per Saban Wildcat creates an "11th Gap" for the offense

Do you have a link. At work and want to give this a thorough read later.

Thanks for the post! This stuff intrigues me.

 

Saban still has yet to figure out a way to stop Urban Meyer's offense.

And if Saban can't stop the spread option, then nobody will be able to. Atleast not any time soon.

 

I don't think it's a given that defenses will catch up. Spread offenses put players in more one on one situations. The result is that when both the offense and defense do everything right it comes down to athleticism. It's one on one in the whole, which player wins.

The defenses will end up having more hybrid type players, S/LB types, to counter the QB/RB types. IMO that's the only possible response once NFL spread offenses get good enough to run a balanced attack.

 

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Deconstructing-How-the-Hokie-D-becomes-deadlier?urn=ncaaf,178348

Thought I would add that to the thread. Not about defending the Wildcat, or spread-option, but more about defending the spread. I think you will see this type of stuff from us this season.

 

If Pat White connects on a few big passes out of the Wildcat early in the year it will force defenses to respect the pass and should really improve the effectiveness of the formation.

 

I'm not sure if there's a way to schematically stop the Gator offense, especially in the NFL. Like Gruden said, "NFL defenses are bringing the S up to fill in the last open gap, that leaves the WRs one on one". It comes down to can my OL block and can the QB make the right read (run or pass and get rid of the ball quickly and accurately).

NFL WRs are expected to be able to beat one on one coverage. Also one on one coverage is easier for the QB to read. If I'm the DC and I bring up my S to fill the gap. Let's say my D fills the gaps perfectly so the QB makes the right read and holds the ball to pass. It's only a matter of time until the WR gets open against single coverage (particularly in the NFL where the PI rules are so slanted towards the WRs). I tell my S to blitz the QB so he and the WRs have less time. Assuming equally athletic offensive and defensive players the offense usually has a slight advantage when everybody makes perfect decisions.

I think that's Saban's problem against UF. At best he can get equal athletes and coach them to make the right decisions. As long as Meyer's guys make the right decisions the offense has the advantage. Of course, Saban's guys should have the advantage when they're on offense too. IMO Meyer is a better offensive coach and he's better at picking guys who fit what he wants to do.

 

I certainly agree. A dual-threat QB pretty much takes away the one-man advantage defenses had. Now its single coverage in the secondary.

The only way to stop it is to have a safety that can play up on the line, but can drop back into coverage fast enough. Basically Troy Palamalu. But even then, stopping the offense is a difficult proposition.

The way I see it, this season there are going to be a good amount of NFL teams putting up 30+ points per week.

 

Very true, which is why I think we have so much $$$ invested into our OL.

 

The Ginn pick is looking better and better. Not only is he progressing well as a player, but his skill set will give him the opportunity to have a great year.

If he can get off the bump more effectively this year, his speed and route running progression could leave him open 20+ yards down the field on many occasions. There is a great chance he can torch defenses this year for long touchdowns. Even if the throw isn't beyone 20 yards, if he catches a quick slant 15 yards down the field, there won't be many players in the area to tackle him. His track speed will then take him to the house.

 

It all keeps coming back to the OL and their execution. If our OL was run blocking well enough in our standard O last season, the NFL wouldn't have even seen the WildCat.

Pat White gives us more options and takes away DC's stacking the box, but unless the OL keeps the opposing DL out of the backfield, even PW can't help the WC. If our OL dramatically improves this season, particularly run blocking, then; 1. we see less of the WC, and 2. the WC works better when we do see it.

 

In the red zone, I agree with you - look at the "Pat White QB Profile" thread for numerous examples . Otherwise, there is plenty of space and man coverage for Ginn to shine with PW taking snaps in all other situations. Granted, for a 3rd and long, yes Turner can be a valuable asset, or safety blanket for PW.

 

Well, it depends. If they achieve 'pressure' by sending the farm, it will open up screens. They are going to have to achieve pressure with 8 guys in the box.

 

I just re-watched that last week. At least Pennington didn't get a concussion.

 

Urbane crier teaching him how to run the offense, lil' Nicky satan teaching him how to defend it... drafted a kid to run it for his scout team.. does anyone think BB is taking this lightly?

 

Haha you jest.

Pennington obviously at fault for that one ...

 

The anticipation is starting to kill me. I can't get enough of PW youtube vids.

If he can come in and run the WC offense effectively, we will def. be an offense to be reckoned with. And here is an advanced 'get out of here' to the NFL network with their gimmick this, trick play that.

 

Who here doubts Saban's WC analysis shared with the SEC has been developed with his butt buddy, Belicheat?

 

The entire offense including the Wildcat will be very interesting to watch this year. Just when you thought knew what was coming, they are going to surprise you with something else. It just may throw off every defense Miami plays against. If that OL gets better week in and week out, it will be very hard to stop this potentially high powered offense. It is no doubt going to be fun to watch.

 

not sure iam followin you here Padre..Pat will enter when its wildcat time, whether hes running it or ronnies running it,they both HAVE to be on the field at the same time. Chad will be on the sideline during that time, which i estimate being a bit more then the ratio that was used last year.

 

I didn't know we still have Chambers.

Good point though. But, I don't think this regime will put Pennington on the field just to put Pennington on the field. If P.White can dominate a game, or defenses can't stop our spread offense, why even consider it? I wouldn't hesitate to play P.White all season if he can cope with NFL reads and such.

EDIT: What I meant to say was; if we bring in the WC for lets say the first posession of the second half, at our own 30 yard line, and we start with P.White and the WC, and P.White is moving us down the field, why even bring in our base offense? Who cares about the ratio. If we are successful, leave P.White in there, even if that means he is taking more snaps than Pennington. Unlikely, I know, but still...

 

Any team that excels at creating pressure up front stands a good chance of beating the spread, along with any other offense.

I think Dungy's Buccaneers, with athletic, penetrating tackles and athletic DE's, zone coverage and overall physical/athletic style would be as well equipped as anyone. Though they weren't facing the spread offense, the Bucs routinely beat up and corralled the ultimate dual threat QB -- Michael Vick -- with pressure.

Of course, we're talking about high level spread offenses against a high level defenses here. Just because you're running the spread doesn't mean you're running it well. But overall, we could see a shift in personnel towards smaller, more athletic players at certain defensive positions.

 

When the Ravens beat us with penetration it really wasn't anything schematic. We had enough players to block the rushers. We just failed to do so. Their defenders were beating one on one blocks primarily in the interior line.

 

That is how you stop the I formation, the Pro formation and even the shot gun. If you can get defenders penetrating from the middle, then even the shot gun will have problems.

It is basically how you stop any formation. If you have a defense who man on man can consistantly beat the man in front of them, no offense would work. If there was an offense that existed every team would run it.

 

Exactly, that's why I don't understand why people keep saying the Ravens figured out a scheme to stop the WC. They didn't, unless you count "playing better than the other team" a scheme.

 

I told you so: had White drafted (by Miami) by the 4th round & continue w/ my prediction of the SingleWing/Spread (WildCat) going from gimmick to co-offense. Pat White will be a starter this year, he will captain the WildCat.

What year! Jason Taylor & Pat White in a single move!

 

Which is why I think we take developmental guys like Folsom, who is undersized for a typical 3-4 LB. He's more of a LB/Safety hybrid.

I'm sure the Pat's drafting Chung isn;t far off this either, though Chung is more safety, with some linebacker in him.

I think those tweener LB/Safeties will find more work as the spread spreads. lol.

 

I agree. We used Bell in lieu of Ayodele on passing downs last season. I think we'll use Wilson there this year as well.

 

There's only one way I can see to scheme against it.

The spread/option has the advantage of the offense deciding very late into a play which option of several it wants to take. It's this late spontaneity that kills defenses. Bring up the safety, we throw, leave him back we run.

The keys are too easy for an offense.

So the D scheme must find a way to absolutely force the offense to do one or the other (removing the option and at least knowing what to expect... such as comminting to stopping the run and giving up the pass). You do this to force the offense to pass if you have GREAT corners. If you have a bad secondary but great fron seven, you play coverage and force the run. If both are bad, you simply have a crap defense and don;t deserve to win anyways.

So a defense must pick their poison and at least put the onus of one-on-one battles on the area of their Defense that has the most talent.

The SECOND way would be to make the 'easy keys' impossible to read.

You know how the 3-4 is great for rushing QB's because the O-line never knows WHICH guys are coming? It's not clear who is designated as a rusher. Well, you have to disguise defenses similarly to remove spread option keys.

If it is clear WHO is the free safety and who is the ILB, then you can key of them easily. The more similar and interchangeable the players roles become, the less you can key off "they safety" because ANY of a number of players could drop deep.,

For example, if we have Gibril Wilson in a quarters, but Folsom in front of him and WIlson actually takes run responsibity while the "Linebacker" drops deep, then its hard for the QB/runningback/ballhandler to make the instant read they need.

Who should they look at? If the field has four similar players across the back and four more shallow, but ANY of them could come up or drop, then it's real damned hard to know who your keys are... that means its hard and slow to make a read.

If the spread and the spread option continue to take hold in the NFL, expect to see the size and speed differences between Linebackers and Safeties (and to some degree CBs) lessen somewhat. You need hybrids. Note that our secondary players are getting bigger this year, and that we picked up a fast, undersized LB in Folsom who probably won;t make the team, but may make the Practice Squad. People wondered why we'd waste our time on a guy like Folsom, and I say it's because he represents a physical type and hybrid skill set that will be one of the emergent 'solutions' to spread option, wildcat football. He's an experiment for us.


Smallers LBs and larger DBs also means, imo, that D-lines would have to get a bit bigger again to stuff the run with less linebacker help.

If the spread spreads, our bodytype templates will change.

 

If John Lynch were 5 years younger, he'd be perfect in terms of his linebacker mentality but coverage abilities. Also, 6'2", 220lbs. That's what we're lookin' at for Defenses to combat a throwing spread option like the Pat White Wildcat.

Interestng that the pats had him but dropped him last season before ever seeing the Wildcat. He strikes me as the type of player who would be perfect against a throwing spread option.

But he's too old now.

 

The biggest thing Ginn could do to help himself, imo, is get very good at having the strength and technique to get off the jam at the LOS. If he can do THAT he can otclass DBs with his speed.

He just gets held up and jiggled around too much to get his stride going until it's too late.

If Ted comes back with significantly more UPPER body strength and some hand-fighting techniques, I think we'll see him routinely running deep behind coverages.