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PFF Free Agent Tracker/Odrick/Delmas/Clay

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phoenician Fan, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Oh youre so clever.

    If I posted what you just said Id stop logging on altogether, embarrassing amateur third grade level crap. Get some vitamins, drink some water and try to focus on putting together a few sentences that backs up your claim that Odrick is an impactful player worthy of 30 million, and then explain why everyone is looking to draft DT when we already have lots of money invested in that position.

    And you wont, the fact that everyone is looking for a run stuffing DT despite having THREE DT's in the roster while also maintaining Vernon who will need an extension in the future, and Wake. Just on the defensive line alone we would have one of the highest paid defensive lines in the league and they cant stop the run. We already have the highest paid mediocre receivig core and you want to add another highest paid mediocre group to the list?
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Exactly and at 5 years 30 million, Odrick is really just taking over Randy Starks salary. Right now Odrick is a better player than Starks and much better than Michell.

    If he would take 5 years 30 million without wanting to test the market, I think he would be signed already
     
  3. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wasn't it reported that Odrick was unhappy that Mitchell got the 4/16 deal and that Odrick's camp felt that money should have gone towards him?
     
  4. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    One may want to ask if all of the DT's have the same responsibilities as last year or are they being asked to do different things along with logging a great deal of snaps thanks to a 3 man rotation at DT. Just sayin'.
     
  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    A 3 man rotation of Odrick, Mitchell, and Knighton for roughly $16 million a year? Sign me up unless we don't go after Suh.

    This was one of the league's better run defenses when it featured 3 big bodies up front- Odrick, Starks, Soliai. For all the hot air talk about going away from 3 big down linemen in order to become better at rushing the passer, and for all the hot air talk about Olivier Vernon replacing Odrick at RDE which people thought should facilitate that desired increase in sack production, this year's defense had LESS SACKS [39] than the one with Odrick at end [42].... and last year's D equaled it [42]. The tandem of Odrick & Wake produced MORE SACKS [20] than Vernon-Wake this year [17] and the same amount as Vernon-Wake last year [20], except we achieved the same or better pass rush success without having to sacrifice our stout run D. Yeah, mull that over. Wake had his best season in 2012 [15 sacks] with Odrick at DE opposite him. That had a lot to do with Odrick's ability to play 5-tech which allowed Wake to slide over further to play off the edge where he does his best damage instead of too frequently taking on the right tackle like he's had to do with Vernon opposite him. Most importantly, that 2012 defense ranked 7th in scoring as opposed to 20th. Yup, what a bum that Odrick guy is. :lol:
     
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  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    His camp should have been upset. His camp wants the best contract for their client.
     
  7. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Let Odrick walk, keep Mitchell as a rotational guy, cut Starks and several others and go HARD after Suh, then draft Danny Shelton and now you have officially fixed the interior of the DL.
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think we all would agree on that.
     
  9. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Ironic that this is the "PFF Free Agent Tracker" thread that people are b***hing in about re-signing Odrick who just so happens to be one of PFF's highest rated free agent DTs and highest rated 5-tech-capable DT with the exception of Suh. Meanwhile, the member here who believes Odrick is responsible for bludgeoning his dog with a cudgel wants Miami to sign Kendrick Ellis for $3 milion/year [instead of keeping Odrick] who is PFF's 18th rated FA DT. LULZ. Odrick = 20th rated among ALL DTs for the season. Ellis = 18th among just the FA DTs. Double LULZ.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I would rather resign Odrick, go HARD after Suh and draft Shaq Thompson. Then you have DL be a huge strength while bringing along an extremely talented and young linebacker.

    I would then if I need the money cut Misi, and put Shaq in the middle, Jordan strong and have Trip and McCain battle it out for weak. Then you have an extremely athletic defense.

    Edit: Ooops I forgot about Jenkins.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you want him in the middle eh? He's light and very athletic, excellent coverage player, former converted safety..
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    what's your cap on Odrick?
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    With a great middle, he shouldn't have to worry about taking on too many blocks. He is also supposedly has great instincts. I miss having a middle linebacker with great instincts.
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So he has one bad play and you give up on him? Do you hold all other players to the same standards? In 2013 when he was 100% he had many of the best plays made by our offense. Do you not recall the Steelers game and the Chargers game? His ability to do something positive after the catch is the main thing I like about him.
     
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  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    As for drafting one in the 1st, not everyone is looking to do that.

    Unless Odrick re-signs or someone of similar or better quality signs as a free agent, we do not have 3 DTs capable of starting currently on the roster. That is not even considering the possibility that Starks gets cut. It could be Odrick signs elsewhere, and we sign a different DT in free agency, then draft one fairly high, and cut Starks.
    The thing of it is, we are not heading into the offseason as it stands now with 3 proven DTs under contract for 2015.
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    IMO, that does not make sense, since there should be plenty of room to sign Odrick regardless of Mitchell's deal.
     
  17. speed

    speed Banned

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    That was the worst he has had some ugly drops. I am not saying I give up on him but he is not a top TE. Top TEs make that play. I just don't see him getting better.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    In both 2013 and 2014, Odrick got by far the most snaps compared to the other two DTs in the rotation, whether Starks and Soliai in 2013 or Starks and Mitchell in 2014. As much time as he spends on the field comparatively speaking, one could logically ascertain that Odrick is our most valuable DT.
    2014 snaps
    Odrick 817
    Starks 544
    Mitchell 543

    2013 snaps
    Odrick 874
    Starks 742
    Soliai 526

    Edit: I just noticed that the defense played 1069 total snaps in 2014 compared to 1167 in 2013.
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    That wasn't an ugly drop. That was a great play by the defensive player.

    I watched Jimmy Graham drop a similar play. Is he not a top TE?
     
  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Sen'Derrick Marks signed this past FA for 4yr/18M. That's closer to what I think Odrick should get, maybe a bit more for Odrick since he's proven himself for longer than Marks did prior to 2014.

    Also this past FA:
    Lamarr Houston- 5yr/35M [15.0M guaranteed]. better player than Odrick. Both are scheme versatile.
    Arthur Jones- 5yr/33M [16M guaranteed]. smidge better than Odrick. Both are scheme versatile.
    Linvall Joseph- 5yr/31M [12.5M guaranteed]. maybe a hair better than Odrick.
    Henry Melton- 4yr/27M [but only 1.0M guaranteed]. He'll only continue getting paid if he produces significant pressure from the interior.
    Jason Hatcher- 4yr/27M [10.5M guaranteed]. Came off an 11 sack Pro Bowl season.
    Tyson Jackson- 5yr/25M [9.5M guaranteed]
    Randy Starks- 2yr/10M.
    Glenn Dorsey- 2yr/8.7M.
    Earl Mitchell- 4yr/16M [9.0M guaranteed]. Odrick is worth a little more IMO.
    Evander Hood- 4yr/16M [4.0M guaranteed]. Not as good as Odrick.
    Clinton McDonald- 4y/12M [4.7M guaranteed]. One of NFL's best interior nickel rushers in 2013 with the 7th best Pass Rush Productivity among all DTs.

    Tony McDaniel- 2yr/5.7M. This after being one of NFL's best run stuffers in 2013.

    Odrick isn't quite the player Jason Hatcher is but offers more versatility and pass rush production than Tyson Jackson. I think he should be comparable to Starks' 5.0M per year and slightly better than Jackson's contract and with more guaranteed b/c he's been a reliable hard worker and will have a place in whatever scheme we run. So I'll put Jared at 5 yr/27M with 13.5M guaranteed. But I think this could increase to upward of 30M depending on how many 3-4 teams need ends b/c I don't think there are many good ones in FA after Odrick.
     
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  21. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Todd,I was thinking that if we do not trade Vernon, then he can spell Wake and do you think Fede would make a good 5? I think he might depending on the overall defensive set that we are using. I am interested in your opinion. Thanks.
     
  22. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    Clint Boling can make this OL one of the best in football if he comes to Miami.

    Albert-Smith(Turner)-Pouncey-Boling-James is a line to be excited about, especially if we add some depth.
     
  23. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    When healthy he's a stud. He was hurt all year and people forget about some of the ridiculous plays hr made the year before.

    Him and Sims is a good TE combo. Don't f it up
     
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  24. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    I love Shaq Thompson but if we draft him he would have to play more safety roles than LB. We just don't have room for him especially if the scheme changes.
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    There is no scheme change and Miami needs athletic linebackers.
     
  26. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What do you do with Jelani Jenkins?
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    put him in the competition for weakside and having two linebackers who are good at coverage is better than one.
     
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  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I think Vernon can spell Wake, however, I think the better question is- can he spell Wake well enough as the team's top pass rusher to be Cam's heir? I'm not so confident he is. Plus, Cam will still be the starter and playing at a high level in 2016 when Vernon is a FA, so do we really wanna give Vernon a 6+ million salary to be Cam's backup? I know I don't, so I'd rather trade Vernon now while we can get something for him and use those resources to put someone more appropriate at RDE.

    I look at it this way: Vernon is essentially on a 1 year deal right now that won't or shouldn't be extended, and his cap hit is low [860k] so there doesn't need to be a commitment to him. Dennis Hickey's ex draft pick Adrian Clayborn should be attainable for an inexpensive 1 year prove-it deal. So, 1 year of Vernon for 860k?... or 1 year of a RDE for a couple million who is similarly talented but fits the defense better? So what get's lost by trading Vernon? Nothing. We've essentially swapped Vernon for Clayborn at minimal cost, and in the process we've netted ourselves an additional 3rd or possibly high 2nd round draft pick. Where do I sign up? With that pick, we can double-down by drafting Arik Armstead in round 2 to have ready for next year's seamless transition. Now we have 2 more-appropriate RDE's instead of 1 inappropriate RDE, with one of the new DE's being the long term solution. If we keep Vernon in 2015, he'll be gone in FA after the season and we'll be left spending one of our own valuable draft picks on his replacement, so why not get his replacement for almost free? A great GM would work a roster like this IMO.

    Now, if JPP is available, I'd target him heavily b/c he's gonna want a short contract, one which he'll easily outperform if he stays healthy which he did last year. That would give us 2-3 years to find and groom his future replacement while also improving the defense significantly.
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Do you want Jenkins moved to ILB? Through the first half of the season he was PFF's 3rd highest graded OLB and he looked fantastic there. If we need a middle linebacker, then shouldn't we be looking for a middle linebacker rather than making this circuitous effort? Draft Stephone Anthony in round 3 to play Mike and be done with it. It's like all the eye focus goes directly to Vic Beasley when watching Clemson and people don't realize there's a stud 3-down backer in the middle.
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    No, I want Shaq Thompson to be MLB.
     
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  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would be a bit concerned with Shaq Thompson, given you're relying on this coaching staff to appropriately slot linebackers in their appropriate positions and adjust accordingly, as well as giving them another guy whose flexibility will probably get them lost in the weeds again.
     
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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    That is a concern.
     
  33. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I've watched a little bit of Benardrick McKinney since he's being mentioned on this board. I would rather have him at this point than Shaq, tbh. I'll have to watch more of him, but so far he looks like a freak of nature on the football field. Don't know if he'll be available at 14 though.
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's not happening. He's a tweener. He's a linebacker-safety hybrid. The most physically demanding role he can perform is a Will, and there's a chance that even might be too much, so playing Mike is out of the question. Arthur Brown has had trouble adjusting to the NFL and he's stouter than Shaq. A defense that can't stop the run and generates inconsistent pressure should probably be looking at addresses those two areas rather than making one of them worse IMO.

    Personally, if I'm gonna spend a 1st on a guy who might only be a nickel player, it's gonna be Vic Beasley who at least rushes the passes. We'd have to change our scheme for Shaq to something like Zona runs where they're base D is nickel IIRC.
     
  35. Tannedank

    Tannedank Banned

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    Good thing your not my gm.
     
  36. Tannedank

    Tannedank Banned

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    If we lose Odrick AND DON'T have an EXCELLENT plan to replace him were f*****. Good thing your not our gm either. I get Odrick has his flaws and we shouldn't overpay. But anyone saying "oh he's a JAG and can easily be replaced" better have solid, concrete ideas in mind on doing so because a Jared Odrick type player isn't that easy to replace. Suh no doubt, but talk about price tag then. I'm guessing the other options in fa FROM A FOOTBALL PERSPECTIVE aren't really gonna upgrade the position. Talk numbers all you want but that's all it is, talk. You people aren't gm's and don't know s*** about contracts and player value. Just saying, if your gonna advocate not resigning one of our young, productive first rounders, give me better reasons and plans than, he's not worth "X" dollars based on your opinion. Provide realistic alternatives!
     
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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    He isn't that small. Patrick Willis is only 12 pounds heavier.

    I don't think it would be making them worse. For one my plan is to shore up the defensive line, which should help with getting pressure and stopping the run.

    He is also a playmaker. Miami needs playmakers. I am sick of taking non-playmaker in the first round.
     
  38. Tannedank

    Tannedank Banned

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    The way I see it, we need to either resign Odrick or get Suh. Getting Suh, of course, is a little easier said than done. If we just let Odrick walk and for whatever reason don't sign Suh, were probably downgrading at the position and/or going into the draft with an obvious, glaring need at the position. Generally, not a very smart plan. I'm not saying Odrick is the s***, i'm saying he's probably better than the vast majority of other ALTERNATIVES out there and we don't need to take a step backwards.
     
  39. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Odrick needs to be retained, he's the priority this offseason in my opinion as far as our own free agents go. We will not be able to replace him if we let him walk, and don't say "sign Suh" because that is a pipe dream...Not happening. Odrick is one of the better DT's in the league and needs to be paid.
     
  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it's plausible the Dolphins would agree with you, there. If they're going to go after a linebacker, the biggest need is ILB, and McKinney is more the body-style Coyle prefers.

    He reminds me a bit of Karlos Dansby without the same ball skills, though.
     

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