Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

It opened the floodgates for a few hours. Once that was posted, a bunch of fans pretty much went "Hey, how come I didn't think of that?!?!?!" Quite amusing actually.

Also, interesting trend in cable/satellite, as close to 1.5% of all households canceled their television service in the last month. Not sure if this is a trend towards people getting it off the internet, or just price concerns or what, but if it continues, it means less potential and real eyeballs exposed to wrestling (as well as everything else, obviously). I wonder if you see the WWE react to something like this.

 

They need to make another big mainstream push the way they did in the 80s with MTV. They need to do that as well as beg mainstream stars like Rock and Austin to make as many appearances as they can get out of them. Not using their entire roster at once to put over Triple H should also help them get a few more viewers. I saw a replay of the walkout deal from Raw the other day, it was lame to say the least. I never liked the Triple H COO angle to begin with though.

 

Netflix basically killed off Blockbuster and the rental industry.

I think services like Netflix (streaming) and Hulu are starting to have a similar impact on the cable industry itself. I actually cancelled my cable earlier in the year for this very reason. Your numbers only seem to back that trend up. I foresee things getting worse before they get better.

Interesting enough, individual content providers are reacting to this change. Later this month HBO and UFC will both be launching their own "networks" on XBox Live. The UFC news is interesting, right? Dana White is this millenium's new Vince McMahon. The dude has a knack for being out ahead of the curve on things.

 

The way we're headed there will be no need for cable or satellite TV maybe within the next ten years. Netflix completely destroyed the movie rental store. Now cable is in their crosshairs. TV networks should be able to adapt to this pretty easily. I'm assuming that companies like Netflix have to pay to offer their programming. Advertisers are going to have to adapt. The competition for live sporting event commercials should become even fiercer. People in this day pretty much watch everything else on their own schedule rather than the network's. I've seen that WWE is creating their own network but if they don't get onboard with the on demand streaming they'll surely fail.

 

Wow RAW is just bad now. I mean it was poor before but it's just bad. They totally killed the Punk character and now he gets to play 2nd fiddle again to Triple H. And now Triple H gets to bury Miz and R-Truth at the next PPV and get to rub elbows with Cena & The Rock at Survivor Series.

And Morrison should just quit the WWE now, it's obvious he's never getting out of the dog house.

 

The thing is that as much as I always hated HHH, aside from Punk he is one of the few entertaining people left in the business. I can literally count on my fingers the number of wrestlers who have all around appeal. Personality, microphone skills, wrestling ability. The HHH COO angle worked for me but it seemed so rushed. They should have let all the twists and turns happen over lets say three to six months instead of three to six weeks.

Also, I would rather have watched HHH wrestle a broom with Punk on commentary than what actually happened on last weeks raw. So now not only does the WWE title have no meaning, neither does being the COO/heading raw.

 

Seriously, couldn't someone other than Randy Orton win that Battle Royal? Like Sheamus (since his character is actually interesting now).

 

Smackdown hasnt been that bad.

 

I agree that the Punk Angle wa skilled, as was the HHH COO angle. If they slow burned both, you could be talking about Punk vs. HHH co-headlining Wrestlemania with Cena-Rock. Instead...we won't get anything near that as HHH will lose for a third time to Undertaker and Punk will probably curtain jerk.

Honestly though, right about NOW would have been the time to bring Cm Punk back after we walked out of the company. You could have had him buy time on WWE programming to cut promos with his title, maybe show clips of him defending it in indy feds that the WWE decided to work with and obviously have Punk reference the paper champion(s) within the WWE, getting more and more frustrated that he isn't being recognized as the true champion he is/was.

Meanwhile, you have McMahon relieved of duty by HHH as it happened. You have HHH first ignore Punk's shenanigans, until Punk becomes too much of a thorn in his side to ignore, and HHH does everything in his power to sign him back. Meanwhile, since HHH is so pre-occupied with Punk, things around Raw/Smackdown, start to fall apart. Henry injures wrestler after wrestler, refs are getting beat up, "fans" start jumping the aisles, production errors, etc.

The wrestlers at first don't say or do much about it, but as it continues to spiral out of control, they start openly complaining to HHH who ignores them because he has bigger fish to fry, and asks Johnny Ace to handle it. And Ace starts greasing the wheels of the talent in order to win them over and eventually stab HHH in the back.

Then, as Punk returns, HHH remains focused on unifying the Raw title, stuff still continues to go awry around the show and THEN you start the Miz/Truth angle. Have them attack from the crowd at Survivor series. Can you imagine the heat of a Rock/Cena/Punk/HHH named main event being crashed right in the middle of a big face comeback by Miz/Truth? Have them just annihilate everyone in the ring. Have the night end in a no contest. The crowd will be pissed, the wrestlers will be pissed, and the announcers can sell it as mayhem in the WWE and no one has control anymore, blah, blah, blah.

The Monday after Survivor Series, you cold open with a group of wrestlers in the ring, demanding an end be put to this HHH reign and that everything is out of control, and if nothing changes...they walk. Have HHH come out, let them walk out like they did, and have scab workers (FCW, indy guys, etc.) work a week or two until some of the scabs break party lines, weasel their way back to work and all that other stuff.

Before Royal Rumble, you can then have the board, remove HHH from power, tell him that he is still employed as an active wrestler however and that his new boss will be booking him how he sees fit. Johnny Ace is revealed to be the new boss, and ALL the wrestlers are more than happy to do his bidding because he was taking care of them while HHH was busy with Punk. Reveal Punk to be in cahoots with Ace since ACE was th eone who caved to Punk's contract demands and gave him everything he wanted...and then some.

At the Rumble, you have HHH go #1, and Punk (assuming he isn't the champ) go 30th. Everyone keeps trying to toss HHH out but he last to the end, when Punk and some co-horts use shenanigans to get him out. Punk decides to ask for a title match prior to WM, with his thought process being that he can main event the February PPV as well and thus get even more money.

He wins, and then wins his match at WM...only to here HHH's music hit (who won MitB earlier in the night) come out, cash in his briefcase and fight Punk for an extra 15-20 minutes, kick, wham, pedigree...new champ. Johnny Ace's hand picked champ is fallen, HHH ultimately gets his revenge, Punk is forever a Main Eventer and holds fac ebecause he lost his title after defending it for a long while prior to being blindsided and then you top it off with Cena-Rock to finish.

That's what I would have done anyways...

 

It's obvious WWE doesn't want Punk to be anything because he isn't a meathead on steroids who can't wrestly aside from a big boot to the face or a body slam. Also he doesn't repeat the same moves over and over like is so very popular right now. For example watch a Cena match, his moves ALWAYS come in the EXACT same order. Two clotheslines, that suplex slam thing, a stupid *** YOU CANT SEE ME (sorry John we can, its more like no-one wants to see you over the age of six. Its like the rock said, first came Kermit the frog, then barney, then Cena)

This isn't a screw over like as part of a show that is entertaining, it's a real life screw over. They pretty much said "Here Punk resign with us (his contract really was running out) we will spotlight you." So they did for about a couple weeks and then they said "Okay you're signed we are done with you"

WWE needs new writers and to really take a look at WTF they are doing.

 

Uhm...not for nothing but Punk's status has risen CONSIDERABLY since he re-signed. Aside from the bungled angle, he is still in the main event scene weekly, he is also one of th etop sellers in merchandise, has more new products out than anyone not named Cena and is currently working with WWE Films to be placed into movie roles. Like it or not, the WWE is capitolizing on Punk's white hot persona right now. They could be doing OODLES more with him/it, but I won't torch them for not trying to sell him everywhere and anywhere, currently.

 

Funny you mention Cena's ring work, I was calling that John Cena move sequence out to my nine year old daughter the other day while we were watching him. How hard is it to mix things up a little? I get it that it's a staged show and all but damn.. nobody could do the exact same thing repeatedly in any kind of competition and have success.

 

It seems to me like they are just trying to slowly phase him out of the title picture. I could be wrong. It just seems ridiculous to me that Punk beat Cena TWICE and was not allowed to keep his title for more than a day either time.

They would rather push Del Rio, who is a much better wrestler than Cena at least. The main reason they are still pushing Punk at all is the fans. Even Vince has said he doesn't really understand why Punk is popular at all. The man isn't liked. Though HHH likes him in real life apparently so maybe he gets a big push. However Stephanie is a Cena fan from what I've heard, and HHH doesn't like Cena.

Real life is becoming more interesting than the staged part.


One thing I'd like to see is a Sin Cara vs John Morrison feud. Could be some very solid wrestling. I'd like to see Sin Cara get some more experience first however.

 

Personally I like Del Rio. The character is great.

 

I agree. I'm glad they pushed him to the top of the card.

 

Vince really knows how to please wrestling fans in 1985. He's having a hard time figuring it out in 2011. Just look at the tough enough winner this past season. Kevin Nash 2.0. He may have been the least charismatic contestant on that show. I respected his work ethic but this is entertainment. Fans love guys who 'shouldn't' be around the main event but find ways to get there anyway. That's why people liked Christian before Vince turned him into a whiny heel. [But I'll give him credit for not completely burying hin in the midcard this summer.] That's why people used to love Mick Foley. The man looked like a slob but was a really good performer and set the bar at a level that stars who are much more athletically gifted are still striving to reach.

 

The WWE is a bit down on Punk right or wrong because even though his mech is selling really well, he didn't help spike house show attendance and although MITB PPV drew better than it did last year, Summer Slam did not nor has the RAW ratings really gone up with him at the top. Personally I think it's BS and due to the poor storylines and how they're handling him.

 

You mean mexican JBL? He is a copy, but a better one IMO

 

Here's the ESPN doc on Scott Hall that aired last night:

http://www.youtube.com/v/FdbA9uHXJ7c

It's really amazing how he's still alive.

 

Looks like Mick Foley is returning to the WWE the week before Survivor Series and is also booked for the week after too.

 

I love you foley!!!

 

Okay, I am not sure where the "Vince hates Punk and the WWE stuff is coming from." If you guys are pulling that off of message board reporters...I really think you should consider the source.

Del Rio is pushed to the main event for a number of reasons, but I am convinced that he got the title because of their tour of Mexico and to raise his profile within the company for international, spanish speaking markets.

As for Cena's sequence of moves, sure he repeats them, but he isn't the first. Bret Hart was notorious for his "five moves of doom." Shawn Michaels used to hit the same set ups for his superkick until late into his career. Hell, The Rock did the same maneuvers that popped the crowd, in the same order, each and every match. Even when he came back he hit the same catch phrases while talking. American wrestling is very match a Pavlov's Dog type of scenario. Psychology and movesets aren't as important as highspots and recognizable sequences/phrases/moves that a crowd can pop for and realize that this is an area of a match/promo that is leading towards the end game.

Think of it this way, just about every match that ends with a rollup out of no where, is crapped on for having an anticlimactic finish. Cena, Rock, Hart and all the others, basically give a tip off to the crowd that we are entering the end game of the matchup and this is what they need to pay attention to. Now is this right? Not for me to say, but it is what it is.

As for Foley, I have, and will forever be a fan of his. I kind of wish he would quit being such a goof all the time as I find him less effective as an oaf on TV, and moreso when he is being intense and allows himself to go off into promo land.

 

I wouldn't say Vince hates CM Punk but I bet he doesn't get his character nor does he relate to him because he doesn't have the typical wrestler look. Anyway my post above was regarding how the WWE is a bit down on him because he did little to spike the ratings in both house shows and RAW. He helped raise the buy of MITB but Summer Slam was a bust in terms of buys. I got all my info from Keith Scott who's a pretty good source, in my opinion.

 

Its not hate so much as gross mismanagement and they continue to give Cena head on national TV every week.

Punk beats Cena TWICE, is probably the best wrestler in WWE right now as far as an all around package, and both times he isn't allowed to keep the title even a day. The second time to put who over? HHH? Was the Kevin Nash thing really necessary? The WWE would rather have Cena capture the title 16 times in three days and pad his stats than give an actual wrestler a chance at a title run.

 

Again I think a lot of it goes to the ratings. The WWE saw how Punk did little with house show numbers and ratings/buys and the people behind the scenes that didn't like Punk to begin with started to lose faith in him and whisper in Vince's ear.

And yes it was a huge mismanagement on the WWE's part, especially with Nash (who wasn't allowed to wrestle due to his movie contract). And of course Punk jobbed to Triple H, who didn't see that one coming?

 

John Morrison is still getting a really good crowd reaction when he comes out. The Mexicans gave him a lot of love on Smackdown. I can't remember the last time I saw him get a win. They could use another good face and it seems like they're wasting one.

I love that Foley is coming back. I love that guy, I would put him up there with Rock and Stone Cold as one of the reasons I started watching Raw over Nitro near the end of the 90s. They always jobbed him a little too much IMO but he created so many memorable moments you don't really think that much about who won or lost anyway. I wonder what his role is going to be now and hopefully he'll be at the December PPV I'm going to.

 

Morrison is deep in the WWE dog house because of his girlfriend Melina (who was released this year). Really his only shot is to dump her or to go to TNA because it doesn't look like he's going to catch a break at the WWE. Which is too bad because he's very talented and has the look.

As for Foley if I were to guess I'd say a special referee at Survivor Series.

 

Morrison's contract is also coming to an end. Traditionally, the WWE will job a guy out if his contract is expiring to make them look weak in case they decide to jump ship. Also, because it is tradition in wrestling to put as many guys over on your way out as you can (whether it be retirement, leavign a company or otherwise).

Punk just flew down to FCW to work with Dean Ambrose (Jon Moxley) on Saturday. Moxley, in my opinion, would be the BEST talker in the WWE tomorrow if he were called up, and is a great wrestler to boot. His look needs a little bit of tweaking, but Punk put him over big time on the mic after the 20 minute match. My point is, the WWE TRUSTS Punk to help develop their next crop of stars. And they are slapping his name/face on just about everything these days, including attaching him to possible movie roles. Punk was re dhot when he had his little mutiny over the summer, but as someone else once said, a mutiny can't remain a mutiny forever. You either peter our or become part of the orthodox. Punk is now a part of the orthodox, once again.

So he isn't carrying the title...so what? The titles have been devalued to the point of no return. Whether Cena is a three time champ or a 23 time champ doesn't matter. Hell, some wrestlers transcend the belt. Undertaker, HBK, HHH, Foley, Flair, Hogan, etc. Those guys should never win titles again and they will still pop a crowd, draw money and put butts in the seats. Punk is quickly becoming a mini version of that. Sure, Cena is on that level too, but SOMEONE has to wear the damn strap and have it be believable, I suppose. Besides, Cena show sup for work, day in and day out, deals with a silly character that he tries his best to make work and is the mos tpopular wrestler on the planet. It is hard to argue with WWE's logic when it comes letting him run with the ball.

As for Scott Keith...he is an okay source. He is awfully detached at this point though. His books were terrible, and completely inaccurate. But he is a solid writer. I used to enjoy reading his stuff way back when.

 

The thing is that the reason the title is devalued is because people like Cena win it 23 times. The fact is that he isn't a very good wrestler or character, and the main reason he is who he is today is because he entered the WWE at a time where it was even more devoid of talent than it is now.

 

I'm not a Cena fan nor Cena hater but he's a superstar. He has the look, is a hard worker, he's ok on the mike and whenever there's a big match he usually delivers. He's not going to give you consistent 4 or 5 star matches but he's a solid 3 star worker, which is pretty good. Not only that but he sells a ton of mech and always pops the crowd, whether it's cheers or heat. Cena would probably have gotten over in any Era. Now you can say his character is flat, overexposed and stale now, because that's absolutely true but the guy is a star.

 

I agree that Cena would have had success in any era but in the attitude era he's a mid carder at best. What does Cena bring to the table that would get him over the likes of Stone Cold, Rock, HHH, Foley, Undertaker, and Shawn Michaels at or near their primes? I say this and I like Cena for the most part. I would say three stars is an accurate assessment.

 

Cena probably would have had a Chris Jericho/Kurt Angle type run in the Attitude era where he'd have a bunch of IC, Tag, Hardcore, & European title reigns and win the World Title once or twice. So yeah he'd probably be an upper mid carder, just on that next tier waiting to break out but never be given a long run at the top.

But again that's because Stone Cold, The Rock and even to a lesser degree Triple H at that point were just so freaking good. Talented guys like Jericho, Angle, Benoit and Guerrero couldn't get to that next level just because the top guys were all time talents. Once Austin and Rock left and spots were open that's when those guys along with Lesnar and Batista were given real shots.

 

That's the thing I'm saying. Not that Cena doesn't belong in WWE, rather he doesn't belong headlining. If you are a headliner you need to deliver some great matches on that five star scale. Maybe part of it is this new PG WWE but Cena can't even carry a match really

 

But Cena has delivered 5 star matches, he just needs the right opponent. Cena isn't a Flair or HBK but he's not a Great Khali either. The guy is an average to above average worker (sometimes) but he's not going to deliver 5 star matches on a consistent basis. In fact there's not many guys in the WWE roster right now that can either.

 

Just read the results of the PPV. Great to see the WWE protecting Triple H and letting CM Punk do the job. Makes sense, I mean you want to keep Punk strong to face ADR at Survivor Series for the title right? So you might as well job him.

And I'm guessing that means Triple H is going to wedge himself into the SS main event with Cena and The Rock against Nash & Awesome Truth. Either way it's a win for the WWE Universe, I mean who doesn't want to see a Triple H vs. Nash feud. I mean it was awful back in 2003 so I bet they were saving the work rate for now to set the world on fire.

Kind of disappointed they didn't give Ryder the win over Ziggler there, it would have made perfect sense to give him the rub too and also keep Ziggler strong and credible.

 

So WWE basicly reused the lesner/show ring callaps agian with henry/show.

 

Let me tell you having watched that PPV and thank god I didn't pay for it....that was absolutely horrible. Absolutely no story progression. Nothing happened back stage, the matches were all stale. Seriously the best match was the Divas Championship.

 

The PPV has actually garnered pretty positive results thus far. Ziggler went over strong and is seemingly in very good standing with the company. It wouldn't surprise me if he is the next guy mid-carder to get a serious look at a main event push. He has a great look, bumps incredibly well and can talk. Plus he is connecting with the audience so its all there, just have to cultivate it.

The ring spot was completely lifted from the Lesnar/Show bit many years back, but it is still a cool visual to see, and made the main event dynamics way different, which was nice to see. Also, kudos to the Divas for putting on a great match. Those are few and far between.

Anyone see the perks involved with Punk's new WWE deal? Guy gets first class accomodations and his own tour bus wherever he goes. I am not shedding a tear for his character anymore. SO he took a pin...big deal. He is still going to be in the SS main event, and most likely involved with the December PPV Main Event, as well as being a finalist in the Royal Rumble (I am predicting an Orton win). Guy is in really good standing with the WWE. I would be more concerned with Daniel Bryan, personally. He is a guy who has gotten way lost in the shuffle as of late and it's borderline criminal the way they haven't been using him.

 

Honestly, I don't think I ever seen a MitB winner job as much as DB has been lately.

 

Really? He's basically back to being used the way he was before he broke out that promo in June, the only thing different is that he has outside perks now. His character has been butchered since Summer Slam. It made zero sense to have him lose to Triple H (but we all know why he did) and his angle with Nash went completely nowhere and killed some of his heat because the whole thing was just a confusing mess, then he had to play 2nd fiddle to Triple H and got to job to Awesome Truth. That's great he's going to face ADR at SS but he's not the one that they're going to build that PPV around (The Rock and Cena will be the draw and they should be). All the hype that Punk was going to be the next Austin is pretty much lost now, although it was probably a bit unfair to compare the two, but let's face it his character has really lost a ton of steam. I still love Punk but I'm not marking out for him like I was over the summer and I bet most people feel the same way too. I don't blame Punk, I blame the WWE for their poor storylines with him. And again it doesn't do him any favors that some of the powers that be aren't his biggest supporters.

I agree about Bryan, I wouldn't be shocked to see him lose his MiTB briefcase on a random Smackdown with the way they're using him now.