I understand it's not a pleasant topic, but it has happened 5 times since the 1800's and once so severe 1859, that had it been today, we wouldn't be talking about it because the computers we are typing on wouldn't exist Certainly, you not laughing at the possible death of 3/4 of all American's. Death's that could be prevented by some simple measures that cnc66 has shown exist. What really is funny is they could be implemented for a mere 150 million.
If I may be so bold I think you can see just by reading this thread just what will happen in this country (or the world for that matter). There are those who will be prepared, those who say to themselves "I can't do anything about this, so why worry", those who say "The government has the answers and this won't be a problem", and those like you who see a problem and set out to solve it, if not for everyone, at least for yourself. In my youth there were those of us called survivalist (some called us crazies) that prepared for a worst case Nuke attack. There were civil defense drills and such then at some point, can't recall exactly when, our government pulled away from the idea of saving everyone and started thinking only of saving itself. Civil defense was/is scraped. Those of us who believe that we, as individuals, are responsible for ourselves have plans and know/learn ways to offset these problems to at the very least give us a chance to survive. When you come right down to it you and only you will deside if you survive or not. By the way Marty good post. I can't wait to answer all the incoming, I hear it now!
That's essentially my point. You can spend time "preparing" for some catastrophic event who's odds of ever actually being realized are so slight, but one has to wonder if it's worth it to begin with.
Thing is nobody is getting all worked up about it, nobody is panicking, we all will go about our lives and more then likely not think too much more about it when we click away from this page. We are having a good informative talk about what is likely to happen in our life time or our kids or our grand kids. So what was your point to make it seem like such? Besides it is a message board, what else are we suppose to do other then take about the topic at hand?
Its happened 5 times since 1859's big one. The one in 2001 was even bigger then 1859 and would have done significant damage if it was pointed at Earth
What is unclear about that post? I'm not telling anyone to not discuss the topic, nor am I saying anyone posting here is "panicking" (though to pretend that plenty of people dont lose sleep over such doomsday scenarios is foolish). I'm saying there are tons of end of world type scenarios, if/when they occur I'm not sure you can really be prepared for them. They are interesting, especially the science of them (now that you eliminated the fear coming from a missile essentially), but the initial post made it seem like this was something we should fear. My contention is that fear would be a waste of time. That's all lol.
I got ya.....that's fair.....We should be aware of the possibility that this could happen--------on a missile......yes, most likely from a huge solar flare. I know we can't prepare for every doomsday disaster, but , we can be better prepared should it happen by discussing it and what we can do to survive and help one another. Certainly food and water would be a first and foremost consideration. Just curious how prepared are you. I know I am not prepared at all........don't even own a gun, have no types of vegtables I could grow, no spare water, etc. Makes me want to prepare a little better.....my families lives depend on it!!!!
Thats my thought. My question for the ones who think that the Government (federal,state and local) would be able to provide fast effective assistance if/when one like the one in '01 would hit. If the power grids and communications are knocked out, how are we (I say we because I am a member of the fire service) to know where to go, what to bring and how are we going to get there. Living here on the east coast we are told durning hurricane season to keep a weeks worth of water food etc... on hand, so I would think it would also be prudent to have such supplies year round for any kind of outage either from mother nature or the heavens.
If such a scenario did occur it'd be foolish to hope that you could rely on the government for assistance, I agree. It'd take them who knows how long to get even a make shift relief effort in place, and even then most would get little to no help, imo.
Learning about things is always "worth it" Don, don't you think? Being prepared is also a great idea IMHO. The for what could be anything from losing ones job to the world, as we know it, coming to an end.
To me it does seem foolish to rely on the government. Seeing how FEMA handle Katrina and countless other natural disasters, that is a scary thought to rely on them. Being familiar with Delaware's DEMA and how it works I am not confident we would do much better on a state lvl. At the community lvl is where i am most confident stuff would happen and get done.
Here are some links that you might like to read. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/1988/CM2.htm http://www.endtimesreport.com/EMP_attack.html While both are long there is some very good info. I tend to agree with Marty in that I feel the Sun is our greatest enemy and the question isn't if but only when. Given that fact it seems prudent to be prepared. By the way Ducken I love your avatar.
Knowledge of hunting and gathering and such trades wouldnt do a whole lot if this scenario was to happen. There simply is not enough space left in America. We are so much more developed now a days that type of lifestyle would not be effective. There are too many people here to live without electricity. This is kind of scary.
get off the message board get out get active and do something about it! If you're that kind of person. I'm the kind of guy that thinks this way "Any way you slice it we're ****ed." If it's not 2012 it's going to be WW3.
Do you really believe that or are you just unwilling to learn something different even if your life depends on it. I'm not calling you out here; I really want to know your feelings? You say its kind of scary yet you dismiss a possible answer out of hand?
I dont claim to always be right, but i wouldnt say something i didnt believe. Im always willing to learn more, especially when concerned with life or death. Do you really believe you have the land and resources required to revert back to a hunting and gathering lifestyle that would provide for you and your family? Maybe you personally are in the minority and own acres of land, in which case yes you may be OK. Most however do not fit into this category. Whether you have the knowledge or not will not be the biggest concern. We have modernized and industrialized a great deal, there simply is not enough land and resources for everyone to simply just go back to that style.
what are you talking about?? I will be eating while you will be starving to death or excersing cannibalism.. my skills would have value to me, my family, and whatever group I align myself with to survive until the infrastructure comes back up. It would be effective enough to keep me and mine alive.. and to me, that pretty damned important.
Do you live on huge plots of land? If so you could be right. If not how are you going to plant food, keep animals etc.?
I live in Florida, plenty of fish and shellfish. The ocean, lagoon, lakes and rivers would provide. Lots of woods and swamps, plenty of critters, even if some are not exactly savory, they are nutritious. I am comfortable in the swamps, woods and everglades, places most would not be able or willing to exploit. If the Indians and my pioneer ancestors could manage, so could I. Wouldn't be easy.. at all. The competition for the available resources would be great. A garden would likely have to be defended and the ability to walk or sail to better resources might make a fixed location undesirable. Livestock would be the first casualties so they would become scarce quickly as the resource was tapped and feed ran out. Again, my skills would have value and I would be a desired asset to whatever group I aligned with until order replaced anarchy.
Jimi, Marty is right, and you don't need "huge" plots to grow food but what you do need "badly" is the knowhow. My backyard (small) is just alittle less than the plot of land that My grandparents used to grow enough to feed themselves and SEVEN children. My youngest and her husband have 65 acres, enough to feed an army, if they have the people to work it. There is alot you can learn if you want to, really its all up to you. I will leave you with one thought that a very wise man gave me when I was young. If you want to survive and suceed go where others won't and do the things they are unwilling to do.
I still disagree. Ok maybe you wouldnt need huge plots, but you need a lot more land then the majority of Americans own. Most people have no backyard at all or maybe a small patch of land. Even if you have enough to grow five or six different plants thats still not enough food to sustain a family for an extended period of time. You still need milk and meat for protein some bread and whatnot. Sure some people in certain situations would be set up alright. Most would be screwed if this huge disaster were talking about was to happen. Lakes would be overfished in no time, animals hunted to extinction etc. There is not room for a billion people to live off only the land in this country. It would be mayhem with those with no means to live going at any measure to survive. Chaos would destroy everything IMO.
Those woods would be overhunted and those lakes overfished in no time. You think people will sit around and starve to death because they are not comfortable with those environments? People will flock to the oceans and everglades, there is not room for 1 billion people to do this. I think your underestimating the competition...1 billion people...the indians never had that kind of number to compete with, and an ENORMOUSLY larger sample of land to work with. With our industrialization we eliminated a great deal of available resources. Sure knowledge of these practices will help for a while and puts you in a better place than others, but i wouldnt bank on it ensuring my survival thats all. Obviously no one knows for sure what would happen.
Bud what are you talking about??? Jimi that is when communities will come together and those that can hunt will hunt, those that can work a forged will do that, those that know how to plant will plant and the whole community will support each other. Now in the cities I am sure it will be a different story. But as Hank Jr. once sang "A country boy will survive". The week will be weeded out and the strong will survive.
I still think you guys are underestimating the impact it would have, but i guess theres no way to say one way or the other unless it happens. Obviously it wouldnt end mankind, there is still wildlife and resources im not saying we covered the world in concrete. Im just warning you dont think youll be just fine if this thing really happens just because you cant hunt, you never know. The worlds population is so large now and so much land (particularly America) has been destroyed and industrialized the number who would die would be great. Space and resources are not available. Mayhem would ensue.
may I ask where you get the one billion number? I think you may be exaggerating numbers to strengthen you point. I only have to deal with those around me. I don't live in LA or NYC, those folks would be in a crack, that is why I pointed out where I live. City folk blindly stomping through the woods and glades with their "9's" will not feed anyone, and the glades will kill those foolish enough to not respect them. I wouldn't bank on your survival either.. but I would mine. I'm skilled and willing. Guys like Ron and I would hook up all over the country, protecting each others families and feeding ourselves. It wouldn't be fun, anarchy would reign, but I'm confident my skills and determination would see me and mine through the days. I know how to hunt, kill, dress my kill and preserve it. I could and would harvest things the Indians ate. Snakes turtles frogs gators birds snails roots berries cabbage hearts fish clams oysters turtle eggs... Did you know that Ron (gafinfan)is a practitioner of the 1000 yard range.. that he can reach out and touch animals, and people if he had to, at a quarter mile or more? I'm not that good but I'm good enough not to starve to death. Ducken has it right Jimi.
I think you are underestimating how much land there is in the US and Canada. Also I think a 1/4 of the US population would be wiped out within a few weeks due to panic and rioting in the cities. The cities are where the vast majority of the US populations live. Then another large portion of elderly would also pass. between those two thing it would significantly thin the population down to where the land could start to think about supporting it. Never got around to finnishing my thought but the other guys pretty much covered what I was thinking
went and bought a 12 gauge yesterday......nice gun only paid 130 at the pawn shop!!!! Step 1 in being prepared
Good for you, I'm proud of you! The first step is always the hardest and if you need help hollar, I'm only an email or PM away. PS thanks Marty, if it hits the fan I'll see ya.
Jimi, WADR, you are wrong. The first to starve would be the ones who know nothing (or don't want to learn) the second to go will be the road hunters and sign shooters ( they play Rambo on their xbox's) while the rest of us will go into the same woods or same fishing holes that have already been feeding us. We would just be cooking outdoors rather than on those nice indoor stoves and not missing a beat. Would it be hotter in the summer and colder in the winter, of course, but then we would be losing that extra weight we always complain about now because it would mean our survival. Come on Jimi, join us, really its not half bad when you finally eat that first fish that you caught and cleaned by yourself. It taste better than store bought, really. And I've got a Venison Pate to kill for!
First of all where do you guys get off on keep acting like your far superior to me? "I would starve" "join us" etc. The first time i let it by assuming it wasnt directed at me, just in general.Im a young guy im sure you guys probably are much more experienced then me, but trust me i can fish, hunt etc. I never said i couldnt live in the wilderness, i said i dont think those skills ensure survival. You guys keep thinking you will for sure live if this happens, ill remain that there would be many consequences that would affect you beyond your control. I told you i never once said those skills would be useless. In fact i think i ended up on a tangent arguing with you all about something i agree on for the msot part. I said they dont ensure your survival, you can only control so much to begin with, this would drastically lower that. I whole-heartedly agree those skills give you a clear advantage over those who dont. I think we just differ on the amount we believe the outside chaos would cause everyone trouble.
I don't think anyone thinks they are above you, but I am sure a lot was based on your posts. I don't know where you live, but I know here in lower Delaware there would be some chaos at 1st that would be quickly but to bed either by reason or by force, but I have no doubt it would not last long around here. Then the communities would quickly come together and help support each other. How do I know this? 26 years in the fire service. Most of the community leaders are in the fire service and I know how quickly our departments come together in times of need. Will it be easy? Nope and I don't believe anyone said it would. The worst chaos and loss of life would occur in the urban areas. These are also the largest percent of population and once they get done killing each other and starving because they do not have the skills to live off the land. the population will be decreased to a point that the land will be able to sustain us. Something else you have to take into consideration is that the US would become very large again. You would not beable to get from Delaware to Ohio in 8 hours anymore. Travel would be limited to horse, bike and foot. It would take weeks for people travel large distances instead of hours. So if you live in some of the more remote areas chances are you will only see the people in your community.
Jimi, My post to you was not meant to downgrade you in anyway, if you took it that way I'm sorry. I only meant to invite you to learn something that I thought you might not know. Having said that I do feel you give to much credit to people who have no outdoor skills and to little to those who do. I have found that 95 % of the population are unwilling, for the most part, to step away from their comfort zone unless there are others willing to share their knowledge. This is true in both good and bad times and I think most will agree that we are headed for some bad times. Outdoor skills only inhance your chances JMHO. While those who have these skills are much more willing to try something new, goto and thru places that most won't, its in their mindset. Call it determination, will to live, never give up, all of those things that most people shrugg off; those peope will survive. They always have and this time will be no different. We love the dark.
That there is the most scary. Undetected, Poooooof, done deal and many perish. At least with ICBMs we'd have at least some chance of shooting them down. Of course the question with that remains that what happens at impact. is the missile rendered moot or does it just touch off a nuclear explosion elsewhere?
No worries at all guys, thanks for the input on the discussion. I probably did underestimate some of what you all were speaking on.
