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***Official Dolphins vs. Cowboys Hall of Fame Game thread***

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rocky Raccoon, Aug 4, 2013.

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  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    fixed
     
  2. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    And Dan Marino was a great QB - I have you pegged. I'm done with you. Go blindly on your way.
     
  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This really shouldn't be controversial. Just figure out his BMI.

    Sent from my HTC One GE using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
  4. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow. Bold prediction, the running back will get injured or dinged up sometime during the year. No one is saying he's going to be as great as those runners, but to bring up his size as a durability concern is just dumb, especially when we have given you past and present examples of tailbacks that have had reasonable success at lower weights and heights. This isn't a video game, Miller doesn't have to be cornered into a running style like "Power" and "Speed". While he may have a penchant for one attribute or the other (speed, in your opinion), don't completely write off the fact that he could incorporate either facet at any time if he improves as a player. He has yet to prove it on an NFL level, yeah, but there's nothing extraordinary about his size. We are giving you objective data and you are just plain ignoring it, so don't complain when it disproves your arguments.
     
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  5. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Are you trying to say Dan Marino wasn't a great QB?!
     
  6. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    With this group - I won't even go there.

    Ok, I will, I have to. Dan Marino was a great passer, one of the best that ever played. He sucked at playing QB.

    There I said it.
     
  7. NolePhin15

    NolePhin15 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is saying this. They are simply saying that his size does not classify him as small. You have been factually wrong in almost every post in this thread.
     
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  8. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I knew that was coming. It is what it is.
     
  9. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "The facts! You're ignoring the facts!

    FACTS!!!"

    *doesn't post any facts*

     
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  10. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Serious question, did Charles Clay play at all last night? Rodriguez looked pretty decent at H-Back on a few plays there
     
  11. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    He is small. I don't care how you want to classify him.
     
  12. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Dan Marino was a phenomenal QB, you don't know football
     
  13. NolePhin15

    NolePhin15 Well-Known Member

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    Jupiter
    Please back that up with facts.
     
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  14. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually, man, it's the other way around. Nobody cares how YOU want to classify him, because you obviously have a very vague and abstract way of classifying things.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    If you say so - the fact that he hopped stepped out of center on every running play he ever ran effectively telegraphing the play, or that his mobility was zero, or that he had ZERO play-action fake, or that he lost more big games than he won, that he never won a superbowl, that his career QB rating was worse than guys like Jeff Garcia, Chad Pennington, and Daunte Culpepper.

    Dan Marino had more talent than any guy that ever played, he could throw the ball better than any guy that ever played, if he had ANY of the other intangibles needed to play the position of QB, he would have multiple rings. He had his chances.

    Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner - Great QB's. Dan Marino - Great Passer.

    Sorry.
     
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    The notion that Miller is small is about as dumb as saying Brady isn't big enough to play QB.
     
  17. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Can we not make this thread about whether Canton-enshrined Marino was a great QB please?
     
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  18. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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  19. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    This is a little late, and I'll probably regret writing this... and will be flamed from every side, but I think it might be useful to step back and look at 72 Dolphins' original statement.

    72 Dolphins was actually rebuking White Ibanez' argument about Lamar being over-rated, and that part I kind of agree with. While I do think starting a rebuttal with "You couldn't be more wrong..." is a little incendiary and probably not a great way to start a dialogue when one is new to the board, it wasn't like he was stating Lamar Miller was bad. He just questioned his durability, which -- as has been pointed out -- may not really be something to worry about. Everything else just seems to be nit-picking on whether Lamar Miller is a "big" enough back. 72 Dolphins has an opinion that Miller might not be up for the pounding. Most of us think otherwise. But really it's all noise and could be laid to rest.

    One last thing, though, is that another jab at the GM, something you've done in previous posts, is another thing that isn't going to go over well when you're new to the board (or even when you've been here a while). You mentioned that the board frowned on objective analysis, but really the opposite is true. If you started with your original opinion that Lamar Miller was a STUD but that you questioned his durability... and here's why (x,y, z, blah, blah, blah)... you'd probably get a much better reception, although people who disagree are still going to debate you with their own facts. Others will agree with you and add their own facts.

    A lot of it really is in the presentation.
     
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  20. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And off-the-cuff, I'm going to guess most of those guys had a shorter starting career than Marino.
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He weighs the same as Adrian Peterson. Do you consider AP small?
     
  22. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Thank You. Sincerely, I will try harder on my presentation. I guess it comes from 30 years of fan-atics all around me. I love the Dolphins - I want to see them win another Super Bowl as much as any of you here. That being said, I can't ignore the obvious, simply because I'm a fan. IF Lamar Miller can handle the NFL load (I have my doubts), he will be a top end RB.

    He is not a power back, he is NOT big. To list his height and weight and claim that proves he's big is ignorance. On that logic, Manute Bol was big. Muscle Mass, Thighs, Chest, Power is big in the NFL, not your height and your weight. Lamar Miller is a speed back. It is that simple.
     
  23. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Okay, but the original argument was about durability.
     
  24. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Yes, I was only saying, that more Big backs last in the NFL than speed backs. Earl Campbells, Jim Browns, Emmit Smiths, Walter Paytons of the world. Even Thurmon Thomas and LT had bigger thighs and body mass than Miller.

    It has been done however and I hope for the best, Marshall Faulk parlayed a small frame into a great career, Chris Johnson is doing it now. These guys never ran over anyone, and neither will Miller but they were great backs.

    By this crowds standard Barry Sanders was small because height and weight are facts. Barry Sanders had thighs like freight trains.

    Ray Rice, small? Another guy with thighs and mass who runs like a bowling ball. You will never use the term bowling ball with Miller.

    It is what it is - Lamar Miller is small for the NFL. I worry - You should also.
     
  25. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Nonsense.

    Emmitt Smith was nowhere near a "big back" and Walter Payton? LOL! He barely weighed 200 pounds. You are confusing a physical style with a slippery style..and the slippery kind obviously last longer. So you are wrong yet again.

    This is some type of record.
     
  26. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Here are the "skinny" thighs of Lamar Miller:

    [​IMG]
     
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  27. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    Okay, he's not a power back, but he's plenty big enough to be durable. Some guys have already noted some heights and weights, but here are a few more from ProFootballReference.Com:

    Walter Payton 5'10", 200
    Emmitt Smith 5' 9", 210
    Barry Sanders 5'8", 203
    CJ Spiller 5'11", 194
    Marshall Faulk 5'10", 211
    Reggie Bush 6'0", 200
    Curtis Martin 5'10", 211

    None of those guys would I necessarily call "power" backs. I think Bush and CJ Spiller they're now calling "air" backs, and maybe Miller would fit in there, but he weighs a little more and is built a little more solid than those guys.

    I'm in no way comparing the quality of play of Miller with any of these backs, but just looking at the heights and weights of some of the all-timers mixed with some of today's breed of runner, most of these guys were very durable, and I don't know why you'd be predisposed to thinking that Lamar Miller would be more injury-prone or less durable than any of these guys. A guy like Adrian Peterson, who had injuries in college, would seem like a safer bet (to be injured more frequently), but even he's been pretty durable. Ad of course, we had a real solidly built guy (in my avatar), Ronnie Brown, who was a power back, but he was injured more than any of the guys I listed. So being a power back doesn't necessarily mean injury-free and durable. Heck, Earl Campbell left football early because of bad knees.
     
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  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Looks like those thighs are going to break in half
     
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  29. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's really come to this.

    Thigh circumference.
     
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  30. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Anyone with speed and elusiveness must be small. No need to check their weight. Its a classification rule.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe this guy thinks that he's not durable, therefore calling him small..

    Just say in your opinion he's fragile or not durable, noone would of said sh&$ to you.
     
  32. Cpt T Kirk

    Cpt T Kirk New Member

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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do you also think Dion Jordan will lack strength because of his length?
     
  34. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'd like to think I fall into that category, but who knows. I admit, its refreshing to have someone speak their mind against the current.

    But I dont think the evidence you used did your credibility any favors.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the sense you dont think Lamar Miller runs with the sturdiness, power and resiliency of other backs, despite his physical stature being similar.

    Seems like its his style that concerns you as much as his actual weight.

    (Btw, why antagonize people w the Marino stuff? It only makes for the argument that you are indeed trolling them to annoy them)

    Personally I love Marino, but he sure wasnt perfect.
     
  35. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    No, I don't know if he is durable or not. We will see.

    I'm simply saying if he can handle the NFL load he will be great. That and that he is a speed back, we won't be in awe of him running over linebackers because he won't.

    Aparentely because I bleed Aqua and Orange there should be no doubt in my mind that he can handle 250 NFL carries. It's one of many question marks that this season will reveal.
     
  36. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    I think what we need is another practice.

    These days off... whew...
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Apparently you should of said that he isn't a power back and left it at that..are you saying when you said "he's not big" you were speaking to us in metaphors?
     
  38. Patssuck

    Patssuck Well-Known Member

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    Marino didn't win anything because he defense couldn't stop anyone either. To point at Marino and say " he never won anything." without looking at the team around him is ridiculous.
     
  39. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I'm not trolling. I'll cash out on Marino. Greatest Passing skills ever to play the game and a joy to watch. I attended every home game he played for the Miami Dolphins, including the Super Bowl in Stanford Stadium (The worst venue ever for a superbowl BTW - Wood Splinter seats with no backs except for the knees of the people in the row behind you.) I enjoyed his career, especially moments like Monday Night at home versus the 85 Bears effectively perserving the undefeated season. Probably the single most greatest game of Marino's career. It's a shame he couldn't beat New England in that AFC Championship game in 85 as a double digit favorite to set up the rematch the entire country wanted to see. Instead we were delivered arguably the single worst Super Bowl *** whipping in Superbowl History as the Bears went on to dismantle the Patriots.

    Best passer to play the game - not a great QB. Good Ok - great No.

    I knew then and I know now, Marino is untouchable, I will drop the argument.
     
  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hate to say this, but I kind of agree with this dude. I love Marino. Favorite player of all time. Best pure passer ever. But was he the best QB? Not quite. I truly believe Marino had a lot more potential, to be even better than he was. He coasted on his physical ability and natural instincts. But he was not a student of the game as Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are. He was known for sleeping in meetings, telling his coach he just finds the open guy and lets it rip.

    His natural ability and instinct are so good, that he's one of the best, ever. But he could have been even better.
     
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