OK NOW I have watched....Henne/Beck

I feel the same way... sort of. Im not going to debate on the releases of the two, nor their footwork, etc. Thats not my job, im not a QB coach, or a talent scout. What I am is a Miami Dolphins fan. I like both of our QB's, I think both have a good chance to be our franchise QB. I don't care much which one it is, as long as we WIN.

That being said, Ive seen an awful lot of Chad Henne seeing as im a michigan fan. The guy is tough, the guy has a strong arm, and the guy is a leader. From watching Beck and the fins last year, he didn't seem to have the team on his side while he was in there. At least that was my impression. I like him, I like what he brings to the table as an athlete, and I love his dedication to improving this offseason, but it sure seemed like when he was in there last year, he had zero confidence (which is understandable in the situation i guess), and the team seemed to have zero confidence in him. That makes me worry. However, now we have basically a whole new team, a new coach, and a new atmosphere in the lockerroom and on the field probably.

Bottom line, as i said i like both guys. I dont want to take sides for either. I want them both to succeed. However, most importantly i want whoever is the best player, and gives us the best chance to win to be on the field... helping to WIN games for us. That is the bottom line.

 

Brandon, my man...great post.

I also don't care which one starts. And you are also correct to say that its the coaches to make the decisions and suffer/prosper from, the consequences.

I think the coaches will make the right decision, whatever that might be.

My only horse in this race was that many of Beck's supporters were vehemently opposed to us drafting a QB in the second round. IMO, based on what we've seen from Beck, that would have been totally negligent. The FO agreed.

Now that we have two potential starters, this competition will play out as it should and the best man will win.

 

somewhere in my heart i kinda want mccown to show them both up majorly and become a beast of a qb. just because that is the least possible thing to happen at this point i think. it would just be funny.

but really, like has been said, i dont care who of the 2 (or 3) succeed, just so long as ONE of them does. new oline, new team, new year, new confidence. hopefully we finally have our qb

 

Michigan is my second favorite team (Gators #1) so I've watched Henne quite a bit. I like Henne as a prospect but I do think he is a step below Beck. In my evaluation criteria accuracy is most important. In this category Beck is far superior. Henne will have games where is accurate but too often he is sporadic. Next is decision making. Beck tends to go through progressions pretty well but Henne will need some work here. He tends to lock on receivers far too much. (Jaws even showed some video of that during the draft.) This may be why you think Henne makes quicker decisions. He doesn't, he just throws to the first option more often even when it's covered. Next is the release. I don't know how you are missing Henne's much longer release. Henne often brings the ball back almost a foot behind his shoulder. This could be a problem in the pros for a QB that isn't nimble. Also Beck does a better job of throwing on time. With intangibles I think they are fairly even. They are both good leaders and both could stand to improve their pocket feel. Arm strength I also feel is close. Henne might have a slight advantage here but not enough to matter. Beck throws more touch passes which makes people question his arm strength but like Henne he was the second strongest arm in his class. They can both put plenty of zip on the out patterns but Beck is better at the long pass. When it comes to footwork Henne is much better. He is quicker and more consistent in his drop backs and he does a better job of setting himself before he throws. Beck has developed a bad habit of throwing off his back foot. Another advantage Henne has is that he has a more NFL ready body. They are both the same height but Henne is just thicker. That may make him more able to absorb hits or shake off glancing blows. Beck is a little more mobile but it's not a major part of either QB's game so IMO it's a non-factor.

Overall, I think Beck grades out higher in the more important categories of accuracy, decision making and release (time to get the ball out of his hand). While Henne has better footwork and a more NFL ready body. I also think that with time footwork and body weight are more easily corrected than accuracy and the release.

 

i want a quarterback that wins i dont care who it is

i have watched a lot of henne and i dont see the long release everyone is talking about i mean people want to make him out to have a byron leftwhich type release

i think beck should get a shot and if he falls flat let henne take over

 

Henne's long throwing motion.

 

Oh come one Ga, he isn't throwing a pass in the flat in the photo...

 

Hey. Really nice post. I dont get the long rlease stuff either. I thought Henne had a pretty quick release myself. I pretty much see Henne the way you do so let me ask you about Beck. Alot of people here feel Beck has good deep accuracy and has good accuracy on the move. I personally think those were his biggest weaknesses from what he showed as a Dolphin. What's your take on Beck's deep accuracy and his accuracy while on the move

 

I just can't help but be excited about what David Lee will do with all three of our QB's!

 

Gotcha. But let me ask you, just regarding Beck alone, not comparing him to Henne, does Beck have good deep accuracy and does he have good accuracy on the move. I dint get a chance to scout him in college so my opinions were formed primarily from his Dolphins tenure and he seemed to float his deep passes and his accuracy seemed rather poor when he threw while running. What's your take on Beck in those areas not comparing him to Henne

 

Hello!!!

Excuse me . . . . . . . excuse me . . . . . . pardon me . . . . . . . um, hello . . . . . . anyone here ever hear of a (MY) kid named Josh McCown? Well dang me if he aint a gonna start for this team come September!

Sorry, but y'all just forced me! Gotta do my job here as Josh's Papa.

And with that out of the way, may the best of the THREE men win!

 

I actually used to work as a scout for an NFL agent so it's possible I am seeing things with a different eye. And I'm a fan of all three of the QBs. (I really don't know anything about Baker). I really liked both Beck and McCown coming out in their respective drafts and as a Michigan fan I've rooted for Henne for 4 years. My evaluation is not based on liking or disliking a QB. It is based on the factors that I believe most translate to NFL success. My guess is that McCown is the most likely day 1 starter but that Beck is the most talented of the three. If Beck is given enough reps and enough time for the game to slow down for him then he is the one with the best chance to be special. Henne has that NFL body and footwork but his accuracy is what may keep him from being elite. IMO accuracy is the most important QB attribute. It is something you either have or you don't. Henne's accuracy is decent but it is not special. I see him as a QB that can (eventually) get you to the playoffs but will only occasionally be able to put the team on his back.

As for the release, I agree that it's not worth our debating it any longer but I do think the Dolphins saw the difference. In Irelands PC after day 1 they asked him what he liked about Henne and he talked about his toughness, 4 year starter, strong arm, etc. (nothing about release or getting the ball out quickly). When asked about Beck he said "strong arm and a quick release". He then went on to talk about how they were just gathering good football players and that drafting Henne had nothing to do liking or not liking Beck, etc. But it sounded to me like the release was a counter-point between the two QBs. That he felt it was a significant difference. My guess is that once TC starts we'll hear a lot more about that difference.

 

Thanks for the input. Its funny you mention Fiedler. Its who he reminds me of also. Slightly better version but what does that get you? One extra win in the playoffs maybe?

 

Actually, Cam Cameron did mention Beck's mechanics early on. He was asked about it in one of the early PCs. Cam said that Beck's release point was a little low but that they didn't feel it would affect his accuracy so they weren't going to mess with it. In my experience it's just a philosophy difference. It was noticed by both regimes but it was given different levels of importance.

It was the same thing with the footwork. Beck played out of the shotgun a lot in college. It was always going to be one of his biggest NFL adjustments. The reports out of training camp were that it was the first thing they started working on. So your evaluation was accurate but you weren't the only one to notice it. I just think that you've been hanging out with people with less evaluation skill than you have. All they do is parrot the few things they read. I ran into that at the old finheaven site in the main. The VIP site there is what kept me coming back. There were still disagreements but they were more likely to be based on rational thought and personal observation.

With regards to the arm strength, it's not just a subjective evaluation. Beck had the fastest velocity at the combine when measured by a radar gun. I think that in the games though Beck usually employs more touch than most so that's confused with lacking arm strength. I personally wouldn't advise him to change that unless CBs started jumping his routes. If he's getting it there with the right timing without firing it then it is a much more catchable pass.

 

Excellent post. Quick question though. Were you comparing college film vs. college film? Or Beck in Miami vs. Henne in college?

 

I did a little research on Henne, watching several videos. He does have somewhat of an elongated release, but not on all of his throws. He seems to bring it back farther to get added velocity on his throws. He definitely has a strong arm and throws a nice tight spiral.
Truthfully, I am excited by all three of the quarterbacks and hopefully we have the nice insurance at QB we have lacked for so long.
We have the coaches in place to get the most out of the talent on hand and I cant wait for the season to start.

 

One thing Jay Fielder did not have was good velocity on this throws. The guy could not throw a good out pattern

 

That's what I'm wondering.

 

I think the comparison of John to Jay Fielder is very good as far as desire and drive are conserned. If Jay had been given John's arm we would have had a QB to remember. That is one of the reason I really like and want John to succeed. More than that though is the fact that I want the best guy on the field for us no matter who it is. I want the Dolphins to become winners again and soon.

 

JF's out pattern throws were always an adventure. They probably caused more breath holding in the stadium than any other single act.

 

Good thread all around.

 

Oh no I wasn't implying that you were trying to fool anyone, I just read your original post and didn't see it mentioned.

Regarding whether or not a Sparano offense will resemble a Parcells offense etc., you don't have to extrapolate or speculate too hard, if you recall Sparano was Dallas's OC during Parcells last year. 2006. Much was made about Jason Garrett's breakout offense last year, but if you compare stats, Sparano's was not much behind, and thats with a greener Romo. 360 ypg (sparano) vs. 365 ypg (Garrett).

I am in no way qualified to break that down, but just look to 2006 for a glimpse. Just remember, Parcells is now upstairs, Sparano is now the Coach, and Henning the OC.

 

Good thread. Personally I'm rooting for Beck because I think he has the most potential for greatness, but if McCown or Henne turns into the new Derek Anderson I'm all for it.

I'm rooting for Beck because of the leadership and how well he played in CrunchTime in college. That doesn't mean Henne or McCown can't do that...

 

Good call! Thinking back JJ may have had the strongest Dolphin arm. Dan had great velocity but JJ may have had just as much and he could definitely throw it farther.

 

I'd still go with JF's out. It just took so long to get there that the breath holding became difficult and the exhale if the pass got there was audible throughout the stadium. Of course if the pass was picked then the exhale became a curse which was also audible.

 

John Beck on his release: http://www.wqam.com/index.php?page=347&sid=vj601nab53o6pqc64sun229ia2 *it was interview number 11 at the time that I made this post*


Basically he says that they got it back to where it was before he got injured his sophomore year. He was getting his shoulder shot up and taped down which changed his throwing motion, and no one asked him to change it back.


He also had really good things to say about Ted Ginn.

 

This is from the sun sentinel: