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Pat White

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Whitedolphin54, Aug 14, 2010.

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  1. Whitedolphin54

    Whitedolphin54 From the land of legends Luxury Box

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    Can Pat White buy his way back onto the roster tonight if he has a good game, or is he purely being showcased for a trade? I just wondered if the FO actually seen something from him today that they thought they were originally getting, they might reconsider his place on the team. I know in realistic terms that he is still part of this team, but I just get the feeling from things you hear that he will be gone come the start of the season.
     
  2. frozenfin

    frozenfin Well-Known Member

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    Thigpen has to show he can be reliable as well... Thiggy has good skills and is a playmaker, but he can also make mistakes. Reports are saying Thigpen is not having a good camp so far, so I'm not counting Pat White out yet.

    Both of them have to step up and compete, make good throws down the field.
     
  3. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    My feeling is there are only 3 scenarios in which Pat White makes the team:

    1. A significant injury to Henne, Thigpen or Pennington. (Possible, but hopefully not.)
    2. Another team offers a deal we can refuse for either Thigpen or Pennington. (Not very likely.)
    3. Pennington's shoulder doesn't feel right during the preseason and he decided to retire. (Very doubtful.)
     
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  4. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Sorry but you don't draft a player in the second round and then get rid of him when he shows why you drafted him there, unless you get a first and we won't.
     
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  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Thank you.

    Added: It wasn't a secret that Pat was a project coming out..... certainly not by the FO either. They knew what they were getting their hands onto and that Pat would take time. If they didn't want to invest the time, they wouldn't have made the pick.
     
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  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Has the FO directly told you that his current place on this team is in jeopardy and in need of reconsideration?.... or are you presuming how they feel based on your own interpretation? I don't know, which is why I'm asking.
     
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  7. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Maybe, and maybe they simply whiffed on this kid and his game, that was tremendous in the college ranks, just doesn't translate to the NFL...or maybe his heart isn't in it or whatever. Any way you look at it, as of this instance, his being picked at #44 conjures up the word bust....

    That said, I hope he proves us all wrong, starting tonight.
     
  8. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I think Pat White's spot on this team is going to come down to a few things:

    1. Chad Pennington's health. Chad has looked pretty go so far, and if he shows he can be at or near 100% then the coaching staff may feel a bit more secure allowing White more time to develop knowing they have full confidence in their backup. That of course would be dependent on;
    2. Pat White's development. These games provide Pat one last shot to show the coaching staff there's something there that can be developed, or that he can be of use in more exotic packages or another position. He's shown some improvement in camp, but he's got a long way to go, which could open the door for;
    3. Thigpen. The Dolphins staff like him a lot, but he hasn't had a great camp so far. But if he plays well, I don't see how White stays on the football team unless some other NFL team comes a knocking with a very good offer for Thiggy and White shows he can at least play a basic QB.
     
  9. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    I guess you don't remember John Beck do you ? By the way Beck is now on his third team the Washington Redskins.
     
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  10. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Conjures up the word bust ONLY b/c many here didn't like the pick to begin with. HOWEVER, the FO clearly liked the pick b/c THEY made it. Again, the kid is a project and it's never been a secret that he is such, so you can't accurately say that there's been any whiffing involved yet..... nor can you say his game doesn't translate to the NFL yet. There's a 3 year curve for a reason.

    So 7th round Thiggy automatically gets the nod b/c he has an extra year's experience under his belt? Are the White haters forgetting that Thiggy was cut by the Vikings his rookie season?...... or that his rookie stats were 2 of 6 with an INT? Yet Pat gets blasted for his rookie season?! Only Thiggy can improve but Pat (and his tremendous college talent) cant? I also seem to recall him throwing 2 INTs in 8 passes last season.
     
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  11. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    yeah.... and who drafted Beck? He certainly wasn't this regime's boy.
     
  12. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Just b/c someone was a 2nd round pick doesn't mean squat when a new staff takes over. The trifecta might not have liked Beck in the first place, so there would be ZERO reason to let him hang around if he wasn't a player they believed in. However, they believed in Pat which is why they drafted him highly. :wink2:
     
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  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I love the irrational, non-commonsensical beliefs that some members have about us drafting Pat--- that we secretly drafted him to let him fail as a QB so we could move him to where he "supposedly" belongs- to WR.

    Guess what? If we wanted a WR at #44 then we would've taken a WR!!!! It's not like there weren't plenty available with a shorter length to impact. This regime (Parcells particularly) was enamored with Pat as a QB prospect, enough so to draft him 44th. You do not give up on your 2nd round QB prospect after his rookie season. The fact that he was brought into games should speak volumes of their confidence in him.
     
  14. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Beck was given every chance to succeed and never showed potential. The question was if Pat showed potential in preseason. Don't see how Beck applies at all.
     
  15. Whitedolphin54

    Whitedolphin54 From the land of legends Luxury Box

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    Firstly, if you think I hate on Pat White then you are very much mistaken. I would love for him to be a good player here.

    I was merely asking the question whether you guys thought he would be showcased if he did well in preseason. I have no idea what the FO think, that's why I am asking the question :yes:
     
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  16. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Of course. It's not like Thigpen has been so good that he's untouchable. Thigpen's reputation has been of a talented but inconsistent guy. The reality is that most inconsistent guys stay that way unless they put in a lot of hard work. In the past, Thigpen's work ethic has been questioned. I don't know how hard he's working now. As it stands I don't think Thigpen is more than a back-up. I think he has the talent to be a bottom half starter.

    White is a extremely raw QB with some passing skill. IMO his ceiling is lower than Thigpen's. I don't think White can be a starter. I do think he can be a back up. But White's a guy with a superior work ethic. I think that White could easily be as good as and more consistent than Thigpen has been up until now.

    The impression I get from the camp reports (I haven't watched practice myself) is that White has been a little better than Thigpen since the second week of camp. If White were to outperform Thigpen in the games, I have no doubt that he could take Thigpen's spot. I also wouldn't be all that surprised if the Dolphins kept four QBs.
     
  17. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Added: If <hypothetically> the last roster spot came down to either White (and carrying 4 QBs) or a late round/FA rookie <or 2nd year player>, then I do NOT see us opting for a player who has yet to see an NFL snap AND didn't show enough potential in college to be worthy of a higher pick. If someone falls to injury, we can continue to snag vets in a pinch who are less of a liability.
     
  18. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Just another QB that coaches have ruined by changing his throwing style and getting him out of his comfort zone (gloves).

    "No it's nothing that I haven't seen before, but it still kills me like it did before."-Beck
     
  19. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Correction. Pat White is an athlete that has no passing skills or passing insticnts whatsoever. As long as he stays at the quarterback position, he will be a complete failure.
     
  20. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I get a kick out of the idea that Pat can develop into a quarterback. Like he is suddenly going to develop the brain to play the position.
     
  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    That could very well prove to be fine and dandy...... but it still has to be proven, and I would be shocked if they gave up on THEIR boy this quickly.

    I despised this pick when it was made, but I will not for a second think that I can assess the potential of a raw player better than one of the leagues best organizations (that would be us).
     
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  22. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I get a kick out of the idea that Starbucks only charges me 43 cents a refill using my own cup..... but that's just my opinion.
     
  23. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    When Sparano said the other day that there would be a tough decision at quarterback on the final cutdown date was that him trying to get Pat going or was he actually being honest (will they definitely only roster three qb's?). I think it's a little of both and I don't think they've made their mind up that they want to showcase him for trade or else Sparano wouldn't have said what he said. Now, if he looks shaky tonight or the next game, and he all of a sudden gives him a vote of confidence, publically, we all know what's next.
     
  24. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    For all the love thigpen gets around here, I feel Thigpen has been the somewhat more disappointing. It really seems to me that he isnt improving year to year to year. He seems like the same exact QB he was in Kansas City, a guy who can move the team with his mobility and arm but one who will invariably lose accuracy for long stretches and throw an inordinate amount of interceptions. I agree he has more raw potential than White as a QB but at some point he really needs to show improvement. White on the other hand had a John Beck type of season as a passer (not runner). I think if he can show that he can throw the ball this preseason then he's a lock to stick and we will try to take that wildcat/pitstol to the next level and have our Michael Vick/ Kordell Stewart type of QB. Pat White still has a ways to go to match Thigpen in current effectiveness but it seems like Thigpen is stuck in sand and if Pat can improve year to year he would have the advantage of being an improving player as oppesed to a QB who seems stcuk in neutral like Thigpen appears to be
     
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  25. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Freak
     
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  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The thing of that is, I cannot honestly compare him to John Beck because he just did not have enough passing attempts and the situations where he threw the ball come into the game, throw 1 pass then leave, are just not a accurate way to judge Pat White the passer.

    He had 5 attempts in what..4 different games? 1 pass per game, that is just too small a sample to say one way or another as even the greatest passers in NFL history would not thrive in those conditions imho.
     
  27. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    true but pat white really showed he wasnt ready to throw last year. he needs to improve this year and throw like he did in college. we cant have another season of a one dimensional pat white. show you can throw, even if its just a complegtion here and there and stay. show you're still nothing but a runner then maybe we end the experiment
     
  28. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    It's like a merry-go-round from hell.......:favre::favre::favre:
     
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  29. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    with everything Ive heard I doubt he can...I don't think hes even capable of it anymore..my confidence from last year to now in his ability is totally shot.
     
  30. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's is clearly your opinion and not one that is universally accepted. Many long time QB gurus rated White among the best passers at the combine. I would guess that the Dolphin coaching staff is among those who rated him thusly. IMO he has greater limitations as an athlete. I don't think he's a special athlete when compared to NFL talent. I think he lacks elite quicks and his size is sub par.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    IF he comes out today and the staff uses him out of the proset most of the time, I will have to admit, I will be lost as to why they are doing that, and not training the kid to do what he did in college..

    Now that will be a topic of good discussion...Why take a college QB that was excellent at being a wildcat pistol type player and completely teach him something different at the pro level.
     
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  32. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Who's the better option? The guy with more potential who hasn't improved or the guy who is improving but has less potential? I guess it would depend on where you rate those potentials.

    Now, Thigpen does has some excuses in that he may not have received much if any coaching until Lee, so we'll see.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Therein is the problem Adamp, a Qb like White comes with growing pains and a learning curve, Irish and Co should have known that, and accepted it, when they made him the #44 overall.

    I suspect they are going to put White into situations tonight where he can showcase what he does do well, lots of slant and seam routes, maybe some naked boot legs just to see if another team will bite and offer something for him.

    imho
     
  34. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it depends on whether you think he has the potential to be a starting QB. If you think he does then you do use him in a pro set and not just in the WC.

    I don't rate him as having that kind of potential and so I wouldn't have taken him in the second, but it's pretty clear that the F.O.'s evaluation was different. The have a decent track record draft wise and I'm not so close minded as to believe that a reasonable person could have a different opinion.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    well if that's the case Raf, than a lot of us would be disagreeing with the evaluation of the professionals..

    6 foot tall with questionable accuracy is not a good combination, my enthusiasm for the pick had NOTHING to do with him being a proset qb, nothing...How bad does that suck for me?, I never get to see the kid used the way I thought he should be used, and I called the pick.
     
  36. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm with you on this Deej. I would've at least liked to have seen a notion of balance involved (like half wildcat/pistol stuff and half pro set so that he can be a better asset now while easing into a long term backup role).

    Just spitballing here: Maybe we didn't see the "true" Patcat playbook open up last year b/c Sparano and Co didn't think he was completely ready for it but still wanted a glimpse of how defenses would play him so that we could effectively gameplan for it this offseason. ????
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For a time I kind of understood that they needed to teach him the proset to a degree so they can switch from wildcat/pistol into a proset formation mid play, execute than go back to wildcat/pistol...just so he knew the whole playbook ya know, but it doesn't seem to be the case, but we'll see....I can't believe for the life of me, that they see something so different than our vision for the player...Hell my vision was to have him and Ronnie brown on the field together at all times, I thought that was the goal...never happened last year.
     
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  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, he was over a 60% completition Qb at WVa, and he had what..46 starts?
     
  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Hopefully the method to their madness will unfold during preseason.... or during the 1st few regular games.

    My mind keeps getting drawn back to last season when Pat "appeared" to be congratulated for immediately throwing the ball away, as if he were told to do so. Something is too odd about that, especially considering how "restricted" he seemed when he was in. If you know that you might be wasting a play like that, then I think it would have to be for a reason. I can't think of any other explanation than to see how defenses would react to Pat w/o the opposition knowing exactly how we plan on utilizing him.
     
  40. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I saw Pat make some serious improvements at WVa AND make some throws that I wouldn't have thought possible (by him)....... so until I see his improvement halt, then I'm not ruling anything out provided the determined "man on a mission" doesn't fade from his psyche.
     

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