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Official Section126 Quarter Pole Evaluation

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Section126, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    You didn't expect to win that game, did you?

    I for one had it 34-24, but would not have been surprised if we lost by two TD's. Well..I was wrong. This was worse. This was not a two TD .."oh well" loss. This was a beatdown, but anyway..that's over now, so where are we?

    1) We have a good team.

    2) A team that is capable of beating anybody in the second tier of the AFC and that is ENOUGH for a playoff berth. Satisfied with that? You should be.

    3) Reshad Jones has been a disappointment. I told anybody that would listen that this guy is a budding star. Well, he had his worst game of the year vs. the Saints, and he has not been much better in the other games either. I really can't point to scheme as an excuse. He is playing BAD.

    4) Brent Grimes has been a revelation. Who woulda thunk it? A top performer..comes back from injury and is still a top performer? Good pickup Jeff. Now, do we keep him? I say we have to, if we are gonna have this many young guys in the secondary.

    5) We have the best Defensive Line in Football. All of them are good. All of them..including the bustout we got from the Giants. Marvin Austin did some *** kicking vs. the Saints. We may have lost 38-17...but he "won" by a few TD's. Maybe we got lucky?

    6) Speaking of the D-Line, Dion Jordan...has been everything we expected. He is well on his way to some rookie honors, but he needs a flashy sack total for the ROTY award. I think he gets it. 10 sacks is a realistic number IMO. He has to get going.

    7) Ryan Tannehill has no pocket awareness and he has bad feet as well. The good thing is that these things can be worked on and improved. His disconnect with Wallace is real. He either under throws him, or over throws him, but nothing is ever easy with those two. It really is strange, considering that they had at least 3,000 reps under their belts before they put on a uniform this year.

    8) The Offensive Line is putrid. I say can them all save for Richie and Pouncey. Martin continues to be awful in the sense that eh can have a good game..but he is also capable of a disaster game. We can't have those at LT. In fact, nobody can. Clabo has been the one bad signing. John Jerry is not long for this league and not much else has developed behind them. it's a shame if this is what keeps us from a Division crown.

    9) Lamar Miller is fine..till you ask him to pass block. Daniel Thomas is what he is. He is somebody we should be looking to replace next season. To do what he does..and do it BETTER, we could have explored the return of Ronnie Brown. In fact, he is exactly what we need behind Lamar Miller. A Solid pass catching / pass blocking vet RB. We will have that chance to add him this offseason. I say, do it unless you have better ideas.

    10) Charles Clay is the most improved player on the roster. He is actually vaulting himself into top 10 status as a TE (Yeah, the TE position is pretty putrid after you get past 6 names or so.) You can keep your Jermichael Finley's, I'll take a steady performer like Clay at his price tag. That is how you win. Really.....Graham, Gronk, Cameron, Witten, Gonzalez, Gates are clearly better..everybody else is just conversation. It's good to get lucky from time to time.

    Outlook....I really feel as if we need to be 6-2 at the halfway point to have a realistic shot at the Div., and the inside track for a wildcard. That is my expectation. So can we duplicate this 3-1 in our next 4? We shall see, but we need too.
     
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  2. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The next two games are critical. if we can beat both Baltimore and Buffalo at home, witht he bye in between, then we are set up nicely.

    5-1 going into NE, who will probably also be 5-1 on 10/27, will be the biggest test of the year. Far more important than last night.

    We need to just flush last night down the toilet and move on.
     
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  3. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    Last night was close until the turnovers happened. The fumble and first interception were on Tannehill. He needs to be more careful with the ball. That being said, he cannot do it alone and it appeared at times in the first half that the receivers were not at all focused. The pass to wallace where he quit running and it got picked off is on him. The final int happened because RT got hit as he threw so the ball fluttered up on him. Wallace needs to catch the damn ball. The O-Line needs to take some pride in keeping Tannehill's jersey clean and the Defense needs Wake back. Asap.

    Overall not a good game, but was bound to happen eventually. We are a good team, but not an elite one yet.
     
  4. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All solid points that I tend to agree with. I think it's worth noting that Wallace is just as much to blame about the disconnect with Tannehill. He dropped a catchable pass to him in the 1st QTR where he was unable to beat Allen. Yet, Tannehill threw it. Was Wallace hindered with a hand in face? Ya. But the ball was untouched and went through his hands. He had another ball that was tipped a little. Throws off your timing, but it should have been caught. The 2nd interception was a slant route that he stopped. Not sure if that was on Tannehill, but he expected Wallace to keep going. It looked as if Wallace just gave up on it.

    To me, Mike Wallace seemed to be completely disengaged once we got down. He was amped up to play in his hometown, didn't have the start he wanted and seemed to be a little disinterested. Sherman & Miami tried to get him involved early too. First play, throw to him. Second drive, deep ball to him that he drops.

    Sorry for the Mike Wallace rant. I didn't believe he was to blame at all 2 of the past 3 games. I didn't think Sherman did a great job to get him involved. In this game, there was clear intention to get him the ball, yet he still seemed to shut it down towards the end when it didn't go his way. He also failed to make plays he was paid to do. Every player has those games though. I hope the staff doesn't go away from him and continues to try and get him involved early.

    Last thing - RUN MILLER MORE!!
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'd hold off on the whole Charles Clay is a top 10 TE thing.

    And I continue to not agree with the conclusions that Ryan Tannehill had "bad feet" or "no pocket awareness", etc. I think he's certainly not up there with the best of them in that regard but he's nowhere near down there with the worst of them, either.

    It seems like people are willing to admit that the OL are terrible pass protectors but they don't necessarily have an appreciation for how that can make a quarterback look bad.

    Every single sack a quarterback takes, fans will always say he should have thrown the ball or moved out of the way. The quarterback is always the final determinant of whether a sack happens or not. But when you're dealing with more pressure and worse protection than all the other quarterbacks in the league, you're set up to fail.

    Other quarterbacks out there are REGULARLY allowed to hold the football a little longer at times because the coverage is tight, trusting that most of the time, the blocking is going to hold up for the extra time. They're on borrowed time and can't be surprised when they get sacked as a result, but it happens for every QB in the league. Ryan Tannehill is simply not allowed to do this. The blocks WILL NOT hold up.

    These guys are often running FREE into the backfield with full ability to mirror Tannehill whichever way he decides to scramble. And there's often a lot of MIDDLE pressure on top of it, which severely limits a quarterbacks ability to work the pocket by stepping up into it. Miami's weakest offensive lineman is John Jerry (and that's saying a lot). He's allowing pressure up the middle so why should it be such a surprise that Tannehill isn't able to work the pocket as often as people would like?

    I can still probably show people a dozen snaps where Tannehill stepped up and out of the grasp of outside pass rushers that were giving our tackles a hard time.

    The other thing is, Ryan Tannehill did not take a single sack in the first half, but then took four sacks in the second half when the team was down 28-10 or worse. What does that tell you?
     
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  6. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Phew. For a second I thought this would be one of Maynard's "pole evaluations", but then I saw that Sec started the thread. Let's talk Dolphins through 4 weeks.
     
  7. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    So we lost to the Saints. Big deal. Far more important of an evaluation is.. How do we respond vs Baltimore.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Agree abt the second tier of AFC teams.

    I think the OL needs to be shuffled, Clabo and Jerry are playing really poorly, to the point Garner makes more sense, heck, even Watkins makes more sense.

    Also have been telling anyone who will listen that Marcus Thigpen needs to be involved in the offense more, 1 touch, 50 yd play, no more touches.

    Disquieting fact is Tannehill is a turnover machine atm, not sure if it is poor OL play, or he is not ball aware, he needs to tighten that up.
     
  9. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I expected to be competitive. We were not.

    That is yet to be determined.

    I'm not satisfied of that and I am also not convinced of it yet. Get back with me about week 8.


    No, I don't think we do. They give up way too much yardage on the ground and get way too little pass rush pressure unless they're blitzing. They are overrated. Wake is a star, Solail is very good. The rest, nothing special.
     
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  10. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    well..I gave you 6, you got 4 more that are "clearly" better than Clay?

    On Tanny...you are probably right. The guy has to deal with these losers in front of him that can't block anybody. That can't breed confidence.

    and if Cleveland really wants to load up with 1st round picks.....I offer ours for Joe Thomas. Yeah..why not?
     
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  11. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Your evaluation of our D-Line could not be farther off.

    That game yesterday? We lost 38-17. Our D-Line? THEY WON. Odrick is a monster this year, Starks has ALWAYS been good... to great..and Jordan and Vernon are developing. I don;t know what you are watching with those guys.
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Didn't you hear? Sacks are the only measure of a d-lines effectiveness.
     
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  13. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I think this team is the type of team that will beat the avg and below avg teams but their flaws will be really really exposed against the good ones....

    that being said I love the direction....and for the first time in a long time I am happy.....

    I sit down with Soli and Grimes RIGHT NOW and try to hammer something out....
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Hah. Unfortunately I don't think Cleveland is selling Joe Thomas. He does also have a pretty big contract too so that's worth consideration.

    Among tight ends out in the league that I would take over Charles Clay includes...

    Jimmy Graham
    Rob Gronkowski
    Jordan Cameron
    Jason Witten
    Tony Gonzalez
    Antonio Gates
    Dwayne Allen
    Coby Fleener
    Julius Thomas
    Heath Miller
    Vernon Davis
    Greg Olsen
    Brent Celek
    Kyle Rudolph
    Martellus Bennett
    Brandon Pettigrew
    Jared Cook
    Owen Daniels

    I would also take young tight ends Tyler Eifert, Vance McDonald and Travis Kelce over Charles Clay, although it's understandable if folks do not believe they've proven themselves enough yet. That has to do with draft evaluation.

    Of course there's also Dustin Keller, not sure what to do there. Healthy you'd take him above Clay.

    I would keep in mind that when you really break it down, Charles Clay has had one great game, two bad ones, and really what I felt was a mediocre game last night. He got what had the look of a garbage touchdown last night as the Saints were up 35-10 and took their foot off the gas a little bit. He's not been a strong run blockers.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'd take Clay, simple fact is cost/performance in a salary cap world.

    D Allen is out for the year

    Nolan Carroll is easily the most frustrating player to watch on Defense, great one play, next he's giving up 6.

    Coyle has a Vet D to work with, to me, they should be even better than they have been so far.
     
  16. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    The Saints saw that we gave up on the run and pinned their ears back and went after the QB.
     
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  17. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Who's to say we haven't? I just don't think Cleveland would bite on that. If I were Cleveland, I sure wouldn't. Maybe for another player, but, not Thomas. Not for only one 1st-rounder.

    Ireland had multiple chances to upgrade the OL during the off-season (and the off-seasons before) and has so far failed to do it in a big way. Unfortunately, I think our OL is what it is. Terrible. Just like many of us here said it would be. So, here we are...
     
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  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, Clabo being bad was not forseeable, Jerry being bad is forseeable

    Do not know why they have not inserted Garner into the lineup at RG yet, to me the bye week would be a good time to make that change.
     
  19. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    After a decade of below average teams, 2013 seems to be the first real sign of trending upward. The 2008 team, while fun, wasn't built to last with the amount of older vets and a QB made of glass. We got beat. Badly. At their house, on Monday night football. For which they're 9-1 (7-0 at home), including 9 straight wins, since 2008, beating perennial contenders like Atlanta (3-0), Green Bay, New England, and NYG.

    Last night was tough to watch. However, there were times in the first half it looked like this Dolphins team did belong on the field with the Saints. Before Tannehill's fumble, it was 13-10 right before the half, with Miami driving around midfield. Obviously the turnovers, poor blocking, improbable 3rd and long victories for NO, kept adding up and we faded quickly. Jimmy Graham and Darren Sproles w/Drew Brees running the show... Those guys are on another level.


    The Dolphins are young. Plenty to be happy about 1/4 of the season through. I'm still excited about this team.



    Sad but true.


    Those quick passes from shotgun, in which he does not drop back, are unbelievably slow... He looks Byron Leftwhich slow. He obviously has a short release, but for some reason, he looks like he's playing knee high in pudding.

    And Mike Wallace has been scary bad. He had 3 drops in the Saints game, including a homerun while Miami was deep in their own territory. Ted Ginn has done more this season for Carolina than Wallace has for us. It's still early and things can change, but it's concerning. I miss Brandon Marshall.

    Another offensive line rebuild is in order. Outside of Pouncey and Cogs, I don't know if there's a keeper in the bunch.

    I've been a big supporter of Clay. Glad to see he's turning the corner. I still believe Charles Clay is better suited for an Aaron Hernandez type role, lining up everywhere, and being a mismatch machine. Although, I don't think we have a true #1 on the roster for Clay to compliment.
     
  20. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    There is only two things I am going to take from this **** show. We cant win with Jerry and Clabo on the right side. and Mike Wallace better step up, real, real quick, or there is going to be an uproar about him and that massive contract. Dropping the same amount of balls as you caught in a big Monday night game..pathetic.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I thought the OL was decent last night until the game got out of hand. Not great, but Tannehill had enough time to move the ball well in the first half. The second half was a disaster though.
     
  22. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I'm watching all the games, not just yesterday's. They've been unable to get consistent pressure on the QB without blitzing. They've done it once in a while, but usually they get handled. They had success stopping the run yesterday but not at all against Atlanta and inconsistently against Indianapolis.
    They show flashes of being elite, but for the most part they are not. They're overrated.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    There were two plays that really best exhibited how Ryan Tannehill and Mike Wallace were not on the same page.

    One play, Tannehill was blamed for throwing behind Mike Wallace. However the real problem (IMO) was that Wallace did not get his head around to look for the football in time. Had he done so, he would have been able to react better to where Tannehill was placing the ball. Wallace just sped through the route not looking for the football and by the time he saw the ball and reacted to it, it was already on him.

    The next play, Tannehill led Wallace because throttling him down on that first deep slant got him into trouble with the incomplete pass. But Wallace also adjusted, since Tannehill throttled him down on the first throw, he slowed up on the next one. The result was Tannehill leading Wallace too much, and this created an interception.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I did not think Randy Starks held his own very well last night. He was borderline bad. Derrick Shelby was as well. Dion Jordan was just sort of "there".

    Paul Soliai did well except for a few plays where you could tell he lacked the ability he has when healthy, and Jared Odrick was very good. Olivier Vernon had a nice sack. Marvin Austin did well for the time he played.
     
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  25. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Agreed, oline was fine until we went into pass only mode. Then the flood gates opened up.

    Which, IMO, is on Sherman. We completely stopped running the ball. I would have been happy with 1-2 more feel good tds in the game if they just ran their normal offense and went down field. Still would have lost but it wouldn't have gotten tannehill sacked so much and he probably doesn't throw those two picks either
     
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  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They were down 2+ scores, they had no choice but to pass. Only chance to win the game was to try and get some quick scores without running much clock.
     
  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    That play looked like Tannehill was expecting Wallace to sit on that route, not keep going. They absolutely lack chemistry together, and are not on the same page. Wallace's attitude and effort aren't helping, either.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think the fact that Tannehill didn't take a single sack until down 28-10 in the third quarter shows us quite a bit about the dynamic between Ryan Tannehill's sack tendencies versus the offensive line's blocking abilities.

    As soon as Miami was forced to deepen the depth of their focus trying to get what Sparano deemed "chunk yardage", the dam broke on the pass protection. You've got to hold onto the ball just a little bit longer for those deeper routes to come open but Miami's blockers are incapable of doing that. Tannehill was doing just fine against the occasional pressure when the play calling was on schedule.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    While that may be true, the biggest error on the route IMO was the fact that Wallace got his head around very late to look for the football. Even if they were not QUITE on the same page with respect to throttling him down or leading him, if Wallace had his head around looking for the football at the appropriate time that would have been a catch or a drop.

    I could be wrong and when I get home I'll look at the end zone view on the coaches tape to make sure, but I do not believe the ball was as off target as it was made to look by the fact that Wallace didn't see the ball until it was already on him.
     
  30. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Yeah, like on the last INT. We are nearly incapable of setting up a pocket for a long pass. I wonder if a solution would be to do what the Pats used to do with Brady where they would shift the whole pocket a few yards to either side to let him throw deep.
     
  31. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    mostly agreed Sect, nicely done. Although, if Reshad Jones has been bad (and I'm not disputing that) what in the heck has Chris Clemons been? The touchdown to Graham (the second one up the seam) he skated on the coverage. He brought back memories of Louis Oliver trying to cover one on one. (off topic sort of, I hate how our dbacks aren't coached to get jams at the line of scrimmage, you have to slow these tight ends down and disrupt their routes, we aren't doing that, and if we aren't getting quick pressure on the quarterback, we are getting burned on the back end). But Clemons is playing off, gets caught flat footed, expecting Graham to break off his route, gets caught looking at the quarterback, and the rest is history. Gruden says Brees moved Reshad Jones on that route, but lets not overlook the piss poor job Chris Clemons did in man to man coverage.

    I don't know, it just seems to me that because of the $ paid to Reshad, people are putting a higher emphasis on his play overall. Maybe that's the right thing to do, I don't know... but Chris Clemons has been a steaming pile of dog poo.. and he's playing for a contract this year. Looks like an easy decision to me.
     
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  32. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Last night Wallace fulfilled the way Steelers fans described him as they let him go. He had the same problems in 2012: inconsistent/imprecise route-running, shaky hands, no fight/toughness for the ball, disappears for stretches when a good corner matches up early. His production has been pathetic for the money we gave him. He needs to get his sh-t together fast.
     
  33. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, once they could ignore the run and just pin their ears back it got ugly. The other thing that really aggravated me was their 3rd down conversions. We couldn't even stop them on 3rd and long. Repeatedly.
     
  34. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That long ball dropped right through his hands. I would much rather have a receiver who has the attitude of owning the ball, where they go up and take the ball.
     
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  35. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    no i believe you are correct on that, Wallace on his break doesn't look back for the ball quick enough, he's looking at the safeties before looking for the ball. Is he scared of going across the middle? Tannehill threw that ball where it needed to be if Wallace looks for it when he should have.

    There is really no excuse for their timing differences at this stage, if that is what it is. And I'm not convinced it is.
     
  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Agreed, he definitely needed to get his head around. Thats more about effort/focus, which I think is something that could be corrected, hopefully. Unfortunately, chemistry is something that I don't think can come quickly.

    I don't think the ball was off-target at all. I think Tannehill put it where he wanted to put it.
     
  37. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    The 9 catch game that Wallace had were generally over the middle. He didn't seem to have problems in that game. Strange how suddenly he looks like he can't locate or suddenly pull up on a route beit poor communication or bad technique.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Sometimes that works out well and other times it just seems like it makes it easier on the defense because it cuts half of the field off.

    I'm certainly open to anything. The Dolphins offense should be more effective than it's been. They've scored 23, 24, 27 and 17 points and that's not bad, but it's not going to be good enough either since teams seem to be exposing more and more holes in the defense with each coming week.
     
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  39. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I gave you the big 6. The rest I feel is just conversation. Like Padre said...cost matters in this as well.
     
  40. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    They get consistent pressure without blitzing.

    Against Atlanta they were missing Solai and Wake. You miss half of the starting unit...it should suffer.

    They are no overrated. You are wrong about this.
     

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