[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r07tmiDOMO0"]YouTube - Wes Lyons destroys ECU defender[/ame] This will be a staple for White as it is low risk and high return.
The arguement about him being a traditional qb is moot to me, when hes in the game, traditional offense will leave the game.. {unless obviously both chads get hurt} When he does take snaps with ronnie next to him, and if it is a pass,{who knows} his progressions will be short quick reads, lots of moving backfields, boots, roll outs, quick hitches, bubbles, and the all important, A qb that can tuck it and run like a running back, or scramble and throw on the run, keeping plays alive, so so dangerous, and it has nothing to do with him running a traditional offense. He will establish a new position in the NFL. 80/20 hybrid...completely controlled chaos.
Exactly, but White needs better Qb skills because he also has to run the traditional offense and things like the no huddle. Lots of low risk passes, two back backfields, shotgun formations etc. The only problem is, "when" do they run that offense with White as the Qb?
ive been talking about this 2 man game a lot..Its the 20 percent of the hybrid where Pat and ronnie are interchangable, yet still stay on the field for each other. When their not handling the ball, they become each others decoy, threatening the defense with their individual skills... I dont see the spread coming to miami, i see a more of a power wildcat, in more of the traditional sense {if there is such a thing}, with a two man game thats going on behind a traditional smashmouth offensive line philosophy.
That means that White will have to log some time in at Wr or Rb to make him a credible threat to the defense. I do, why limit our options to just the SmashCat when we spent the #44 on a player whose best role is WC Qb who can run the regular offense as well? Put White out on the field at the start of the half in a no huddle WC spread and watch the fireworks begin.
We might be getting a little confused on our theories.. When i say spread, i mean tom brady type offense {shotgun, picking apart}, which is an offense that i dont see maximizing Pats skills. His size, decision making, and accurancy, which are his weaknesses, would be exploited imo. I wanna see him run the wildcat like ronnie did, except with plays that have options built in to pass. Its just taking the wildcat from last year, and going to the next level {as in one step at a time}. Last year, for me, i didnt see gimmick football at all, on the majority of our WC plays, i saw intelligent power football with lots of motion [thats where i got smashcat}.. The next step for me, is incorporating Pat white into that same offense, utilizing his skills, threatning the defense's perimeters and keeping the defense honest in the deep part of the field, while Ronnie is trucking fools...Its the two man interchangable game, with versatile receivers that compliment the offense, and a traditional big strong oline, that has me hyped..i see it brother, as clear as day.. The first time Pat scrambles and buys time hitting ginn deep, is when the Smashcat will take affect, and become a legitimatly dangerous scheme. The offense has so much depth , just from the 2.0 version, that its getting hard for me to conceptualize it, and articulate it.lol Oh..and of course Pat will be lining up at receiver and running back on certain plays, the x factor part is so important, Remember, Ronnies carries in this offense will become so much more lethal if pat is on the field, and just because hes lined up at receiver or running back, does'nt necessarily mean that he wont be throwing the football on that play. Ronnie behind center in the wildcat, Pat lined iup at receiver, pat comes in motion at full speed, ronnie takes the snap and meets Pat simultaneously at the axis point of the exchange, i'll leave the rest up to dan henning and david lee and your imagination... If the defense decides to blitz the interior, their leaving themselves exposed on the perimeter with the run and pass while our bookend tackles protect. If they sit back and read, we pound them with motion and smashcat..
There was a pass? All I saw was a guy get his snot knocked lose! Great great hit. Thats what football is all about. God i miss playing special teams
Keep that up and you will be an "unperson" Mister... As for the Smashcat, White's real talent is rolling to the wide side of the field and forcing the Defense to decide to play pass or to come up and play the run, actually he can roll to either side of the field and force the coverage to decide "pass or run"? and White's job is to make the proper read and pass or run. It's a simple read really, but White has to be able to run well enough that the Defense is in a quandry, when he rolls out a Lb or Safety will spy him and White has to show he can win that matchup while running the ball consistently. Fun Stuff, if he lines up in a shotgun set the bubble screen will be a go to play for him.
I hope to see Pat on the field, but it's possible they'll bring him along slowly. It's also possible it will take him much longer to get up to NFL level than people think. There's also the matter of getting Henne some work too. Other stuff: - if Pat gets out to the open side, I hope Ray Lewis isn;t the LB who comes up to hit him. He'll crumple Pat like a Mack Truck parking on top of a Msart Car. - It would be really great if White were at all useful as a blocker. He could 'lead' Ronnie. At Pats size, I'd have to think that's impossible.
WildCat can go left or right (unbalanced) or transform into a Spread lot of potential for White & his abilities to run this system look to see a lot of Pat White & many new options in the offense TB-White/Brown FB-Brown/Williams BB-Polite/Cobbs/Fasano (block/receiver) WB-Williams/Cobbs/GinnJr/White (reverse/pass, receiver) now this presents some serious options/combinations in the backfield a quadruple threat! 1) you can shift into or out of these systems @ the line of scrimmage 2) with the talent we have to run & pass, the options are nearly limitless 3) the running game is wide-open & set to strike with the direct snap all these things play to our strengths on offense. I see the WildCat/Spread becoming the "other offense" not a gimmick play in 2009. Pat White will play a major role this season, and I like what I see.
Wouldn't surprise me at all to see us run the spread up to 50% of the time. I also don't think we will see Ronnie taking snaps out of the WC. When he does, it basically invites a 9th man into the box. In order for the WC to be successful going forward, the player taking snaps must be able to throw the ball. If not, you are negating the advantage the formation creates.
And there is the genius of taking Pat White at #44, "if" he proves he can throw effectively as well as run adequately, Ronnie can take direct snaps, they just have to put P White in motion from Right to Left prior to the snap. The defense will have to see if White has the ball and is rolling to the wide side of the field, that hesitation on the part of the Defense would give Ronnie a huge advantage on a running play.
I disagree with you about Ronnie not taking snaps, i think that Pat standing next to Ronnie when taking the snap, diffuses that notion, and brings the threats and advantage back into the equation. We ran the wildcat for 10 percent of our offense last year, imo, with ronnie and now pat lining up in the wildcat together, i think you will see that percentage go up {maybe about 20}, yet ronnie will still see his touches, Its a two man game now, each one will be doing something important with their own talents threatening the defense, so that the other, and the play, is effective.
I agree that we'll see them in the backfield together. I don't think it makes sense to hand-off the ball to the player that can throw however. Both will still be able to tear it up
I don't understand the logic in having White take the handoff though. You can still achieve all those threats you mentioned, but I'm not following why the QB would take the hand-off from the RB.
Because White would be heading to the wide side of the field at a full run, the defense will have to follow him or he turns the corner and heads up field, or White sets his feet and passes to any area on the field, the Defense is in no man's land, come up to defend the run and White throws the ball, lay back, White heads up field at full steam. think of it as a sort of end around but the Wr can throw the ball at a NFL level not just lob the ball up or only head up field.
I guess I can see that type of play every once in a while, but I don't think it will be used regularly, for a few reasons. First, Ronnie Brown is not a dual threat. When he has the ball, the defense is not worried about defending a pass. The only way to gain the threat of a pass is by handing the ball off, which burns time. Now it only may be a second, but thats still enough time for the defense to diagnose. You also can't really use any quick passes, as the QB doesn't have the ball for a few seconds. Second, with Ronnie taking the snap, you are eliminating play action. Third, putting White in that situation is going to open him up to a lot of hits. QBs are awarded a certain level of protection, and thats valuable to a guy like White. Not to mention, that from the standpoint of reading a defense, its much harder to do when you are running across a formation, as opposed to taking a snap and reading the defense. In the play you mentioned, an all out blitz would be a very effective defense. By the time we gained the ability to pass, it would most likely be too late. I think a much better option would be having White take the snap, then have Ronnie come in motion. White at that point can either handoff to Ronnie, play action and run himself, or play action and pass.
you will see a lot of twists & wrinkles in 2009 we have the backfield to load up on these kinds of plays we have the personnel to run the system
Point 1: Ronnie hands the ball off each time during the wild cat. Point 1a: I do not really see the Wildcat as a quick pass type of an offense. It takes the defense commiting to something and time to set up blocking Point 2: With Ronnie taking the snaps you have what you have before. It is also kind of a reverse play action. Point 3: It is setting up Pat White to make a read. If the cornerback or safty does not go with the reciever he can throw it to him. This also makes the wide reciever more effective as a blocker and also can make the tight end take a linebacker out of the equation as well without having to block. From reading the defense it is really just two reads. Is the tight end open? Is the wide reciever open? If not run the ball. An all out blitz wasn't effective against the normal wildcat when everyone made their blocks, why would this one be more effective?
agreed. the single wing (WildCat) is (four down type) running system based on the improvisational run/pass whole lot of go with the flow & pick apart the defense, once the ball is snapped however there are a number of passing plays that can be & must be instituted to keep the defense honest you can split out an end in an unbalanced line and he is an eligible receiver. Actually, the last man and only the last man on either side of the offensive line is the eligible receiver. If you need two or more receivers on one side of the line, the remaining receivers must be in the backfield. (the 4 players in the backfield are all eligible to receive, coming out of the backfield). you can shift unbanced right to left or even go into a spread @ the line of scrimmage lot of possibilities, if the personnel is there to run the system.
Or motions that he will hand off to the end around player that action forces the Defense to make a read on the play, one or two steps forwards or backwards into coverage. It could, if White is the Qb, then he can make a quick read and throw on a mismatch, that is "why" P Turner or J Haynos could be stars in this mini offense, put a 5'9 Db on people 6'3+ and there is a mismatch naturally. Yep, only with White, the defense must respect a pass, that is why you put him in motion across the backside of the formation, until the D has a read on White, Ronnie is free to try and make a play. that was the weakness in the WC last season, the D only had to see one key and make a read based on it. Which is a dirt simple, High School Qb read for White, he may not be Drew Brees but "safety up, safety back, Cb up, Cb back" is not rocket science. From reading the defense it is really just two reads. Is the tight end open? Is the wide reciever open? If not run the ball.[/QUOTE] There is also the running back and the WC Qb has to quickly find the safety, and any Dlineman who may have dropped back into zone coverages which is the smart way to defend a pass from the WC. However "if" White does have breakaway ability, when a DE drops back into coverage, if White heads up field in the area they just vacated we could see long runs up the gut as the contest is Quick Qb v DE dropping back as the Safety will be in deep coverage in the middle of the field, White beats the DE it's one on one v a Safety in the open field. Depends, "if" the blitzer can head upfield and disrupt White's open view of the field then it will work, chances are great White wins a one on one in that situation however then planting his feet and throwing becomes an issue. And that is why bubble screens and quick slants are important in the WC offense, when White makes those work the blitzer cannot pin their ears back and speed rush, they have coverage responsibilities.
I'm sorry, but I've never heard of a formation where the RB takes the snap and hands off to the QB. Just a little foreign to me... But we will see in due time
I haven't heard of a formation where the QB is lined up in the wide reciever spot and the RB takes the snap and hands it off to a RB in motion, who then flips the ball to the QB, who throws it to a third RB, until last year.
some quick pitches to Pat from ronnie, let him get out left or right, set up the offense accordingly and let him throw some easy crossing routes or hitches to some underneath receivers, or let him get the pitch, roll out left or right, protect accordingly and let him lauch it deep, if it aint there, let him scramble or tuck it in run. Do all this just so the defense has to respect Pat actually getting the ball, and passing from that formation {ronnie direct snap formation}, so ronnie can then fake that pitch later, and have the defense react to pat while ronnie runs the ball. Ronnie was highly effective in the wildcat, without someone in the backfield that the defense respected, Pat being back there will only help the offense get 8 out of the box...Thats a huge part for me, having Henning and david lee devise the plays to get that defense to respect what pat can do, so ronnie can have the space to run fools over. I'am not sure about this, but somethin tells me that part of this wildcat offense needs to be designed from scratch.
in the single wing, the direct snap can go to anyone in the backfield. they normally use four in the backfield: TB, FB, BB, WB, any one can be the "QB" if you designate the QB to be the one to receive the snap. Usually, the TB calls the signals. All are eligible to take the snap, run, receive or pass the ball. possible backfield breakdown for the WildCat: TB-White/Brown FB- Brown/White/Williams BB- Polite/Cobbs/Fasano WB-Williams/GinnJr/White Ultimately, no one really knows what they will look like on any given play. That's part of the charm.
I just don't understand why you would have Ronnie pitching the ball to White. I would figure you would have the player that can throw pitching it to the player that can run more effectively. I think its going to look a lot like Urban Meyer's offense. White playing the role of Tebow, and Ronnie playing the role of Harvin. Or the spread option like WVU, with Brown playing the role of Slaton.
A fair question, consider a pitch from Ronnie to White while in motion allows White to hit the corner of the defense at a full sprint, that pressures the Defense into deciding quickly on either coming up to force a running play, or playing back and defending the pass play, White with his 4.5 speed (IMO he is quick rather than fast) means a wrong defensive decision becomes a long run or a long completion. White from the shotgun in WC type motion offense does not have the speed built up that causes mistakes by the Defense.
I totally see what your saying. Its gonna be difficult, but i think its imperative that when ronnie is in the formation where he gets the ball snapped to him, that somehow, that ball gets into the hands of white, otherwise, how does the passing threat come into play when ronnie gets the snap. you want the defense to think about pass when ronnie is getting the snap and the only way to do that is to devise plays accordingly.
Imo, you try to do this because you know how good ronnie is at running the wildcat from a power running formation, your just trying to get more space and lanes for which he can make those great split second decisions and pound the rock. I would also like to point out stringer, that what iam talking about is infrequent, its just to make the defense respect it while the original formation takes place.
