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Per NFL Network: Seattle & Miami showing interest in Moss

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CANEPHINS, Nov 1, 2010.

  1. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree.

    The lack of a true vertical threat is hampering the offense, beyond the poor playcalling.

    Moss and MArshall are two of the best red zone receivers of the last decade. Even Henning can figure that out
     
  2. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    i'm with DHPVW here.... as great as it would be to have Moss, that doesn't mean we're going to suddenly start scoring TD's. That was supposed to happen when we added Marshall in the offseason.

    I think our offense needs some serious fixing, and Moss won't fix all of it. He'd help, sure, but it's not like we'll magically start scoring with Moss here.
     
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  3. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Why not? There's only 11 people on an offense, not 79. Like CK pointed out, for which I agree 100% on, it's pretty hard to score when we don't have the capability of picking up quality chunk yardage. A TD instead of a FG once a game will go a long way in our season. We're not having a problem scoring; we're having a problem scoring TDs..... and if a guy who's scored 52 of them the past 3.5 seasons cant help, then there's a problem. So should we just sit back and watch Henne not being able to use one of his assets?.... his strong arm.
     
  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I do agree that having a deep threat would help, however I can think of 4 plays that should have been touchdowns and a fifth play that I do not understand why it hasn't been tried again because it almost resulted in a touchdown.

    Edit: By should I mean the play was there, the execution was not
     
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  5. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Yup, we are scoring a ton of times. 12 times in the past two weeks is probably as close to as many times as anyone else, if not more.
     
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  6. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    I don't disagree with any of that. But Ronnie, Ricky, and Marshall are all TD machines from previous years too. If you think Moss coming here magically fixes our offense, that means you have no faith in Marshall, Ricky, or Ronnie to be playmakers.

    You're also admitting that Henne needs two pro-bowl WR's to put the ball in the endzone.

    I disagree with all that. I think we have execution and play-calling issues, neither of which Moss will fix :up:
     
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  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    What happened is we got rid of our vertical threat who ties everything together. Why should defenses worry about covering the deep part of the field when we pose little threat at WR or TE to catch passes there? Be realistic here.
     
  8. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    What have you been watching? We've faced more cover-2 than anything else this year.

    I'm also not sure what you mean by "ties everything together". Our offense is much more efficient now than when we had whatever you're referring to.
     
  9. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I agree, but I also feel it's stressful to have to operate at such a high level of execution for 16 games/season. A few bigger plays here and there can really ease the burden IMO.

    We were beating Pitt's butt..... and then, boom, 1 quick deep strike to Wallace and our momentum was pretty much halted.
     
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Isn't the weakness of Cover 2 the deep middle of the field? Maybe I'm way wrong, or maybe I play too much Madden, but that's where I thought the weakness was. So, since we don't have a legit deep threat, and we don't have a TE who can get up the middle and catch passes, Cover 2 is a pretty damn good defense to run, cause it covers the flats and all the short/middle stuff.
     
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Who says we don't have a legit deep threat? Who says there aren't players open down-field already?
     
  12. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Cover 2 issues are trips, verticals, area between safeties and MIKE as well as the area between the cornerback and safety.

    EDIT: I've missed the last two weeks of the Dolphins games but I have to ask, have we ran any smash concepts?
     
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  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I have faith in them..... but that doesn't mean we can't make it easier for them to achieve even greater production. There's nothing that says: "we have to make do with what we have".

    I also don't feel Henne needs 2 probowlers.... but he (and Marshall, Bess, R&R, Fasano) do need a deep threat to create more space to work with, not to mention we'd be wasting his arm..... and the last I checked, Moss is probably the only viable option on the market for such. We wouldn't have as many execution issues if we didn't have to execute at such a high level. Trying to get a TD out of a 12 play drive is much more difficult than getting a TD out of a 5 play drive. It's simple probability. There more times you have to do something, the greater your chance of error. If I continue to lay under a coconut tree, eventually I'm gonna get clunked on the head.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Our problem is we are one dimensional, its just that unlike the past couple of years we were one dimensional as a running team, now we are a short passing team. That's why the wildcat was effective before, and it isn't now.

    Our problem is run blocking. We run block better, we score TDs.
     
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  15. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    And Moss would have been Wallace's shadow on that play, right? :wink2:
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Are you saying that you think that Hartline has the speed to be a legit deep threat? Bess isn't, and Marshall's strength isn't speed. I am simply saying that we don't really have a speed receiver. Do we have a receiver who can do to us what Wallace did to us in the Pittsburgh game? IMO, we don't.
     
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  17. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    This.

    Unless Moss can pull & be a road-grater, I don't know how much help he will ultimately be. This isn't 1998 after all; his best use now is as a decoy.... well that and dropping passes in the endzone, but we have Wallace for that. :up:
     
  18. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Run blocking isn't too shabby. Watch Sunday's game. We get a decent push on just about any given run play. The problem with the running game is a complete lack of creativity. The Bengals aggressively run blitzed the middle and yet we tried to pound it though there again and again. Lo and behold, along comes the third quarter and the first off tackle run - after an endaround - and we get huge chunks of yardage. I understand that they want to be a smashmouth team but we're calling a 1985 run game.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Right, that's basically what I was getting at, for the weakness. It's pretty much where I thought it was. It's pretty apparent that we can't attack that part of the field with what we have, given that we aren't doing it...or maybe we just aren't calling the plays that attack those areas...but if we had the personel to attack those areas, don't you think we would?
     
  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Ties everything together as far as maximizing space and keeping defenses honest. Just b/c we play cover 2's doesn't mean defenses are worried about defending the vertical threat does it? I'm not saying we were better with speed (Ginn) than Marshall. This isnt about 1 or the other...... it's about utilizing both. And you cant say that we're as efficient as we should be b/c we haven't seen this year's team operate with a true deep treat. If you mean efficient as in 13th in YPG but 23rd in points..... or 1 TD per every 5 FGs, then I would respectfully have to disagree with you.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I'm saying that this offense has had 'speed' receivers, and they didn't make much of a difference. Maybe the issue isn't the lack of a 'speed receiver'. I surely don't think Mike Wallace or Randy Moss would help Henne be more patient or have better presence in the pocket, or be more accurate on throws in the red zone. Right now the issue with our offense isn't WRs, nevertheless ones that run routes which have a low rate of success.
     
  22. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Our 4.5 best speedster Hartline does. :shifty:
     
  23. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Are you seriously arguing that 4.5 Hartline is slower than 33 year old Randy? Seriously?
     
  24. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Not necessarily. The middle of the field isn't exactly an area which Dan Henning likes to attack. He's made that known before. He's used multiple WR sets this year too, so its not something we're lacking. In my opinion, what we are lacking is a seam busting tight end. Some may disagree but while I like Fasano, we need another guy that can at least pose a threat in the middle of the field.
     
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  25. IronChef

    IronChef New Member

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    Guys none of this even matters. Randy Moss will be a St Louis Ram come tomorrow evening...
     
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  26. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    I don't think Randy is faster than Hartline at his current age, but Moss is most definitely better at putting the moves on DB's and can act as a decoy, something Hartline cannot.

    That said, Hartline has been open deep plenty this year and Henne hasn't found him. We also haven't been calling too many deep passing plays; and we haven't been successful at least since the Vikings game that I can recall.

    Does bringing Moss here fix all that? I'm not so sure, unless we change our play-calling ethos because Moss arrives...
     
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  27. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Apparently you didn't see Moss make a long 1 handed TD on Revis this year. :pity:

    So you're insinuating that Moss isn't a deep threat? :unsure:
     
  28. IronChef

    IronChef New Member

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    Seriously guys,none of this even matters. Randy Moss will be a St Louis Ram come tomorrow evening...
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Henne isn't patient enough? How long does he have to hold onto the ball? Against Pitt and Cinci, he was holding onto the ball forever. Of course, when you run two WR sets, it's really hard to find an open receiver. I really don't see how you can deny that having someone like Randy Moss or Wallace doesn't make the defense play differently. Someone who can flat out outrun the CB or Safety makes the defense play differently. Hartline isn't going to outrun anybody.
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well, if Henning doesn't want to call plays that attack the weak spots in the coverages that we are facing, then he isn't really calling good games now is he?

    And I agree that we need a seam busting tight end. I said as much.
     
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  31. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Lets get them on the field and find out...... but the last I checked, Hart hasn't burned Revis deep for a TD this year.
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It isn't even so much about Moss vs Hartline. It's *any speed receiver vs Hartline. We need a speed receiver who doesn't drop balls.
     
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  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It absolutely does.

    The thing about points, is that you only need to score more than your opponent. A good way of doing this is keeping your opponent off the field. The more time you run off the clock, the less opportunities your opponent has to score. There is a reason why you hear Tony Sparano reference "rushes plus completions" as something they look at.

    Now Randy Moss probably would likely increase our overall offensive output. But how would changing the offense affect the defense? Would it make our offense less efficient? Would it make Henne more accurate on his throws in the red zone?
     
  34. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    I most certainly think Moss is a deep threat, I'm just saying I don't think he'll solve our scoring problems. Would he help with chunk yardage? Yeah, sure. But it's the fact that he can have the 3 catches for 30 yards, 1 catch for 8 yards, 2 for 24, etc games that worries me as those tend to be the norm.

    The play you speak of was from his best game this year: 4 catches for 81 yards. If he produced that kind of play every week, sure I'd want to sign up.

    Instead, he's averaging 2.75 catches a game for 39 yards. He has better TD numbers than our guys, but that's a function of the offenses he was in. He had Tom Brady throwing him TD's in one offense, and the other had Favre and Adrian Peterson to help draw defenders into the box. We have play-calling and execution issues, neither of which Moss would fix.

    I think he'd add value, but my point is he won't solve our problems. :up:
     
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  35. IronChef

    IronChef New Member

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    Guys!!!!!! Who cares!!! Randy moss will be a st louis ram!!!
     
  36. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    It's not the play calling (which, incidentally, is also why I think that most of the Dan Henning criticism around these parts is nonsense). It's a matter of fundamental philosophy. They don't particularly want to go all deep more than once or twice a game. They want a methodical, time consuming, my guys are tougher than your guys kind of game. They don't particularly want TDs. They are fine with FGs as long as the game stays within reach. This is fundamental "play not to lose" ball. It seems like - and Henning as hinted at as much in his interviews - that they are always more afraid of what they could potentially do to themselves than of what the opponent could do to them. I'm afraid that most of our "issues" we've been debating here are fundamentally engrained in the personality of this coaching staff with Sparano on top. For better or worse.
     
  37. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Again, not necessarily. I think for the most part, Henning has done well this year. He's attacked teams well. He still sends guys in the areas of weakness of the opposition. Just look at the deep ball to Marshall against Minnesota weeks ago. They were in Man-Free and he had three receivers, a Twin set and then a single receiver opposite of them. He sends Brian Hartline, who was the #2, on a post to occupy the safety in the MOF and then sends Marshall on a 9 route. He beat the cornerback at the line and the play was completed, for something like 46 yards IIRC. Against the Jets, he attacked their weaknesses well. He attacked Buffalo well. Against NE, I thought he had the right idea but the execution wasn't great.
     
  38. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    There are faster receivers out there that haven't burned Revis for a TD this year as well. While it's a good goal to beat Revis deep, that is not the best measuring stick when comparing.
     
  39. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Dude...we get the point you are trying to convey. Stop spamming our boards please....
     
  40. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Is the repetition necessary? :)
     

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