Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

"Ray Finkle wrote:

High Energy had a gimmick? I just thought they put both guys together because they had nothing better to do with either. They might have had the worst wrestling attire ever. I mean bright colored puffy pants with checkered suspenders? Seriously what was Owen thinking then?

Agreed on the Quebecers, not only did they have a great theme but they were a pretty good and underrated tag team. I never understood why the WWF spent so much time building them up for almost 9 months and then had them job to the Headshrinkers and they were never heard from again. Only to have Pierre repackaged as a pirate.

I liked the heel team of the Natural Disasters but couldn't get into them as faces. As for Money Inc. I wasn't a fan only because IRS bored the crap out of me with both his gimmick, no charsma and boring move set.

I was going to try and save the whole Gang Warz teams for another debate but I agree I hated the Boriquas (I didn't care for the DOA or Nation either but they didn't bug me as much as Savio and Co.) especially since they were the worst gang yet always seemed to win matches.

Rotundo is a wrestler I have always respected. I got into him when he was Michael Wallstreet and Terri Runnels (Alexandra York and she was SMOKING hot) was his manager. That prick always seemed to win matches which annoyed the pee out of me. I think as IRS, he was SUPPOSED to be boring since he was playing an accountant. It was such a bad gimmick, but he somehow was able to parlay it into a believable character in a way.

I tend to agree about the Natural Disasters being better heels. I should have clarified.

Oh and we can add Men On a Mission to the list of tag teams I hate. Mo, Oscar and Mabel...yuck

Oh quick ratings show what I expected it to be. Raw = 3.7, Impact = 0.8. I figured that Impact would draw a lower rating because A: They were taped and people read the spoilers (like I did), and B: Austin was on Raw. So even if Impact WAS taped, a lot of people probably wouldn't have tuned in, or tuned in less.

Anyhow, next week should be interesting. If Impact can bring their rating back up to a 1.0 or higher, then we will essentially have our baseline for Mondays set, and be able to judge more accurately from there.

I guess we can keep going with underrated tag teams now:

-Hollywood Blondes (I don't think people really appreciate how good they were because they were only a team for a couple of months but were great)
-Orient Express (very good workers that could put on good matches but the tag scene was so stacked at the time they never were given a chance)
-Rougeous Brothers (again same thing with the Express)
-The Quebecers (very talented team)
-Owen Hart & British Bulldog

the Rotunda conversation reminded me of a good faction/ underrated tag team he was part of: The Varsity Club.

"Coach" Kevin Sullivan managed Rotunda (Syracuse All-American amateur), Rick Steiner (Michigan All American amateur), and Dr Death Steve Williams (Oklahoma All American amatuer).

they kind of interchanged between the three as a tag team, and wore their letterman jackets and singlets to the ring.

over time they played up Steiner as a simpleton who was being controlled by the bad guys and they turned on him, making the Dog Faced Gremlin a baby face. they also used Terry Runnells in this gimmick as Steiner's nerdy ringside fan turned super hot girlfriend.

"Ray Finkle wrote:

This might shock some people but I've been digging Randy Orton a lot lately. Probably since around Survivor Series time. I just think he's really improved in both his in ring skills and mike work. I do wonder how he's going to fare as a face but he's been getting pretty loud pops, ever sicne the Rumble (I wonder if he didn't face Sheamus if that would have started up, but it probably was only a matter of time). The key for him as a face is to not change a thing that he's doing with his character. He still needs to be the viper and have that slow walk and keep being who he is. Once he starts kissing babies and shaking hands the fans will crap on him much like they did in 2004.

I don't mind that it's a Legacy triple threat match as I always felt Rhodes should be wrestling at WM anyway.

And it's nice to finally see Sheamus actually getting a reaction from the crowd.

I also thought the Bret Hart/McMahon cast beatdown looked pretty poor, especially since Bret's first shot was kind of sloppy and McMahon didn't really sell it because Bret hit him more on the arm. But I agree I don't think we needed Bret explaining his injury was staged, just showing Vince he didn't need the cast would have been good enough.

Yes I feel the exact same way about Orton. I am afraid that once he becomes a face that his character will water down and eventually lose what makes him the Viper. The reason why the fans are cheering is because of the way he is now and want to cheer him for that. The minute he walks down the ramp as a face smiling and shaking hands is when it becomes his first face run all over again. I liked him as a heel and wouldnt mind them keeping him a tweener for awhile before they turn him fully face. He can really be a major character for them and serves as a great antihero if they play their cards right.

It seems like this debate of favorites/least favorites/underrated debates are starting to thin out so I'll just tackle managers and stables to wrap it up:

Favorite managers:
Bobby Heenan (was great on the mike and always good for a laugh and was always ready to take a bump)
Elizabeth (just gave the Macho Man that much more to his appeal)
Paul Heyman (I loved him as Brock's mouthpiece, it's too bad the WWE screwed that one up as well)
Slick (I loved the guy, probably because of his Jive Soul Bro theme and music video)
Jimmy Hart (Megaphone was a great touch, and he knew how to annoy people)

Most hated:
The Genuis (those poems were terrible and it's a shame Macho Man's brother was put in a crappy position)
Mr. Fuji (yeah he's a legend but he managed tons of crappy teams outside of Demolition and never had winners)
Jose L (yeah no way I can spell out his name but he managed HBK in '96 during his championship run which I think really hurt HBK's character a lot)
Ted DiBiase (he could have done and been so much more as a manager)

Stables:
Horseman (no need to explain)
Original nWo (from the birth until Starcade '97, then they were watered down)
Original DX (HBK, HHH, Chyna, Rude just made edgy and good TV)
Radicalz (the guys could work obviously, unfornately it was short lived)
The Heenan Family (just a stable of good workers with old school heel tactics)
1997 Hart Foundation (just a great stable I view them as the WWF verison of the Horsemen really)
Original Brood (the theme and entrance was just awesome until Vince Russo decided to switch out Edge and Christian with the Hardys)

Most hated:
All 3 of the gang wars teams
The Oddities (just so dumb)
Katentai (a bunch of jobbers)
any of the watered down verisons of the nWo whether it was Hollywood, Black & White, Wolf Pack, LWO, BWO, WWF nWo etc
The Union
Million Dollar Corporation

If Ray loses to CM Punk at Mania he will have to join the Straight Edge Society.

I think that could be really interesting if Ray joins them.

On Managers, I was always partial to Jim Cornette, as I think he's always had a good mind for the business. As a kid I was always entertained by Classy Freddie Blassie.

As far as useless managers, I really hated Sonny Ono in WCW. I thought he was third rate Mr. Fuji.

I'll expand on stables later ... don't have the brainpower to process it right now. :lol:

You.Never.Quit.

Watching the TNA PPV, here are some tidbits of my thoughts...Scott Hall suited up in his old blood ring gear and didn't look as bad as I thought he was going to. Kevin Nash turned on Eric Young in the contract match and joined with Hall and syxx pac to their old Wolf Pack music after the match was over. Ric Flair came out at the start in a wheel chair which was funny because he kept yelling at the fans telling them to "ask your mother about me" or something to that effect. They kept wooing while he was talking, Flair told them to shut up, so instead of the "what!" chant they were wooing after every word. Generation Me really has been a solid tag team since joining TNA. I have been impressed with all their acrobatic wrestling, I haven't really seen them make any mistakes. I didn't watch the last two matches yet, so that's why I have no comment on them.

The main event for the PPV was pretty...clusterific. I saw someone else say this and I happen to agree that Hogan seems to be personally booking the main event program himself and it has been awful. I could be wrong, but it just seems like the type of stuff that Hogan would book.

Having said that, I might be more inclined to watch Impact tonight since it is live, and I think they will pull out all the stops on live shows, and RAW is the go home show before Wrestlemania, which means that the wrestling will be kept to a minimum and the promos a plenty.

I expect Kane and Pete Rose to have a confrontation that DOESNT end in a tombstone.

I anticipate Foley facing Jarrett on Impact

and I assume that the ratings will be roughly the same as they have been since this "war" started up.

Whos idea was it to have Pete Rose as a host? He sux

Looked like he was scrambling to remember his lines during the HBK segment.

Yeah, Rose was awful.

I liked Batista's promo, a lot. This heel character is perfect for him. A nice solid build for WM all around.

Impact was okay. Odd way to start with Bischoff playing the guiter in the ring. Although, honestly, I was intrigued by the uniqeness of it in a way.

And it looks like they are going with shocking tv to try to pull viewers. I have always hated when they do injury angles like they did with Hernandez tonight. I know the point is to generate heat for Morgan and build interest, but I hate the "this is real, which means all the other stuff is fake," voices announcers go into with stuff like this.

I also think they are thinking that RVD and Hardy are their draws for the main event since they announced that those two will be in the main event next week as well. Probably a smart move as both have name recognition and cross over appeal (cross over for WWE fans).

Not a bad show from them either. Two live shows on Monday Night makes for an exciting atmosphere, regardless of what the ratings are right now.

I thought that was a good TNA show overall it feels like its starting to come together a little bit....or it may just be me.??? I hate how they never talk about what happened to Samoa Joe though, its like it never happened.

I didn't see either show again this week, just read the recaps but it doesn't sound like I missed much with either show.

Ratings:

Impact: 0.86 (up from 0.84). Looks like we have our base for Impact now. Still a drop from their first live Monday show, but a slight improvement over last week which has to be at least slightly encouraging. I'll be curious as to what the numbers are once the quarter hours come out. I expect a weak rating next week with the taped show AND the post-Wrestlemania crowd tuning in to Raw. Speaking of which...

Raw: 3.24 (down from 3.7). That has GOT to be disappointing for Raw going into their biggest show of the year. I think they have donw a tremendous job of building Wrestlemania and last night was no exception, so it has to be a tad concerning that a significant portion of their audience last week felt compelled enough to not watch this week. They still trounce Impact by roughly a 4 to 1 margin in viewership, but Impact being able to slightly build their audience while Raw lost a bunch of viewers is actually surprising to me.

Who knew Dancing with the Stars viewers were also closet Raw fans? Or vice versa... :shifty:

You know what to tell you the truth I have been enjoying RAW for the most part as of late. TNA I hope does better but Im not really a fan of their booking,how many face/heel turns can you have in a week,it doesn't make sense to have that many.

"Thunderbolt89 wrote:

You know what to tell you the truth I have been enjoying RAW for the most part as of late. TNA I hope does better but Im not really a fan of their booking,how many face/heel turns can you have in a week,it doesn't make sense to have that many.

To be fair, TNA deals much moreso in shades of gray than they do traditional face/heel alliances. This has been their direction for over a year or so now, even with the seperate entrances they used to have for faces/heels.

A team like Beer Money, for example, hasn't really changed their attitude throughout their tenure, yet, sometimes they are booed, and sometimes not. And are booked accordingly with each fued. If you think about it, it is much more reality based than your traditional booking, albeit somewhat confusing.

Anyone who didn't see the Nash turn coming is either new to pro wrestling or a certified moron, so I don't think that is a good example either. And as far as I can remember, pretty much everyone else is still where they have been for a while.

I think TNA's main problem right now is visibility and a bloated roster. I could pare down about 5-10 folks right off the bat and have a much tighter show I think. But that is just me, I like to try and keep everyone involved in just about every show, so I enjoy working with a smallish roster.

"Samphin wrote:

To be fair, TNA deals much moreso in shades of gray than they do traditional face/heel alliances. This has been their direction for over a year or so now, even with the seperate entrances they used to have for faces/heels.

A team like Beer Money, for example, hasn't really changed their attitude throughout their tenure, yet, sometimes they are booed, and sometimes not. And are booked accordingly with each fued. If you think about it, it is much more reality based than your traditional booking, albeit somewhat confusing.

Anyone who didn't see the Nash turn coming is either new to pro wrestling or a certified moron, so I don't think that is a good example either. And as far as I can remember, pretty much everyone else is still where they have been for a while.

I think TNA's main problem right now is visibility and a bloated roster. I could pare down about 5-10 folks right off the bat and have a much tighter show I think. But that is just me, I like to try and keep everyone involved in just about every show, so I enjoy working with a smallish roster.

I guess,and yeah with Nash I saw that a mile away. By the way though good point on the roster,I think it is way too crowded,some people they should be featuring don't make it on the show. Another thing that bothers me is the Samoa Joe thing,think they would mention it or even in kayfabe bother looking for Joe haha.

"Samphin wrote:

To be fair, TNA deals much moreso in shades of gray than they do traditional face/heel alliances. This has been their direction for over a year or so now, even with the seperate entrances they used to have for faces/heels.

A team like Beer Money, for example, hasn't really changed their attitude throughout their tenure, yet, sometimes they are booed, and sometimes not. And are booked accordingly with each fued. If you think about it, it is much more reality based than your traditional booking, albeit somewhat confusing.

Anyone who didn't see the Nash turn coming is either new to pro wrestling or a certified moron, so I don't think that is a good example either. And as far as I can remember, pretty much everyone else is still where they have been for a while.

I think TNA's main problem right now is visibility and a bloated roster. I could pare down about 5-10 folks right off the bat and have a much tighter show I think. But that is just me, I like to try and keep everyone involved in just about every show, so I enjoy working with a smallish roster.

that's one thing i like a lot about tna. the characters feel more "real" (i can't believe i just said that). they are more accessible and don't feel like the polar extremes that are portrayed in the wwe.

Word is Goldberg and the WWE are close to signing one of those 'Legends' contracts which means Goldberg will make appearances for the WWE, while getting his likeness in future WWE video games, action figures and also getting into the HoF next year when WM is in his hometown of Atlanta, GA. He's not expected to wrestle any matches, but if he's booked right a Goldberg vs. Cena or Undertaker match at next WM would draw big time.

Since Wrestlemania is a few days away I figured we could predict the matches.

Or you can put down what you want to happen.

- HHH vs. Sheamus
I feel there is no way HHH loses on the big stage to the new guy, however it would be better for the future of both to have Sheamus win.

- CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio (If Rey Mysterio Loses, He Must Join The Straight Edge Society) I think Rey loses and then at some opportune moment down the road he will turn on the SES .

- Randy Orton vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Ted DiBiase
I think one of the two will turn on the other to show that he was with Orton all along. Orton and Cody beat up DiBiase and Rhodes lets Orton pin Ted.

- No Holds Barred Match: Bret Hart vs. Vince McMahon
Bret wins and everyone is happy

*10 Man Money In The Bank Ladder Match: Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Jack Swagger vs. MVP vs. Matt Hardy vs. Evan Bourne vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Kofi Kingston
Christion or McIntyre will win ....most likely McIntyre

- Unified Tag Team Title Match: The Miz and The Big Show © vs. John Morrison and R-Truth
I think there is no way the titles change with this weak match-up

- Career vs. Streak – Winner By Pin or Submission Only: Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker
The streak continues!

- WWE Title Match: Batista © vs. John Cena
Cena will get his revenge and title

- World Title Match: Chris Jericho © vs. Edge
Tough one to pick but I think Jericho keeps his title however if Edge wins with christian already the winner of MITB I expect an instant cash in.

Can't really argue against any of your picks. I would have said Kofi has a shot at winning the MitB match but for whatever reason he's been buried lately.

"Ray Finkle wrote:

Can't really argue against any of your picks. I would have said Kofi has a shot at winning the MitB match but for whatever reason he's been buried lately.

ever since that botch with orton