Pats Owner Robert Kraft charged in Prostitution sting in South Florida

God I’m so happy to see this happen to the NFLs golden owner.

I’m sure someone of such high moral character would never cheat to win championships either.

South Florida will eventually and assuredly take down the Patriots one way, or another!

So does this cancel out the dirty pictures they have of Goodell??? Back to an even playing field finally???

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

Unless BB or a player were there...this will have ZERO impact on NE football. Business as usual for that franchise.

I'm not so sure since this is HIGHLY political. The media could make Kraft the poster boy for sex trafficking- that's unfair but it's also the world we live in today. That puts massive pressure on Goodell and other owners to sell the franchise. I mean, we've seen an NBA and NFL team forced for sale over racist comments....this is another level entirely and a huge embarrassment to the league.

Kraft will never be talked about the same way again- not with today's media. And if Kraft goes, who knows who follows him out the door.

"Mcduffie81 wrote:

God I’m so happy to see this happen to the NFLs golden owner.

I’m sure someone of such high moral character would never cheat to win championships either.

I'm just waiting for TMZ to leak the video....no idea how they get their hands on that stuff but they do. Once it's out there, things will turn ugly in a hurry.

"KeyFin wrote:

I'm not so sure since this is HIGHLY political. The media could make Kraft the poster boy for sex trafficking- that's unfair but it's also the world we live in today. That puts massive pressure on Goodell and other owners to sell the franchise. I mean, we've seen an NBA and NFL team forced for sale over racist comments....this is another level entirely and a huge embarrassment to the league.

Kraft will never be talked about the same way again- not with today's media. And if Kraft goes, who knows who follows him out the door.

How is that unfair?

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

How is that unfair?

Because he's not trafficking women- he just had sex with two of them. We can't discuss the politics here but this will ultimately be a much much bigger news story because of Kraft's relationship with Trump. I think within the next few weeks the media will make him out to be the scum of the Earth and he'll probably be laughed out of football.

Is that unfair? Maybe. I don't feel bad because of the crap the Pats have pulled over the years- to me it's pure karma. Once the media sees a story angle that will sell, they're freaking ruthless in the court of public opinion. Do I feel he should be in trouble though? Heck yes I do! Those young girls were someone's daughter that came to America with big hopes and dreams. Places like Asian massage parlors should not exist in America...it's basically slavery. It disgusts me to think that a person with his influence goes to places like that. I don't care if his wife did just die- let him go to Vegas for willing whores if that's what he is into.

"KeyFin wrote:

Because he's not trafficking women- he just had sex with two of them. We can't discuss the politics here but this will ultimately be a much much bigger news story because of Kraft's relationship with Trump. I think within the next few weeks the media will make him out to be the scum of the Earth and he'll probably be laughed out of football.

Is that unfair? Maybe. I don't feel bad because of the crap the Pats have pulled over the years- to me it's pure karma. Once the media sees a story angle that will sell, they're freaking ruthless in the court of public opinion. Do I feel he should be in trouble though? Heck yes I do! Those young girls were someone's daughter that came to America with big hopes and dreams. Places like Asian massage parlors should not exist in America...it's basically slavery. It disgusts me to think that a person with his influence goes to places like that. I don't care if his wife did just die- let him go to Vegas for willing whores if that's what he is into.

Would legalizing prostitution stop sex-trafficking in the USA? If so, then I might be all for it.

"KeyFin wrote:

Because he's not trafficking women- he just had sex with two of them. We can't discuss the politics here but this will ultimately be a much much bigger news story because of Kraft's relationship with Trump. I think within the next few weeks the media will make him out to be the scum of the Earth and he'll probably be laughed out of football.

Is that unfair? Maybe. I don't feel bad because of the crap the Pats have pulled over the years- to me it's pure karma. Once the media sees a story angle that will sell, they're freaking ruthless in the court of public opinion. Do I feel he should be in trouble though? Heck yes I do! Those young girls were someone's daughter that came to America with big hopes and dreams. Places like Asian massage parlors should not exist in America...it's basically slavery. It disgusts me to think that a person with his influence goes to places like that. I don't care if his wife did just die- let him go to Vegas for willing whores if that's what he is into.

He did not enslave the women? He just had sex with them? Have sex with slaves, whatever happens to him, is completely fair.

Short but good summary article with the right perspective on this:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/22/robert-kraft-charged-soliticating-prostitution-human-trafficking

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

Would legalizing prostitution stop sex-trafficking in the USA? If so, then I might be all for it.

That may just quadruple it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/us/robert-kraft-trafficking-florida.html

Worth a read.

"By Patricia Mazzei

JUPITER, Fla. — Something was amiss at a massage parlor near one of the wealthiest barrier islands in Florida.

First, a health inspector spotted several suitcases. Then she noticed an unusual stash of clothing, food and bedding. A young woman who was supposed to be a massage therapist spoke little English and seemed unusually nervous.

The inspector reported her findings to the police. They would eventually learn that her suspicions were right: The women were not just employees: They were living in the day spa, sleeping on massage tables and cooking meals on hot plates in the back. Some of them had had their passports confiscated.

The inspector’s suspicions prompted a sprawling investigation across four Florida counties and two states — Florida and New York — over nearly eight months, resulting in the disruption of what authorities say was a multimillion-dollar human-trafficking and prostitution operation.

Robert K. Kraft, the billionaire owner of the New England Patriots; John Havens, former president and chief operating officer of Citigroup; and John Childs, founder of the private equity firm J.W. Childs Associates.

Beyond the lurid celebrity connection, however, lies the wretched story of women who the police believe were brought from China under false promises of new lives and legitimate spa jobs. Instead, they found themselves trapped in the austere back rooms of strip-mall brothels — trafficking victims trapped among South Florida’s rich and famous..."

I just wonder how a billionaire even finds this place. He must have had it recommended by someone no way he just wandered in by mistake. He can have a private therapist anytime come to his home. Why on earth go to a strip mall in Jupiter and not some high class place in Palm Beach? Im sure there is more to this story and i bet it wasn't just twice.

"Dolphin Dundee wrote:

I just wonder how a billionaire even finds this place. He must have had it recommended by someone no way he just wandered in by mistake. He can have a private therapist anytime come to his home. Why on earth go to a strip mall in Jupiter and not some high class place in Palm Beach? Im sure there is more to this story and i bet it wasn't just twice.

John Childs of J. W. Childs is also facing the same charges, although it's unclear whether it's for the same location.

Here's the thing. No woman in their right mind enjoys having sex with strangers for money. Sure, they may try to fool people with the "It's just sex and the money is great" routine, but deep down they are miserable. Everyone from the sex slaves making $50 bucks a trick to the high end call girls making $5000 per night hates what they do and would rather be doing something else. Can you imagine being forced to have sex with people you don't want to have sex with?

And Kraft, a billionaire, who has a GF 40 years his junior and most likely others, who are NOT sex slaves and willing to do whatever he wants, knew damn well what these women are going through and he said "Fuck it. Take my money". He's a POS.

Paying women for sex is barely one step above rape, and in a lot of instances it is exactly like rape, IMO.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

Would legalizing prostitution stop sex-trafficking in the USA? If so, then I might be all for it.

IMO it would be a step. I think it's naive to believe we can ever eliminate the world's oldest profession by making it illegal. Like Prohibition proved, making something illegal that people want to and will do anyways will just push it into the shadows. The better choice it is to have it out in the open. Tax it, establish work place standards, etc. This gives the current victims choice and power and gives law enforcement more effective means to monitor, prosecute and eventually weed out the bad actors.

"danmarino wrote:

Here's the thing. No woman in their right mind enjoys having sex with strangers for money. Sure, they may try to fool people with the "It's just sex and the money is great" routine, but deep down they are miserable. Everyone from the sex slaves making $50 bucks a trick to the high end call girls making $5000 per night hates what they do and would rather be doing something else. Can you imagine being forced to have sex with people you don't want to have sex with?

And Kraft, a billionaire, who has a GF 40 years his junior and most likely others, who are NOT sex slaves and willing to do whatever he wants, knew damn well what these women are going through and he said "**** it. Take my money". He's a POS.

Paying women for sex is barely one step above rape, and in a lot of instances it is exactly like rape, IMO.

That's only you're opinion and your morals being placed on others. I can't pretend to know what every woman thinks, but I know enough to recognize that different women will have different opinions. And I would never be so presumptuous as to claim that I am going to decide for them what they can and can't do or what makes them happy or miserable.

"rafael wrote:

That's only you're opinion and your morals being placed on others. I can't pretend to know what every woman thinks, but I know enough to recognize that different women will have different opinions. And I would never be so presumptuous as to claim that I am going to decide for them what they can and can't do or what makes them happy or miserable.

I'm not basing anything on morals. And I stand by my "No woman in her right mind..." comment.

Some dudes like to have their nuts stomped on. They get off on the pain. Some people like to eat shit straight from the tap. Some women shove sea creatures inside of themselves....Something is wrong with these people. Of course there may be a few exceptions to this rule, as there are with everything in life, but my point still stands. No woman in her right mind enjoys being a prostitute. They do it out of necessity or they are forced. It's like the mentally ill homeless person who claims that he loves the freedom of living on the streets. BS...he's got mental problems.

"danmarino wrote:

I'm not basing anything on morals. And I stand by my "No woman in her right mind..." comment.

Some dudes like to have their nuts stomped on. They get off on the pain. Some people like to eat **** straight from the tap. Some women shove sea creatures inside of themselves....Something is wrong with these people. Of course there may be a few exceptions to this rule, as there are with everything in life, but my point still stands. No woman in her right mind enjoys being a prostitute. They do it out of necessity or they are forced. It's like the mentally ill homeless person who claims that he loves the freedom of living on the streets. BS...he's got mental problems.

That is the worst comparison I have seen

Obviously a moral judgement.

Just a friendly warning... let's not wander too far.

"danmarino wrote:

I'm not basing anything on morals. And I stand by my "No woman in her right mind..." comment.

Some dudes like to have their nuts stomped on. They get off on the pain. Some people like to eat **** straight from the tap. Some women shove sea creatures inside of themselves....Something is wrong with these people. Of course there may be a few exceptions to this rule, as there are with everything in life, but my point still stands. No woman in her right mind enjoys being a prostitute. They do it out of necessity or they are forced. It's like the mentally ill homeless person who claims that he loves the freedom of living on the streets. BS...he's got mental problems.

Two things. One, you're not a woman and even if you were, you would still be telling them what every other woman should think. Two, unilaterally deciding that something must be wrong with people who enjoy something different than you is you imposing your beliefs.

I was a loan officer at one point and did some loans for a couple of women who worked in brothels. After completing that first difficult loan, others contacted me seeing if they could do the same so I met several brothel workers. My impression was that these women were there for varied reasons. Some were doing it temporarily and some had been doing it for a decade or more. Some had outside businesses or other sources of income and were not doing it out of financial necessity. These were legal, regulated brothels so this was not a slavery thing. None of the ones I spoke with felt they had no other options. All of the ones I met had at some point had normal office or sales jobs and felt they could still if they wanted. They simply made the decision that working in a brothel was better for them for whatever reason. Usually it was a combination of financial, flexibility and enjoying the work more. If any of them had any mental issues, I didn't see them as any worse or more pronounced than what I see in the typical office.

"rafael wrote:

Two things. One, you're not a woman and even if you were, you would still be telling them what every other woman should think. Two, unilaterally deciding that something must be wrong with people who enjoy something different than you is you imposing your beliefs.

I was a loan officer at one point and did some loans for a couple of women who worked in brothels. After completing that first difficult loan, others contacted me seeing if they could do the same so I met several brothel workers. My impression was that these women were there for varied reasons. Some were doing it temporarily and some had been doing it for a decade or more. Some had outside businesses or other sources of income and were not doing it out of financial necessity. These were legal, regulated brothels so this was not a slavery thing. None of the ones I spoke with felt they had no other options. All of the ones I met had at some point had normal office or sales jobs and felt they could still if they wanted. They simply made the decision that working in a brothel was better for them for whatever reason. Usually it was a combination of financial, flexibility and enjoying the work more. If any of them had any mental issues, I didn't see them as any worse or more pronounced than what I see in the typical office.

So because I'm not a woman I can't put myself in their shoes nor can I read about the countless stories of women who were forced into, or had no other choice other than to work in, prostitution? And let me guess, you're a woman so you can speak freely about your anecdotal evidence? lol

OK

No woman in their right mind enjoys being a prostitute and if given the opportunity would choose another line of work. And men who pay them are one step above, and sometimes right in line with, a rapist.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/sports/patriots-robert-kraft-charges.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

"Patriots owner Robert K. Kraft’s arraignment on charges of soliciting prostitution has been moved a day later, to March 28, court papers said on Thursday, and will no longer overlap with the N.F.L. annual meetings.

Despite an all-capital warning on the document saying, “The defendant must be present at this hearing,” a spokeswoman for the Palm Beach County clerk’s office clarified that Mr. Kraft could still be represented at the hearing by his lawyers.

Lawyers with experience representing clients in these kinds of cases in Palm Beach County, Fla., said that the “Notice of Hearing” document is considered a form letter and that lawyers represent most defendants at these hearings. Lawyers for Mr. Kraft did not immediately return calls seeking comment, but said in a statement to The Boston Globe that he would not appear at the hearing.

The arraignment was originally scheduled for March 27, the final day of the league meetings in Phoenix. The hearing will be at a satellite court in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., not the main courthouse in downtown West Palm Beach.

Mr. Kraft faces two first-degree misdemeanor charges, which include a penalty of up to one year in jail. He has pleaded not guilty and denies any criminal activity. The police say they have video of Mr. Kraft engaging in sex acts for money in two visits to a strip-mall massage parlor in Jupiter, Fla."

"Though the case is a minor one by legal standards, Mr. Kraft has spared no expense, bringing in sought-after lawyers, including William A. Burck, who worked in the George W. Bush White House, and Jack Goldberger, who defended Jeffrey E. Epstein, the New York financier accused of trafficking underage girls for sex.

A vigorous defense is unusual for a case of this kind. Most defendants take a plea deal, pay a fine and complete community service. They can later petition the court to expunge their record.

Legals experts say that bringing in high-powered lawyers, especially ones from out of state, is unnecessary in misdemeanor cases like the one that Mr. Kraft is fighting. It is often more effective, they say, to hire lawyers who are familiar with state court judges and state attorneys, who are elected in Florida.

“The problem with Kraft is the problem with famous people, which is they think if you bring in famous attorneys, they’ll do a better job,” said Hugh Culverhouse Jr., the son of the former owner of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and a former prosecutor now in private practice. “In Florida, you don’t walk into state court with an out-of-town attorney. Who are you trying to impress?”

Last week, Dave Aronberg, the state attorney overseeing the cases in Palm Beach County, said that all defendants would be treated equally, regardless of their wealth or fame.

“Our office treats everyone the same, whether you have a lot of money or are indigent,” Mr. Aronberg said last week. “No one gets special treatment in Palm Beach County.”

Mr. Aronberg, a former assistant attorney general and a Florida state senator, is a Democrat who ran unopposed when he was re-elected in 2016."

"danmarino wrote:

So because I'm not a woman I can't put myself in their shoes nor can I read about the countless stories of women who were forced into, or had no other choice other than to work in, prostitution? And let me guess, you're a woman so you can speak freely about your anecdotal evidence? lol

OK

No woman in their right mind enjoys being a prostitute and if given the opportunity would choose another line of work. And men who pay them are one step above, and sometimes right in line with, a rapist.

I'm not a woman. I'm also not the one saying that all women must think like I do or they're not in their right mind.
The bottom line is you're deciding what other people should think and anybody who doesn't think like you do has something wrong with them.

And I'm saying that in a place where prostitution is legal and regulated you have fewer people who are forced into it. I simply believe that people should be free to make their own choices and consenting adults can decide to do whatever they want together (within the obvious constraints of crimes like murder, etc,.) regardless of whether or not it's something you believe people should enjoy.

"rafael wrote:

I'm not a woman. I'm also not the one saying that all women must think like I do or they're not in their right mind.
The bottom line is you're deciding what other people should think and anybody who doesn't think like you do has something wrong with them.

And I'm saying that in a place where prostitution is legal and regulated you have fewer people who are forced into it. I simply believe that people should be free to make their own choices and consenting adults can decide to do whatever they want together (within the obvious constraints of crimes like murder, etc,.) regardless of whether or not it's something you believe people should enjoy.

I'm not sure if you're throwing out red herrings or building a straw man.

What makes you think that I'm speaking for all women and what makes you think I'm giving an opinion? What I'm writing isn't my opinion. A little research, instead of anecdotal experiences, will go a long way. And like I wrote earlier, there are exceptions to every rule. Like how some guys like to get kicked in the nuts for fun. Some people think heroin is AWESOME and will tell you that they love it and are happy to be addicted to it. And just like those people are mentally messed up, so are those women who "enjoy" selling their bodies.