a coaching staff gradually loses my support.

Small increments of WTF-are-they-thinking?

 

Honestly at this point I don't give a **** what the coaches say, what Ireland says, I'm strictly relying on my own two eyes, Thomas sucks, he's always sucked, he always will suck, same with another guy the staff always talks up in John Jerry. I don't follow the "just trust the coaches, trust the GM" philosophy anymore, not with this franchise.

 

I don't think Miller is a 16-game workhorse. Not tough enough in general, imo, and he's just never really been the guy. Still inconsistent taking what's there and goes down on first contact a lot. I'd keep the split.

I think Miller is an ideal closer, though. Let DT come out of halftime and take the 3rd early quarter. Then Miller totes it in the 4th when defenses are tired and maybe losing discipline, more chances for him to gash them for a homerun. Miller can spark us late and seal games with big runs.

Check out this 2011 vid. Notice how many of his big highlight runs came in the 4th quarter, and a good chunk coming at the end of the first half. When defenses are just a half-step slower closing gaps, he makes them pay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVoKjbx3QC4

 

Lamar Miller has a tough time even knowing where to lineup sometimes. I understand a lot of people hate Thomas, but he has the best grasp on what he actually needs to do in pass protection.

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If the discrepancy weren't a total repeat of 2012, perhaps you could just explain it away as a result of "lack of opportunities" as Philbin said (very disingenuous argument, if you ask me).

But the fact of the matter is in 2012 and 2013 combined Lamar Miller has run 94 times for 446 yards and 3 TDs while Daniel Thomas has run 116 times for 395 yards and 6 TDs. That's a 4.74 yards per carry average versus a 3.41 yards per carry average...running behind the same offensive line.

You can point to the touchdown discrepancy if you like but Daniel Thomas has had 19 carries inside the opponent's 10 yard line over that time period whereas Lamar Miller has had only 1 such carry (and he scored a 5 yard touchdown on that 1 carry).

I don't think that discrepancy is "fine".

 

Irrelevant if they still perform almost equally in pass pro, yet one performs FAR better in the run game.

 

I don't agree that they perform almost equally in pass pro. Not even close.

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Well, from what I've seen that has appeared to be the case. And when JDang (whose opinion I trust) weighed in with this:

... I felt it was a good second opinion that matched what my eyes were telling me.

I AM curious where JD got the grades he is referring to though.

 

I don't have time to go back and look, but if you watch the NO game, Tannehill has to move Miller to the right spot a number of times. I think the perception of pass protection is the physical aspect of actually executing a block, but the reality is that the heavy lifting is in identifying whats actually happening, and deciding what your responsibilities are.

 

Here's a maybe unrelated question, but stringer mentioning Tanny lining Miller up reminded me of this.

Why does our Right Guard (Jerry now, Samuda in preseason) always look back at Tannehill before the snap? None of the other Olinemen are doing this.

 

4 carries. we're complaining about 4 carries now.

even travis minor used to get 4 carries when rivky was here

 

For some reason I misread the numbers to being a 70/30 ratio, I figured you gotta rest your starter some so 70/30 is usually the case...

Looking again it's less than a 2 to 1 ratio, it should be more pro miller, my bad.

 

I have no idea how Thomas still has a job in the NFL. He has been a very below average RB in the NFL the entire time he has been in the NFL. He has had a couple of decent games over his two plus years in the league, a good amount of injury time and a whole lot of bad play. The fact that he is the backup RB on this team only goes to show how weak the RB position is with the Dolphins right now.

Reggie Bush is so much better than any of the RB's now on this roster that it isn't even funny. Yet he was not signed to a new contract and Thomas is still here. It makes you wonder about the person or persons making personnel decisions for this team. I have always questioned Ireland, but now it appears Philbin might also be lacking when it comes to player personnel decisions.

 

Most teams use it as a check back to the center, especially in a silent or quick count.

 

He's been consistent about that. He considers it one of the positions where you have guys completely across the spectrum physically and all that matters is just which guys show that knack for getting yards and staying healthy and strong throughout the game.

 

Oh so when you said "discrepancy" you meant the ratio of their playing time?

If that's the case then I actually somewhat agree with you there. People are unrealistic expecting Lamar Miller to just get like 90% of the touches or 90% of the snaps. It can't happen. That's not the kind of league we're in.

It's just a shame that our roster is such to where the guy that has to share those carries is a dud.

 

What key situations has he been used in? And don't say the 3rd and 2 centimeters on Monday b/c that was not Thomas' fault AT ALL.

 

You mean against Cleveland when he dove into the end zone, or against Atlanta when he scored from 5 yards out?

 

yup..but still, the numbers show I was incorrect.

 

It's two plays though. He's had 29 tries from inside the 10 yard line and produced 6 touchdowns. And I know that stat well enough to know it's not a very good result, even worse when you consider he's supposed to be a specialist at it.

 

What an Aristotle the Tuna was. I loved his philosophy that the secret to winning football games was scoring more points than the opponent. Pure genius.

 

19 from 2012 to 2013. It's 29 for his career.

 

I don't think either guy is that good. This is what we are stuck with this year, hopefully they get better as they go along.

 

Lamar Miller could be very good if he'd catch the wheel route, IMO.

 

Much more a case of : what do they know that you don't ?Almost always A LOT ! But fans aren't that humble. They know Best, because of course they watched the game on tv and are armed with a few stats ! Miller is getting the majority of the carries, are we really arguing he Should be a workhorse back ?

If you don't support the players or decisions the staff makes, tHan they already lost your undivided support.

 

When it comes to deciphering which RB is better in pass protection, fans don't even have much information about blocking assignments, protection packages, etc. To a certain degree, only the coaches and players are going to have the information to make an accurate assessment.

 

Well it certainly doesn't sound very good, but I never saw him as a specialist. I just saw him as a better option than slamming Reggie Bush in there. Both he and Miller have gotten touches in the tight red area this season. Thigpen is starting to get touches as the "3rd down" back. Thomas had 4 carries and IIRC one target last week. He's a backup RB, 1 of 32, and I'd venture to guess he's right in the middle of the pack as far as backup RB's go.


Why all the venom?

 

Honestly the Dolphins should be repping passes to the backs more often than what they currently do.

Just do it until the chemistry clicks and I think the team will be much better off for it. They face so much shell coverage with Mike Wallace out there, that's one of the big ways you beat that.

I just keep thinking of plays where Lamar Miller has been open on the wheel route and Miami just doesn't throw it or doesn't hit it or he drops it, etc.

Throwing only 14 times to Miller, Thomas and Thigpen over the first 4 games of the season is not enough. Norv Turner as a head coach in San Diego averaged about 12 to 13 attempts to the backs PER GAME. I know it's not a staple of our system the way it is in his, but still.

I view it as something that will actually open up the receivers for better production, including Mike Wallace.

 

Are you saying that he's had a bunch of well blocked plays from inside the 10 that he should have scored on but didn't?

 

Totally agree.

Check downs are very useful, especially for a team that's struggling to avoid sacks.

 

Thomas is a bust. Hes maybe a guy worth keeping around as a 3rd RB who plays special teams but he's not ever going to be a starter or even a good change of pace guy. We need another RB to go with Miller, I thought we needed another one before the offseason was over but the coaching staff and front office for some unknown reason can't let go of Thomas. I don't know what they are watching, he just does not look good, I never thought he looked like much in the clips people posted after we drafted him so I'm kind of lost as to what we drafted him for or why we can't admit the mistake and move on.

 

It's probably because the guy sucks.

 

Daniel Thomas has issues with executing the block. It means very little to know what to do when you can't execute the assignment. I've seen Daniel Thomas give up at least 2 sacks on the year in one on one pass pro situations. Daniel Thomas has been in pass pro 35 times on the year, and he has given up 5 pressures, 2 of which have been sacks. Lamar Miller has given up 3 pressures in 22 pass pro opportunities. There is very little difference between the two when it comes to pass protection.

I don't have an issue with the coaching staff keeping Lamar's attempt totals in the 12-15 range. What I take issue with is the insistence on playing Daniel Thomas at all. Lamar Miller has played 128 snaps. Daniel Thomas has played 112, which makes Joe's argument disingenuous. What we should be doing instead of trying to defend Thomas's poor play is trying to find a replacement for him.