Over-Training

Shoot dude, if you're over-training then I have to wonder what Im doing? I generally do 12-15 sets per muscle group (basically 4-5 sets of 3) and just go til failure on each of those sets.

From what I have experienced over-training only really happens if you dont give those muscle groups proper recovery time; i.e. about 48 hours before you work on them again. I have done as many as 24 sets for a muscle group and once your body acclimates to that kind of work out it recovers just fine. You just wake up sore as heck the next day.

So to answer your question I would say it doesn't sound like you're overdoing it but everyone's body reacts differently to the way they train.

 

If you are messing yourself up, ill be the guy right next to ya in the physical therapy rehab clinic.

See ya there bro

 

I'd say that whether you're overtraining with that routine or not depends on what percentage of your max you're doing with those sets.

 

Max OT says you should do 6-9 heavy sets per muscle group, so according to this one guide you're fine.

 

in a word: yes.

 

In more than a word, you could get better bang for your buck by reducing your # of exercises/ body part to 1 and no more than 12 exercises AT THE MOST in a given workout. Otherwise, you aren't getting anywhere NEAR the level of recovery and growth you could be getting.

A good rule of thumb is, "If your asking if you're overtraining, then you probably are." Another thing to think about: Instead of asking, "What is the most I can get do to get results?" ask yourself this. "What is the least amount necessary to stimulate maximum returns?" Then you're getting somewhere.

 

With the amount of work that you're doing per muscle group, if you're going to break it up that way then I would suggest at least 72 hrs. rest in between workouts, as the level of cumulative strain that you are putting on your recovery systems is quite large. Really, what's the worst that could happen? Do you think that you are going to lose that much muscle mass in 24hrs? Conversely, don't you think it's worth it to see how much you could potentially gain if you added another day of rest and recovery? Not to mention the time saved that you could use doing something else...

 

you shouldnt need to do more than 3-5 work sets to failure per body part. everything else should be warm-ups to prevent injury, and get your balance ready. you can do 100 sets per body part, and not over train. it depends on the intensity and finish of the move.

and if mass is your goal, you need bigger compound movements. shrugs are great, but military or dumbell presses too. deadlifts for back. etc. and these are the types of exercises you cant really circuit train. i've never been big on circuit training.

but to each their own, especailly if you are pleased with the results. if you go into a chest day, with a sore chest, thats not good.

 

So what would you say is wrong with me if i regularly do 12-15 exercises per body part and if i do less then that it feels like i did nothing at all?

 

perhaps you need to define your sets. all 12-15 cant be "work" sets. they all cant be the same intensity, otherwise you are not working hard enough.
1 light warm up, a moderate warm up, then your "heavy" set. that IS 3 sets, but only 1 of them really counts.


conversely, i know little about cardio, but at my age, need to get more into it. is doing 30-45 mins a day 5 times a week too much? whats the ideal? i dont want to over train there either, and start hurting muscle gains or doing damage. whats the time they say is optimum for that healthy cardio effect? i thought it was 40 minutes.

 

I would say nothing is wrong with you- it's your workout. If you are doing 12-15 exercises per body part, with multiple sets per exercise, then, depending on each sets intensity, you are probably overtraining. Also, by the way your body works, each set of the exercise is either decreasing in intensity every time or the intensity isn't very high to begin with, and you need that many sets to make any sort of an impact/inroad into your muscular reserve.

Humans have adapted an amazing immediate response to physical stress and danger known as the 'fight or flight' response. When a person exercises, the goal is (should be) to tax the body's muscles so much that they are unable to execute this response properly immediately after said exercise. This evokes a physiological change in the musculature, so that when you encounter the same physical stress in the future, the body is able to respond. The body can't tell the difference b/w a barbell and a bear, hence the inclination to adapt and survive. What it also doesn't know is that you are constantly upping the intensity of the physical stress, forcing the body to constantly adapt.

If you are doing this with your workout, then you should still be seeing adaptation and gains every time you exercise. "Overtraining" means exactly one thing- breaking the body down and not allowing enough time to recover and compensate (adapt). You are well within things to do 12-15 exercises/ body part, provided you space your workouts far enough apart. However, the McMasters study (as well as other peer reviewed medical studies) showed that doing that much exercises/ body part is no more beneficial to causing a greater adaptive response than two or even one exercise/ body part done to total and complete failure. (Given the same amount of rest in b/w workouts, etc.)

So, while you may not be necessarily overtraining (depending on the amt of rest in between workouts), you aren't making the most efficient use of your time in/outside the gym. Like I said- nothing wrong w/ you, your workout just isn't as efficient as it could be.

 

You mean, you know little about aerobic activity and it's effect on the body. Any exercise (defined as activity above the resting norm) stimulates the cardiovascular system. I would start by reading this:
http://forums.thephins.com/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=17

and then we'll go from there with you're questions. If you're into science and specifics, I would recommend getting the book Body by Science. You can find it at BAM or Borders (in another week or so-it's on order), or just get it from Amazon for about 6-8 bucks cheaper.

 

tried that and i felt like i was actually losing muscle mass.

As far as cardio I run 2-3 miles 2x a week (all out sprint) and go 5-7 miles (sprint and jog) 2x a week. that seems to be working well for me so I might recommend varying intensity of your runs. And please, dont jog. 1 minute intense, next one slower. Vary the speeds, force your body to adjust. You get tired faster but you burn more calories. Do it after your weight training is over and dont adjust your weight training simply to conserve energy for your run. Just rip through stuff the way you normally would.

 

yeah i've always loved the weights, and over the years built dense muscle that can take a good pounding. the cardio is a weakness though. it'll be strickly for my heart, endurance and wind, and over all internal well being. i have no desire to run marathons or triathalons. i am planning to mix the jogging with elliptical and bicycling tho...to keep me hopefully interested. the treadmill will be very plain. half hour at a respectable pace...hopefully.

i just dont want my cardio training to hurt the results of would be weight training.

JCow, i read your page, and one thing i dont want, is to substitute cardio for weight training. i have two completely different intentions there. like i said, cardio for endurance and internal well being. weights for strength and muscularity. i didnt plan on having cardio effect my muscularity in any sort of proactive way.

 

In order for the cardio to have an effect on your heart you have to challenge your body. To challenge your body you cant let it adjust to just one thing. Its no different from weight training in that if you let your body adjust you dont get the desired effect. I wasnt talking about running triathalons though Ive done that, I was talking about just forcing you to challenge yourself. Try forcing yourself to run full speed when your winded and then jog for a minute.

Also, if your lucky you can find a gym with a basketball hoop. Basketball (or raquetball) is probably more important then just a straight jog because it challenges your body to change speeds, stay agile, jump, move, defend etc. And you can actually not be bored out of your brain while you do it.

 

Any opinion on my routine guys?

Chest, Tris, Shoulders, Biceps, Back, and Legs (legs being the one I need a little more work on to catch up) all twice a week.

Each time I'll average about 10 sets with about seven to ten heavy sets so it looks like:

1- Chest, Legs
2- Shoulder, Tris
3- Bicep, Back
4- Chest alternate routine, maybe forearms and a little legs
5- Shoulder, Tris
6- Bicep, Back
7- Break

Basketball gets tossed in maybe two days a week to give me some cardio. I also walk a heck of a lot more than the average guy due to my ridiculously hilly campus. I used to do more somewhere around 12-14 sets but I toned it down and tuned up the nutrition a little.

 

If im not trying to bulk up at all and just trying to tone..is there such a thing as over training? i mean, more reps to cut and more weight to bulk is the general rule right?

 

If your goal is to "cut" then you need to lower the weight and increse the number of rep's. So yes.

A clean diet is the ket to having that cut look.

As far as overtraining Im not sure what your routine is like so it is hard to say. But yes it is possible to overtrain even with lite weight, although it is very hard to do. I mean dont try and do anything more than 5 sets of high reps on the small muscle groups (biceps).

GL and remember clean diet is the #1 key.

 

Seth, don't think that cardio and weight training are two different things- they aren't. Good, intense, weight-bearing exercise is some of the best "cardio" you can possibly do, if not the best.

What most people don't realize is that like Boik said, you have to place demand on your heart and cardiovascular system beyond the norm. The only way to do that is through muscular activity. Therefore, the more of a muscle is used, and the more muscles overall used, the larger the demand on the cardiovascular system, the better the 'cardio' benefit.

So, if what you're doing is intense enough, you could actually cut out all steady-state activity (jogging, rowing, elliptical, etc.) and be in better shape cardiovascularly then if you were doing them(due to longer periods for rest and recovery). Personally, I wouldn't recommend doing any kind of exercise, cardio or otherwise, more than 4x a week. I don't think that, for the average person, any more allows for enough recovery time.

 

Yes, there is such a thing as overtraining, and I would say that most people are guilty of it. Then again, I define 'overtraining' as, "Anything more than what is required for maximal stimulation resulting in muscular growth." Since science has still yet to discover what that threshold is, there is a bit of a grey area around this issue. I look at it this way- as long as I am progressing every workout, then I am not overtraining. If I am not, then I need to cut back on either the length of my workout, or increase the length of my recovery/growth time. Does that make sense?

If you are just trying to cut and tone, don't believe the gym rat's tale of 'more reps to cut and more weight to bulk'. First, your genetics have a lot to do with how big you can get; and second, if the load on the muscle(s) isn't great enough, you'd be just as well off doing a Dorito curl as you would a barbell curl. That is, the effect would be about the same-next to nothing.

What most people don't realize is that all one needs to do to 'tone' is shape up the diet and exercise in a high-intensity fashion 2x-3x week- just simply stop progessively increasing the load when you hit the desired look you are aiming for. You can even decrease the number of times you exercise down to 1x a week or even every two weeks if you want. As long as you continue to place the same demand on your muscles, they will continue to stay the same size/strength. Also, the more muscle tissue one has, the easier it is to lose fatty tissue, as the total caloric upkeep of the body is larger (muscle is more expensive calorie-wise than fat is).