1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

On Dawn Aponte: "She is the Dolphins, she runs the show"

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    37,188
    28,417
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Most GMs play second fiddle
     
  2. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

    14,523
    22,245
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Sunny Florida
    I don't see this as a problem. She's highly respected and experienced, and cap/contracts is her department. I doubt she's getting involved in player acquisition beyond that. By all accounts they're getting along (as Ross stipulated) so no problem here.

    It's hard for me to automatically assign demerits to her for simultaneously wanting to ascend (isn't that a positive?) and not wanting to work under Jeff Ireland - - who few people seemed to get along with, and tried to have her fired for it.

    Frankly, it's early and I trust her more than Hickey right now. Her history suggests she's a highly competent and capable executive.

    Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
     
    DOLPHAN1 and Silverphin like this.
  3. finwin

    finwin Active Member

    943
    194
    43
    Apr 30, 2013
    Jamestown, NC
    Hickey's is getting his feet wet as a first year GM. He can't fire coaches and he can't do player contracts but he has final say over all players.
     
  4. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    To the owner...
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    37,188
    28,417
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    or to the coach, or to the VP of football operations

    GMs with total power are the minority in the NFL
     
  6. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

    6,782
    4,380
    113
    Mar 9, 2013
    Weston
    anything to continue the national narrative that miami is the biggest joke of a franchise around.
     
  7. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    I'm not saying she hasn't done a good job. I actually think she has done a great job. That being said, the question is do you value her over someone that is an elite talent evaluator? I think clearly her influence and position in the power structure scared away a lot of GM candidates that wanted the typical NFL structure where the capologist answers to them.

    Again, reports came out that when we hired Hickey that we was a generally likeable, easy-going guy, that gets along well with others. Probably one of the reasons we hired him is due to this fact since it would allow him to work within the system and front office structure (with Philbin and Aponte). Now, if we valued those traits over his ability to evaluate talent then this hire will come to fruition as huge failure. Which unfortunately I think will happen.
     
    ASOT likes this.
  8. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    There are very few GM's that answer to coaches and in those cases the coaches also have the GM title, same situation with the VP of football operations. You are listing exceptions not the norm.

    Executive Vice President/General Manager – John Schneider (Seahawks)
    Executive Vice President/General Manager – Mickey Loomis (Saints)
    Executive Vice President/General Manager/Director of Football Operations – Ted Thompson (Packers)
    Executive Vice President of Football Operations/General Manager – Martin Mayhew (Lions)
    General Manager/Executive Vice President – Bruce Allen (Redskins)
    Senior Vice President/General Manager – Jerry Reese (Giants)
    Owner/President/General Manager – Jerry Jones (Cowboys)
    Executive Vice President of Football Operations/General Manager – John Elway (Broncos)
    Executive Vice President/General Manager – Ruston Webster (Titans)
    Executive Vice President/General Manager – Rick Smith (Texans)
    General Manager/Executive Vice President – Ozzie Newsome (Ravens)
    Head Coach/General Manager – Bill Belichick (Patriots)


    All those guys have the titles that you said the GM's answer to, ironically they all have the GM title as well. So technically they are answering to themselves as a GM, not the other way around. All 20 other teams have typical structures where the General Manager is directly below the Owner, President, and CEO (although these positions don't typically make football decisions). Why do you think Elway was named "Executive Vice President of Football Operations" when they hired him and then later promoted to "General Manager" when he did a good job? It may be schematics to you, but it is very important when you are making decisions that will impact your team for the next 10+ years.
     
    Phin5.0 likes this.
  9. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    8,141
    2,103
    113
    Nov 27, 2008
    Atlanta
    I hate them right now
     
  10. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

    2,050
    403
    83
    Nov 26, 2007
    Whenever I'm left to form an opinion based off remarks quoted from some unrevealed "source", these days with increasing frequency, my opinion is derived from the context of the questions that prompt such remarks, and consequently, the degree they can accurately be weighed.

    "defer"
    v. yield to another's wish or opinion
    Synonyms:
    accede, bow, give in, submit

    "refer"

    v. seek information from

    "refer to your notes"
    Synonyms:
    consult, look up

    Type of:
    research
    attempt to find out in a systematically and scientific manner

     
  11. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,308
    9,206
    113
    Dec 18, 2007
    Columbia, South Carolina
    To the cap specialist?
     
  12. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

    4,870
    306
    0
    Mar 29, 2013
    Coral Gables, FL
    Well that is unless you're a blind homer that buries the head in the sand, wearing aqua & orange glasses
     
  13. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

    4,870
    306
    0
    Mar 29, 2013
    Coral Gables, FL
    Dude don't waste your time and breath, I put most of these homer nut cases on block and it's so much better reading these days. The days of reading their crap & practically having a stroke are over.
     
  14. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I don't see disapproval of the news in the OP's post as an over-reaction. Reality is that most people not being homers would object to the idea of the accountant being deferred to 100000%. Everybody agrees that bringing in the best talent possible is what we want our GM to do. A report saying that the accountant is making the final decision should be distressing to anybody hoping to field the best team possible. There were multiple reports during the "GM search" that the highest thought of candidates didn't want the job b/c power concerns i.e.. not being able to fire the coach or having to answer to the accountant. So such a report at this point isn't outlandish. It seems to lend credence to the concerns that were expressed earlier. It makes it appear that the hiring had nothing to do with finding the best GM, but rather with finding the person who would accept the GM title w/o real GM powers. This sounds like Ireland under Parcells again except that this time it's a Parcells acolyte with no personnel experience. You don't have to be be a pessimist to look at such a situation and see how that could bode badly for this team's future.

    I also find the it annoying that anytime anybody disapproves of the accountant having too much power it must be b/c they're sexist. I can't speak for anybody else, but personally I could care less about the GM's gender. I do care about their personnel experience and I don't want them always looking for the cheapest option.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    First of all, that's not what I believe.

    Second of all, we weren't turned down by as many people as you pretend we were. The only guy that turned down a job was Caserio. That's one. The rest turned down interviews because they weren't leaving where they were from (Gamble, McGoughlan, DeCosta, etc.) for ANYONE. Licht took the guaranteed job instead of another interview. Dawson and Farmer were never offered the job. Farmer backed out of another interview for reasons no one is sure about. Was it because of the structure? Maybe. You don't know. It could have been because he didn't want to work with a woman, like others not me have suspected. It could be because he knew the job was his in Cleveland. Again we don't know.

    What we do know is that 13 other teams have GMs that can't fire the coach and numerous other teams have capologists that dictate the size and scope of contracts. There is nothing unique about our set up at all, therefore our set up is not the problem.
     
  16. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,215
    1,896
    113
    Mar 10, 2013
    Buckeye Land
    Caserio wasn't leaving either. He used us and used us well.
     
  17. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,187
    5,086
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Coconut Grove
    If I'm a coach or GM who thinks that a particular free agent is going to fill a hole that desperately needs filling, I'm going to resent a bean counter who vetoes the signing because we can't afford it, regardless of his or her gender.
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    If you can't afford it then you can't afford it, that's not someone's fault...unless they've been making horrible deals.
     
    MAFishFan likes this.
  19. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    lol.
     
  20. BSQ

    BSQ New Member

    117
    9
    0
    Dec 1, 2007
    A source familier.....bull****. Give me a name and then I'll read further. This is boring already. I'm sick of all the negative crap about our team from local reporters. Jesus, we have a team in place. How about if we give them a little time to perform before we say it's horrible? If we start out strong and have a good year where will all these reporters be? As fans we should stop buying into this out and out junk and start pulling for our favorite team. You want to be pissed about something how about asking what the hell happened to this team in the last 2 games of the season. That was an outrage and I'd rather have answers about that then paranoia about Aponte who's been a fine executive for our team.
     
    Bumrush likes this.
  21. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,846
    1,771
    113
    Nov 6, 2013
    Not trying to be funny but...What is the problem? Because there is a problem. We have been mostly an after thought and punching bag for the last decade. The Dolphin name and brand carries a negative vibe, even most of the fan base has become negative. I keep hearing how numerous aspects of this organization are not the problem, that we do the same things that other teams do. Yet....here we are
     
    UCF FINatic likes this.
  22. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,308
    9,206
    113
    Dec 18, 2007
    Columbia, South Carolina
    Sources familiar.....um yes that is how journalism....even serious journalism is done in the real world. People give information and don't want their identity thrown around because they don't want to um....get fired in the NFL or possibly killed in the real world. Yeah I know crazy right? I mean the guys who cover the Dolphins must have invented this weird system of journalism!
    And NO one has been an excellent executive for this losing franchise. No one. You get judged by winning in the NFL. No coach or front office since Shula's days has been successful here, it is what it is.
     
    jinx likes this.
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    IMO, primarily a string of poor decisions when it comes to player acquisitions.
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    lol all you want, but why not also point out a single thing I got wrong and then prove it was wrong....annnnnnnd go!
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    You are conflating different problems and applying them to what I said.

    Suffice to say that OVER THE YEARS, we've had different problems and its foolish and naive to think there's one over arching problem since the 90s. But fine, here we go:

    - Shula's last years-the problem was Shula. He was a poor GM.
    - JJ's years-the problem was Marino & JJ. The bumped heads too much and burned out JJ and ended Dan's career.
    - Wannidot years-He was the problem the whole problem and the only problem. He was a horrible coach and an even worse GM.
    - Saban years-the problem came down to one decision Culpepper over Brees. Had the doctors been more optimistic, Saban would probably still be our coach and him and Brees would be mentioned with Belichick & Brady.
    - Cam years-was EVERYONE's fault. He lacked backbone and the team never gave him a chance. (This is also where the local media really took a 90 degree away from respectability as well.)
    - Sparano years-was Sparano and Parcell's fault. Sparano can't coach and Parcell's blueprint is old and outdated.
    - Philbin's first two years-are Ireland's fault. He never grasped what Philbin was looking for in players. He also always seemed to leave a massive season costing hole in a unit (2012=WRs, 2013=oline, etc.)

    The media has colored your opinion of things by using your disappointment to get you to believe things that aren't true. The media has used the Dolphins as a punching bag for numerous reasons:
    - The Saban era. The media was still loyal, but Saban was such a horrible person that he abused them and people in the building.
    - The Cam year. The media was done being loyal after the torment of Saban, then the players wanted no part of Cam because they wanted Capers. The media took that info and pumped the players for more. They happily obliged and it intensified as they went on to 1 win. The media now was 100% in anti-Dolphins mode now. This shockingly coincides with Armando becoming particularly popular as other beat reporters went away.
    - The Parcells era. Things just got worse. Parcells was Saban-like in his hatred of the media. There was all sorts of turmoil to. The decline after going 11-5. The QB search and missteps. New owner. Parcells waffling.
    - The one year between Parcells and Philbin. The team went 0-7. The alleged Harbaugh rebuff. The Gator Day debacle. The awkward handling of Sparano.
    - The Philbin era. Things started to get better a little with the media and Philbin. They had a media tour the papers appreciated. But soon the Dolphins started not making players as available for interviews or being late for stuff and the media like recovering alcoholics, fell off the wagon and have gone whole hog into the protection racket we see today. They have lied or gotten wrong the following things in just the past 3 years:

    - Specifics around Harbaugh
    - Fisher
    - Gruden
    - Cowher
    - McCoy
    - "The Dual Coaching Search"
    - Manning
    - Flynn
    - Somehow they completely missed the Cogs golf course incident when it happened, which is absurd since it happened at a charity event. (Am I the only that wondered where all these "sources close to the team" were on that one?)
    - The Starks Finger
    - Various things about Cogs & Martin Scandal
    - The Locker Room Coup
    - Missed the whole Ireland vs Philbin & Aponte battle while it was raging. (Where were those sources again?)
    - Gamble was leading candidate
    - Farmer was leading candidate
    - Farmer was offered the job
    - Licht was offered the job
    - Dawson was offered the job
    - Gamble, DeCosta, McGoughlan, Farmer, Ross, Licht & Dawson all turned down the job because of the power structure.
    - A person close enough to Ross to know his motivations decides to tell the media he's doing everything just for fun.

    All of those things are every major thing that has happened and are either completely 100% wrong or major exaggerations. You cannot tell me those things which aren't even true haven't influenced how you feel about the team right now. Without those lies coloring anything, we're left with a team that improved its record. Its young QB started to turn the corner and doubled his TD production. A team that was in the hunt till the very end beat all AFC playoff teams they played during the season. The biggest roadblocks to our success were the GM and OC who are both gone. We landed one of the top OC candidates in the league who also happens to be a QB guru. Virtually all the major participants in the scandal are gone. And our oline coach just got upgraded to one of the best in the business. Oh, and we have decent cap room too.
     
    LI phinfan and resnor like this.
  26. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,846
    1,771
    113
    Nov 6, 2013
    While I do not agree with all you say, I have to thank you for all the effort and info in your posts.That takes a lot of time to do.Love your passion for this team, rose colored or not. How in the world are we still passionate about the Dolphins after all these years.Reading your post almost depressed me!lol Even the lies,misguided agendas and actual facts and dysfunction that have been reported about this team, You, and alot of others still bleed Aqua and Orange(myself included). Wonder how we will be able to handle a decade of Winning and respect(it will return someday) When all of the younger fans have only known embarrasment and lower level mediocrity.
     
    djphinfan and Fin D like this.
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Philbin will lead us there....its already begun, IMO.

    I list many problems through the years and many of them implicate Dolphin royalty, so I'm not sure why you think I have aqua colored glasses. If i was drinking the Kool-Aid I wouldn't blame people like Shula or Marino for anything negative. I think if anything, I've shown I'm being as impartial as possible here. FTR, the scale isn't Gloom & Doom on one side and everything not Gloom & Doom is considered Kool Aid Drinking Optimists. Year before last, I predicted an 8-8 record and I was treated as if I said we'd go undefeated.

    Other than that, thanks.
     
  28. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,187
    5,086
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Coconut Grove
    You're right about it having already begun. People forget that Ireland the asshat is gone, Sherman the senile dinosaur is gone, Martin the wuss is gone, Cogs the locker room cancer is gone, Turner the incompetent is gone, Jerry the lazy may not be re-signed, and it's a strong draft with lots of cap room. The team has improved just based on these events. If I had suggested that these changes would be made right after we lost the second Jets game, everybody who was *****ing would have been happy. Well, here we are.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  29. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    It's clear that you want to believe what you currently believe, so there is nothing I can say or do to change your mind. That being said, I feel stupid for wasting my time. I find it funny that you are chalking up the unknowns as back up for your case. I can point out several things that you said incorrectly:

    WRONG: We were turned down by a lot of guys and I'm not talking about the guys that didn't even interview with us. I am talking people that actually interviewed with us including Farmer. Lake Dawson turned down the job for one. I know you probably won't like this, but here is what Lake Dawson said about our job opening, "I felt Stephen [Ross] is a great owner, passionate and wants to win, but the details of the offer didn't align with my vision," Dawson said in a statement. "I turned it down because it wasn't an ideal fit for my family and me." I could link multiple sources if you would like but here is the USA TODAY http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/dolphins/2014/01/26/dennis-hickey-hired-miami-general-manager/4913399/


    WRONG: Again see the quote and the source listed above.

    WRONG: Here are a couple quotes that go against what you propose. "John Wooten, who heads an organization committed to promoting minority coaching and general manager candidates, explained Farmer’s reluctance to participate in a second interview. “He has reservations about the structure of the Dolphins,” Wooten said. “He’s not certain who would be running things, whether it would be him or someone else. I told him the only way you can find out is to take the second interview and get the answer.”" http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/01/24/3889206/miami-dolphins-gm-candidate-ray.html

    Here is proof he didn't know the job was his in Cleveland: From his opening address to the media: On whether he knew this promotion was a possibility when withdrawing from interviews with the Miami Dolphins: “Absolutely not. That situation was that situation. I spoke to the people in Miami about it pretty clearly. I made my decision, and I rested on that. There were no promises; there wasn’t anything that was said. These two situations are definitely independent.” http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-browns/cleveland-browns-1.270107/transcript-from-news-conference-with-new-browns-gm-ray-farmer-1.465867

    WRONG: I believe you somehow completely missed my point on post #48 in this thread. I'd recommend re-reading it. I was pointing out that there are different titles within an organization, however despite varied titles GM is still in 90% of the cases the highest football decision maker for an entire NFL team. The owners can make decisions regarding coaching personnel too, but directly making player acquisitions, etc. is 90% left to the GM. The two blatant exceptions are Bill Belichick (Head Coach/General Manager) and Jerry Jones (Owner/President/General Manager). Ironically, Bill Belichick's role as a GM would technically be higher up the NFL ladder to the point that he could "fire" himself as coach and remain the GM. It's schematics, but it could happen again reinforcing the fact that GM is a higher on the totem pole than a head coach.

    Additionally, I would venture to say that most if not all NFL teams have capologists, HOWEVER their jobs are to get the best deals for the teams long term and in order to make sure the team remains under the cap and will remain under the cap in future years. They don't dictate the size and scope of contracts like you said; maybe on small minutiae details but not across the board like you imply. Again, the capologist works UNDER and FOR the GM. Typically, the GM would say I want to higher player XXXXX XXXXXXX for $25 million over 4 years; the capologist would then take that information and the current cap projections and try to arrange the signing bonus, roster bonuses, and yearly salaries in a way that is most beneficial for the team and their cap situation.

    ....I can't believe I spent this long explaining this.

    WRONG: Having the GM, capologist, and head coach all answering to the Owner is unique. Farmer questioned our set up, which probably means it is atypical regardless of what Ross and company want to project to the media. "Farmer’s main issue is with the amount of power Stephen Ross has granted executive vice president Dawn Aponte, according to a source close to the situation. Multiple candidates have complained privately that they can’t get a straight answer that they wouldn’t have to report to Aponte. That would apparently run counter to what Ross said at the outset of the search, when he pledged that the new GM would have control of the roster and report directly to the owner." http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/01/24/3889206/miami-dolphins-gm-candidate-ray.html

    "The Dolphins told prior candidates that the GM is not the boss over coach Joe Philbin or vice president of football administration Dawn Aponte. All three would be on equal footing."
    http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/tag/_/name/ray-farmer

    Hickey was among eight candidates interviewed by Miami, with Ross aide Matt Higgins and executive vice president of football administration Dawn Aponte helping the owner with the screening process.http://sports.yahoo.com/news/buccaneers-executive-hickey-hired-dolphins-170645378--nfl.html
    Well that sure is interesting that Dawn Aponte is helping out with the hiring process. Hmmmm, I wonder if this is what scared off Caserio, Farmer, and Dawson. It sure seems to imply that she is close with Ross and has an awful lot of say in the decision making process. I don't know how i would feel if someone who is typically a subordinate is helping out hiring my position. Additionally, this shows you that we do not have a typical set up. It is different, much different. Even if you want to believe the media and that all 3 positions (GM, coach, and capologist) are all on equal footing and report directly to Ross then I would be uncomfortable knowing how close she is to Ross and how they've had a longer relationship together. Again, I am not hating on Aponte I think she has done a great job with our cap room, but it is very obvious that her role scared off a lot of candidates.

    "One former GM, who wished not to be named, said the way the Dolphins’ organization is structured adds to their perceived chaos." http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/01/21/3882288/miami-dolphins-hire-mark-duffner.html
    There it isn't the dreaded "source" or "sources."

    "In a news release to announce the hiring, the Dolphins said Hickey will oversee all aspects of football operations and report directly to Ross. Coach Joe Philbin will continue to report directly to Ross as well, while Aponte's place in the chain of command wasn't spelled out."http://sports.yahoo.com/news/buccaneers-executive-hickey-hired-dolphins-170645378--nfl.html
    Again this is very interesting. You have a coach that doesn't report to the GM and Dawn's role isn't outlined at all. If this is anything like the GM hiring process than Hickey will report directly to Aponte; like many other candidates feared.



    Add all this up and you should see a very concerning picture. If you can't see it then I am not sure what will make you see it. Especially considering that Hickey was likely to be fired from the Bucs after the draft. He essentially HAD to take our job if he wished to remain employed. That and the fact that he was probably our 4th or 5th choice.
     
  30. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

    3,807
    1,279
    113
    Oct 31, 2013
    Houston
    well done, ucf...well done
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Riiiiiight. I'm the one not open minded.

    NOT WRONG:
    I said only one person was offered the job that turned it down. It has been disputed that Dawson & Farmer were offered the job.

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2014/02/inside-look-at-some-of-dolphins-young-players-ross-changes-goldens-defense-on-donofrio-heat.html
    You understand that Farmer admits he wasn't offered the job by what he said, right? And the Dawson thing is so far out of left field that Dolphins are literally confused by what he's saying.

    NOT WRONG:
    That is not proof of anything. If you pay attention you'll realize that even Wooten couldn't understand what the problem was with Farmer. You'll notice he said he didn't understand the structure, and Wooten didn't get why Farmer wouldn't take another interview to get clarity. That certainly points to a direction of either having a problem with a woman OR knowing the Cleveland job was going to be his. Again, what sounds more reasonable: Farmer knew what was going to happen with the Browns and that's why he backed out (of course he couldn't admit it or they'd get the same press Ross did for the Harbaugh thing) or he was confused by a structure not uncommon and just decided out of the blue to not interview further even though everyone else was telling him to interview?

    NOT WRONG:
    I can't believe you spent this long explaining this either....and are still so wrong.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/1336/daily-mailbag-front-office-structures

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/25/5343964/nfl-power-structures-who-really-runs-a-team

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So now back to the facts at hand.

    - There was only ONE confirmed person to decline the job offered, like I said.
    - The facts surrounding Farmer are murky at best, like I said.
    - We have the same or similar structure to many other teams, like I said.

    So now, its really back in your court and the question at hand is are YOU ready to accept these truths or is it YOU who believes what he already believes?
     
    MrClean likes this.
  32. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Hey Fin D, jut let em whine bro.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I wish I could, but there has to be opposition at some point. They cannot be allowed to constantly control the narrative unchecked. Its simply not right.
     
  34. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    You must work in the PR department for the Dolphins.

    While we didn't offer Farmer the job, he turned us down. Turned down in the sense that he didn't want to interview with us a second time. We wanted to interview him a second time though therefore the feelings were not mutual and again he turned us down. He turned us down. I provided a exact quote from Farmer stating he didn't know about the Browns GM position prior to ending things with us, yet you are trying to grasp for an obscure reason why he would pass on our lovely Dolphins. Think about it from a PR perspective, it would look better for the Browns if it appeared Farmer coveted their GM position over ours and actively made a decision to stay there. Under the current circumstances it looks like that was his only offer/choice. But again, it's funny how you are casting aside Farmers own words like they mean nothing and inserting your own belief.

    Also of course the Dolphins would act like they didn't offer Dawson the job in order to save face once he said no. Like your link says they asked Dawson if he would take the job under "certain scenarios" probably could have been involving the atypical structure at which point he said he wasn't interested. It's crazy that you believe an Owner and upper management that did the whole Harbaugh debacle while Sparano was still under contract than a press release from an individual well respected around the NFL. I guess he released that press release for ****s and giggles though.

    Funny that you say those teams are run by a committee. Lets take a closer look:
    Houston Texans - FIRED their HC, yet their GM remained
    Minnesota Vikings - FIRED their HC, yet their GM remained
    Jacksonville Jaguars - Newly hired GM and Coach
    Detroit Lions - FIRED their HC, yet their GM remained
    Pretty sure that this would support my case in several ways. First off, the GM is usually higher on the totem pole than coaches. This is showcased by the fact that 3 coaches were fired while none of their superiors were fired. Secondly, this indicates there is a problem with our organization structure. 3 of the 4 teams with the committee approach fired their HC and the only team retaining its GM and coach is picking #3 overall in this years draft. Yep, thats great company to be in. I feel much better about the future now.

    It's funny, I almost feel like I am being trolled right now. I'm waiting for candid camera to pop out any moment and someone to be like, "We gotcha! There is no way someone would believe all that."

    This was fun while it lasted, but I'm done. I led you to water, but if you don't want to drink that is on you...
     
    NaboCane likes this.
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Jesus christ man. Who's trolling who?

    Farmer is telling the truth but the Dolphins are lying? The Dolphins have no reason to lie, the decision was already made and people already hated it. If they were going to lie for PR sake that story would have ran in more than blurb in BJ's column. Farmer on the hand, has EVERY reason to lie. He could be branded the same way Ross was for talking to Harbaugh with Sparano still on the payroll. Imagine what would be said about him if he went ahead and admitted that he knew he had the job before those guys were fired. Oh wait, GM's don't lie when it comes to beneficial deals, I forgot......:pity:

    They gave Dawson a hypothetical not a job offer. Have you ever been on a job interview? Let's stop pretending question's that begin with "If we hired you what would...." don't exist.

    I said that was the teams structures? Did you not see the effing links I provided? I didn't make those articles up you know. None of the bs you posted about those teams refutes their structures. Remember our GM was fired but our coach wasn't....does that mean the structure you think is rare doesn't exist on this team? I mean c'mon man.

    In the end, the only "evidence" you provided were repeats of the same stories about Farmer and Dawson which at the very minimum have been refuted by the team. Other than that, you flat out made **** up about team structures. You thought you had this big gotcha post, put it turns out it was a dud. That's not my fault.
     
  36. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    I provided you with plenty of evidence. I don't know what else I could do to convince you of my point of view other than wiretapping the Miami Dolphins facility, the Cleveland Browns facility, and the Tennessee Titans facility during the whole process. There are two sides to every story; just because my evidence contradicts what the Dolphins say doesn't mean it is incorrect. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. That being said, I would be more inclined to believe my sources and quotes considering they were first and second person accounts compared to thought-out press releases by an organization with a whole Public Relations department. Taking what the Dolphins say for truth would be like believing a politician running for office, there is probably some truth to it but you know the facts have been skewed. In situations like that you almost have to listen to what wasn't said as much as what was said.

    Those teams that I listed are ones that have a committee approach, I got that list directly off the ESPN link you put on your post.

    Fact of the matter is we will never know who is correct. I believe I am a lot closer to the truth than you are, but it is your right to disagree. I'm glad to see that at least someone doesn't think Hickey was our 4th or 5th choice as GM and who knows maybe both he and our structure will turn out all right. Again, I have my reservations about that. Truth be told, I think within 1 to 3 years we will have a new GM and coach. That being said, I have no clue what happens with Aponte in those 1 to 3 years. I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Now lets get to talking about more positive stuff like who we should go after in free agency and the draft. Also I see you are from Ocala, if you ever make it out to Gainesville we should grab a beer.
     
  37. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    regardless of who officially turned us down or who didn't, the bottom line is we chose Hickey after crossing off the 8 or 9 names above him on the list.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    When it comes to Farmer/Dawson you provided links that I was able to counter with links of my own. Which means at the very least its not quite as cut and dried as you're pretending it was.

    When it comes to our structure being unique you provided nothing and were 100% provably wrong. Being 100% wrong about that also casts doubt over your Farmer/Dawson stories as well.

    The question still stands, can you accept truths you didn't already believe? Its looking like you can't.

    I wasn't questioning where you got the info, I was questioning the logic in you trying to say because person X was fired and person Y wasn't that somehow refutes those power structures exist.

    You're right, we don't know who is correct about Dawson, the evidence arrow however is certainly pointing towards my theory for Farmer though. We do know whose right about our structure...its not you. Also, if only one person turned down the job then Hickey was not our 4th or 5th choice. Again, people were just being interviewed not offered jobs other than Caserio. Licht for example was offered the job in Tampa and a only a 2nd interview here. That doesn't mean he would have been offered the job before Hickey. And ftr, I probably would have offered the job to Xanders so its not like I'm being a homer and acting like Hickey was a great choice or anything.

    Does being a UCF fan in the heart of the swamp make you an outcast? I need to get up there and get to Satchel's.
     
  39. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    I'm actually in dental school at UF so I'm a Gator too. I joke around and tell people that I am a Knighted Gator.
     
    Fin D likes this.

Share This Page