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Discussion in 'College Sports' started by Motion, Dec 10, 2007.
Im telling Motion.
Oh wait he hates the Buckeyes
I am glad Tebow is okay. Him lying motionless on the ground scared the hell out of me.
if he has a concussion he is out for next weeks game (@lsu) no ?
Florida has a bye week next week.
Depends on the severity of the injury.
Hate to see a player get injured especially Tebow such a class act.
Tebow will be fine. He gets two weeks to get over this and I am sure it was just a concussion. Sucks that he hit that guys knee but the play should have never happend. Few plays before Florida had a TD called back on a bull**** holding call
He's being held overnight at the U of Kentucky Medical Center. They're saying it's a concussion for certain.
It was a bad hit made worse by the fact that the Lineman's knee snapped his head forward, hyper-extending his neck after the play was over, when he was relaxed.
Hope he's okay after this.
What did you bet and the Gators didn't cover spread?
Get well soon Tiimmy!
That was definitely a nasty hit/fall. Good timing for a bye week, the whole team needs a break.
Congrats to Andre Caldwell and Percy Harvin for another great weekend for Gator WRs in the NFL.
But how will he rebound? Thats the main concern, if he starts seeing jesus on the football field it wont matter how fine he thinks he feels
He'll be fine.
Why, is he looking in a mirror?
I fully expect the updates on Tebow to be few and far between the next two weeks and very vague if anything.
Meyer will want LSU to have to prepare for both Tebow and Brantley.
As long as jesus makes the catch. That's all that matters.
Tebow was fine as soon as they put him by a window in the hospital. He just needed the yellow sun to recharge!
Motion: totally agree, we will not hear a damn thing about Tebow until game day, IMO.
To be honest, I'm pretty confident we could beat LSU with Brantley anyway.
I think we definitely could. Just being a night game there makes me nervous.
31 game night home game winning streak is impressive, but it has to end sometime.
You'd better hope Tebow is back for that game because I don't think Florida wins it without him. Brantley is a good passer, but the guy is slow as hell. I remember watching him in clean-up duty last year and thinking on a particular play that it must have been blown dead because he was just standing still, not moving. But no, that's just him sitting there in the pocket.
Too each his own. I haven't really seen any game decided by Tebow's speed. Brantley is definitely not the runner Tebow is but thats what we have running backs for. I'm very confident we can beat them with Brantley, he is a great passer and our defense will step up as well.
Meyer: Tebow looks "terrific"
Brantley is good enough to beat LSU and he is a good athlete, not "slow as hell".....but alas Florida will beat LSU by 23 plus IMHO. LSU is terribly overrated...they tried their best to lose to Washington and Mississippi State (neither of which is particularly great.....) but could not find a way....they were ahead of that perennial powerhouse Vanderbilt by 7 late in Q3.....they have no defensive front 7 and no inside presence to control the spread, have no Oline, one injury prone and one lazy RB and a QB that cannot get some decent WR's the ball.....it will be close for a quarter because it is at LSU and at night....then it should go the way of a 38-13 game.............but I reserve the right to be wrong and the score be much worse for LSU than this if Tebow plays long or well.........IMHO
Hope you are right Ray... however, on the last prediction... (UT) you were a bit off. All good as long as we win, IMO.
LOL...yeah I was off "a bit"...but hey if Crompton throws 12-15 more times.....I still think UT is terrible and an 11 point win over Ohio does not exactly make me reevaluate my position. I am starting to think that there is no absolute dominant team this year although the Gators schedule is very friendly to their playing in a NC game and who in their right mind would bet against Tebow in one or two big games...not me. I rank the SEC like this right now: (and I KNOW I am hold a contrarian view, especially on LSU)
3) Ole Miss
5) South Carolina
7) Mississippi State
Wow, I not so sure I agree with that... I guess time will tell as more teams play each other.
Brantley getting ready
OK I will get a little more philosophical and deeper here than football.
First of all....No way Tebow does NOT play IMO.
But there is a bigger issue than football. All eyes are on everything Tebow does....rightfully so, the kid is probably the best ambassador for college football I have seen in my lifetime and a fantastic football player.....but why is the concussion issue that was so in the forefront 12 months ago suddenly not getting more play than the player?
We have our disagreements here, but I would say this whether it was 'my teams' guy Jacory Harris, Christian Ponder or Ball States 3rd string QB. Tim Tebow has way more to offer this world than anything he will ever do as a football player. We all have potential at something, whether we maximize that potential is up to the individual. Tim Tebow has potential to do pretty much anything he wants to he is that driven, that bright and that giving. The kid is going to fill his potential to the maximum in whatever he chooses. It is part of the reason IMO he WILL play against LSU. But the pressures to get on that field and help the team reach some goal on the field because of mostly money IMHO should not be a consideration when dealing with a kids health and the potential effect on their long term LIFE.
Studies indicate that kick returners and QB's are 3-4 times more likely to have concussions than other positions. It is also been documented that those suffering concussions are more likely to have a second concussion within 7-14 days than have an initial concussion by a factor of 600%. It is further documented that second concussions have longer and more chronic effects than initial concussions.
I googled a couple good articles:
This is not a football post. Many of us saw the HBO and Real sports blurbs on concussions.....these are REAL people facing REAL LIFE issues because of concussions and football is just a game ultimately. The NCAA, Tim Tebow and everyone that has a damn TV sees Tebow as a role model and puts him up as one...and as I said rightfully so. The kid is a warrior and will do something not in his best interests in order to sacrifice and help his team....admirable in life, stupid as it relates to football. IMHO there is NO WAY that he should play, I prefer to have Tim Tebow walking this planet as a fully functioning person more than having Tim Tebow walking the planet as a football player.
I do not want to see kids that come back and get multiple concussions walking around drooling, crapping on themselves, showering with their clothes on and not knowing it, and eating with straws at age 30 because of the game of football and the short term gain they may seek by 'helping their team'. The dangers are too documented and the risks too great.
Again this is not anti Florida or anti Tebow as I am sure at least one will suggest...quite the opposite. The kid is a great kid, player and a warrior. There should be some strong rules in effect that take the decision out of the schools and players hands when it comes to concussions and issues that will effect their lives long term.....no one will remember who won the 2009 LSU/Florida game in 10 years but Tim Tebow has the potential to do things that positively effect my kids kids....and football just does not measure up to that.
I sincerely hope that Tim Tebow is strong enough as a person and be the role model everyone has made him, to stand up and say this is wrong, it is my life, I can positively effect lives much more than by playing football so soon after this concussion....will that happen...I doubt it. Is it Tim Tebow's "fault...I do not think so, he probably sees himself as invincible and football as more important than his lifes potential right now, lets not forget the kid is what ...21 or so. We as fans, especially Gator fans want Tebow to play and really do not give two hoots about the sacrifices he just may make in order to win a damn game...that is just wrong in my book. WE are the ones using this kids desire for our own enjoyment and one day of football as entertainment....IMHO...............
Great post, couldn't agree more.
Even if it meant losing the game, which I don't think will happen because I have the utmost confidence in the "team", I would be completely in favor of sitting him if it was best for his long term health. As you said this guy's reach and influence go much further than the football field. He has far too much to offer this world to risk it playing a game before he is absolutely 110% healthy, or at all for that matter.
I agree with both of you as well. LOVE Tebow. However, love him as he is... if he gets more concussions or any other head injury he could end up as a vegetable.
I HOPE the doctors keep that in mind when evaluating him. I know that the severity of the concussion really determines how long to keep him out. That being said, I have not heard if he is still having "headaches" or other symptoms. I know he was having them for 3 days. Which is a little scary, however the more I read somewhat normal. It becomes abnormal and much more dangerous for the individual if the symptoms continue for a week after the concussion.
I just hope the whole medical and coaching staffs remember this is just a kid (or young man) that has his whole life ahead of him. Not to jeopardize that.
My understanding is that the current belief regarding concussions is that a player is okay to play once he has been asymptomatic for 7 consecutive days. This is made easier to detect if the doctors have a baseline for the player taken before the concussion. The Gators are ahead of most programs and I believe most NFL teams too in that they have baseline readings for every player. This should make it fairly easy for the doctors to determine if Tebow has been asymptomatic for 7 days. And the reports out of Gainesville are that Meyer has been deferring to the doctors on whether Tebow plays. While that doesn't mean there isn't any internal pressure on the doctors to clear Tebow it is possible that the doctors and the doctors alone are making the call here. BTW I don't say that its possible due to any great belief in humanity but rather due to my belief in school's the fear of liability.
I do not know if you have had a concussion or not but I have and you can be asymptomatic and still be in an absolute fog......I am also hypersensitive to meds and it felt like I had way to much allergy medicine in me...just a fog. The 7 day issue may be someones recommendation but if it is then it is BS for football players......maybe 7 days asymptomatic to drive a car but I will guarantee you that many, me included can be asymptomatic for 7 straight days and still absolutely be still effected by concussion...maybe just not falling down, puking or pulling my hair out because of headache.
If that is the recommendation then it is a $hitty recommendation and is playing with kids lives.
Ahhhhhhh I found the reference you were talking about Rafy. It is an 11 year old standard....if you have symptoms lasting longer than 15 minuets then you should be a symptomatic for 7 straight days before participating in activities. However today the Academy of Neurology is refuting that data and has said new evidence suggest that rule of thumb is no longer accurate and further research needs to be done..........now that is no great shakes except for the fact the standard set 11 years ago was THEIR standard...so they are suggesting doing away with some rule of thumb they came up with........and no one seems to be taking notice...or care.
This is why I get frustrated with sports and the money involvement and control in/over sports and t trickles down to kids playing the game in the spirit of the game....I lived it years ago and it has only gotten worse. Try googling and reading some of the articles about these kids that return to soon like Jaquan Walker. What happens if Tebow goes out and plays, gets another head injury and dies......then all of a sudden this is an issue again....why this is being ignored is beyond belief....
I believe in protecting those that cannot protect themselves......these kids or men for that matter are not making decisions based on known effects or variables....and the kids are not capable of making that judgment in the first place......instead of demanding protection for quality kids we use their desires to further our entertainment...........might as well be dog fighting and **** fighting in the name of school colors.........
Try looking at these links....
"More than 130,000 young people suffer concussions while playing sports every year. 45% return too early after a concussion.'
"Athletics are second only to car crashes as the leading cause of brain injury for 15 to 24-year-olds. "
McKee, who also studies Alzheimer's disease, says the tangles closely resemble what might be found in the brain of an 80-year-old with dementia.
"I knew what traumatic brain disease looked like in the very end stages, in the most severe cases," said McKee. "To see the kind of changes we're seeing in 45-year-olds is basically unheard of."
The damage affects the parts of the brain that control emotion, rage, hypersexuality, even breathing, and recent studies find that CTE is a progressive disease that eventually kills brain cells.
But today, using tissue from retired NFL athletes culled posthumously, the Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy (CSTE), at the Boston University School of Medicine, is shedding light on what concussions look like in the brain. The findings are stunning. Far from innocuous, invisible injuries, concussions confer tremendous brain damage.
I have had a concussion and I would consider feeling like I'm in a fog to be a symptom. I would think that all the testing that Tebow is going through would detect that as well as any other symptoms. The reports out of Gainesville that have mentioned his tests include questioning, balance tests and brain imaging, among others. If they have 7 days of negative tests using that battery, I have no doubt that any medical facility would clear him.
And I know 11 years sounds old but I don't find that medical practices change that fast. Unless there is some break through, that is probably the standard every doctor in the country is using. And I'm not arguing that there doesn't need to be improvements. I'm just not sure that its fair to blame the schools or money here. If the school is relying on the medical community and the Gators seem to be as cutting edge and proactive as any organization I've heard of in regards to concussions I don't see how they could be blamed for anything.
Rafy...I am really not blaming anyone in particular (money ... yes), and certainly not UF, Shands, or anyone else other than the NCAA as an institution, and definitely not you for a good informative post...venting mostly because no one will do something and kids are the ones getting screwed.....AGAIN.
I really do not know what the results are, I do not know the injury and I am no doctor so for me to Blame anyone for this particular instance (Tebow) would be stupid on my part....I am more venting and blaming the system, the acknowledgment by the NCAA of the problem and the effort to address the problem (which is none).....So I am really not that interested in debating the particulars of this situation other than how it relates to the whole of the situation.....and honestly this situation has not played out yet anyway.
I totally disagree that 11 years as it relates to the breakthroughs, studies and work that has advanced the awareness and understanding of concussions and brain trauma is not "old" and outdated. It is IMHO.
The 7 day recommendation was given by the Neurology Association and they themselves are now advocating a longer time frame and significant additional research. They themselves cannot now get doctors, HSAA's, the NCAA, and National Athletic Trainer Associations to offer different standards on their own research that they now say is possibly flawed and at the very least they themselves say is outdated............boggles the mind.......
The leading research at BU did not even start until 4-5 years ago and has made huge strides. All you have to do is really read and understand the things we did not know even 5 years ago about the damage to the brain at a very early age when concussions happen and ESPECIALLY multiple concussions....some of which we now know lead to sudden respiratory failure caused by brain swelling. HELL they had not even looked at a brain with this type study in mind until 5 years ago.......11 year old data is ancient IMO.
Again I am not "arguing" or debating this particular situation (Tebow) but rather the situation as a whole (kids dying and reduce brain function at an early age). Whether Tebow plays or does not play, and I hope for his healths sake he does not we still have a problem that kids die from multiple concussions too close together, and brain function at reduced capacities at an early age.
Anyone that knows me from POFO will tell you I am an individual choice type guy....grown men ...IF they have the accurate information available...can decide if they want to trade having scrambled eggs for brains at age 35 for a Super bowl ring...........kids at 16, 17 or 22 should not be making that decision and the certainly do not have the information to make that decision right now.
If you think this is not about money, then you are IMHO are most mistaken. ESPN/NCAA/ and anyone that shares in the network pie, has an interest on making the games as compelling and entertaining as they can. Can you honestly say there is not pressure create by those entities to win and to have their best players on the field? Their interest is so they can win and have people watch and create such an advanced self worth that they will buy a purple and orange # 102 jersey with the NCAA logo and Fighting Purple Yogurt slinger's logo for $99.95 at the local Screw me sporting goodstore and pay $299 for the privilege of seeing the Fighting Slingers spank the Monkees on the road on Dish network? The NCAA has never cared about the kids, and never will. It is about money. If you think otherwise you are certainly entitled too but I am of the strong opinion you are living somewhere on Fantasyland Avenue where it rains lollipops and BJ's, if you do.
So at the end of the day I am not blaming anyone other than us (US fans) for allowing kids to die and be brain farts at an early age so we can support the fighting Slinger's while sighting some outdated facts and studies so we can feel better about ourselves, while we sit and eat Cheetoes and tofu burgers on our beanbags with the slinger logo all Day on Fall Saturdays........................yep I mean me too.....
The reason I don't think 11 years is that long in medical terms is that if you look at timelines for changes in medical thinking you're usually talking 30 - 50 years. That's from when someone makes a break-through to the point where the first drug implementing that breakthrough is used.
In the case of concussions, there will probably be at least 10 years of study before any conclusions and new recommendations are drawn. If the leading research started 4 - 5 years ago (and I believe your timeline is accurate) then it will be t least another 5 - 6 years before they start telling any new guidelines to the medical community. And then there will be a few years before those guidelines become widespread assuming they aren't challenged.
As for the money thing, I don't doubt that it's a motivator, but I do think the school, any school, has a ton to lose from pressuring the medical staffs. In the past we know this happened but over the last few years there has been a ton of press regarding the dangers of concussions. I think there's been enough that info out there regarding the dangers that a school would have to be stupid to pressure a medical staff into playing a concussed player prematurely. I think this is especially true at the big institutions. How big do you think the lawsuit would be if UF pressured the medical staff and Tebow became a vegetable? How much more would UF lose in reputation, donations and recruiting if they were even implicated in such a lawsuit? So while I agree that money is a motivator, the threat of losing money is also a motivator that insulates the medical staffs from influence as well.
Brantley likely to start, even if Tebow cleared
Smokescreen? Or do we really start Brantley over Tim (if cleared).
Don't get me wrong, I like Brantley. Just a tall order to start your first college game on the road at night in LSU.
I'm still waiting for something official, whether we get that or not who knows, but I hope they do whatever is best for his long term health. I have alot of confidence in Brantley. Look at it this way, if this is his first start everything else should be much easier. I'd love to see them come out under center and throw a PA bomb first play of the game if Brantley does start.