***Official 2012-13 MLB HOTSTOVE OFF-SEASON THREAD***

@mlbtraderumors: Orioles Targeting Josh Hamilton & Cody Ross http://t.co/vGaGY9tX #mlb

 

@mlbtraderumors: D'Backs In "Active Discussions" About Justin Upton http://t.co/hUEzvcl5 #mlb

 

Dan Haren would look great in a Pirates uniform...

 

Congrats to the Blue Jays for the 1st bad contract given out of the 2012/2013 offseason. Really 3 years for 31 year old back up infielder whose OBP (.320) was higher than his SLG?

 

and cue the Walter White jokes being made for his years in Colorado.

 

At least Weiss was managing last year.... even if it was high school baseball. The team obviously has a lot of fatih in him giving him a 1 year deal and all.

 

He left on his own because he wanted to be closer to his family which lives near or in LA.

 

2PM today is the deadline for players to accept or decline qualifying offers....

 

None will, in my opinion of course.

 

Win win for NY even on Kuroda....having a 1st and 3 compensatory picks at the end of the first round works for me.....

Then again with Oppenheimer in charge of scouting you might as well let my daughter make the picks instead...

 

I forget how it works but if the bottom 10 teams sign one of them the Yankees dont get a pick?

 

Not sure what to make of the Dodgers. They're either going to be the most hated team in baseball or they're going to be an epic failure with the owners selling the team in 5 or 6 years as they won't be able to pay all of their salaries.

 

Yea I don't get what their doing. It's like they all sat in a room and when trying to come up with a plan to win, some guy stood up and said "let's just spend a ton of money all over the place". And everyone applauded him.

 

They apparently don't feel that the luxury tax is a big deal and "think" the best way to win is to spend money. Doesn't help that they also have Ned Coletti as the GM either. But I'm sure smart front offices in baseball are sitting back, watching what they're doing and just laughing.

Or they're simply clueless, it's almost like the owners have played non-keeper fantasy baseball their whole lives and think getting the big name guys no matter what the cost will equal winning.

 

Lol. The salaries are a drop in the bucket. They will NEVER have issues with paying the players' salaries. And the new television deal that they are about to land will pay for all of the absorbed contracts...in the first season.

The Dodgers are a crown jewel of baseball, along with the other, obvious teams. They were treated like a dirty diaper for years under McCourt. So bad in fact, that Bud Selig actually was motivated to step in and intervene. Do you know how rare that is? And how bad the situation for L.A. was?

The money is necessary to spend. MLB as a whole, saw attendance go down in 2011. If you take the Dodgers numbers out of that equation, then MLB actually went up. That is how bad, and how influential the Dodgers are. They need something to bring the fans back. Having Magic Johnson be the face of the ownership group, bringing in name talent, regardless of the contracts, renovating or perhaps building a new stadium. All crucial moves to not only bring back the fans, but to wrestle away market share from the Angels and restore a once proud franchise. Especially since our biggest rival just won the World Series...again.

People always look at the contracts they brought in last year, and yes,it was a lot of money, but everyone is off the books in a few years and essentially, they did their positional free agent shopping during the season as opposed to now. They have their first basemen, a starting pitcher, corner outfielder and utility man checked off now. At this point. It would surprise me if they made another huge splash outside of the pitching realm.

They also have Stan Kasten running the show. Which means that whatever they are paying now, is probably nothing on what they will be doing to build up their farm and development system long term. Kasten knows how to build baseball teams.

And Coletti isn't terrible. He has picked up some nice arms off the scrap heap over the years. And while the positional free agents have been questionable, the majority of those guys either came at a severe discount, or it was mandated by McCourt to go get them. Now that that is behind him, I am interested to see what he can do. So far, I have no complaints.

 

MLB has a new collective bargaining agreement in place now that penalizes teams for spending X amount for X years, something the Dodgers will easier surpass if they continue this spending spree. The penalties are so serve that teams like the Red Sox and Yankees have started to scale back on their team's payrolls to avoid paying them.

I get that the Dodger situation under McCourt was a huge black eye on the franchise and area, however that still doesn't justify what the Dodgers are doing which is overpaying for players (not named Matt Kemp) for more money then they are worth and that are on the decline. The fact that the Dodgers will be paying 4 players (Gonzalez, Crawford, Ethier & Kemp) over 70 million dollars combined for the next 6 years is insane especially when you consider 3 out of the 4 are over 30 now, while Kemp will be in another year. It's just spending for the hell of it and not doing it wisely. The new owners are certainly making a splash, I just think they're simply going to sink.

And yes Coletti is terrible and has a long track record of poor trades and bad free agent signings. And I wouldn't feel comfortable with Kasten either if he was the one to sign off on taking on a quarter of a billion dollars in player salaries AND giving up prospects for it. It's a type of move like that that could set the franchise back for years.

But I guess we'll see like I said this is going to either really bring the franchise back into the spotlight or be an epic failure. The problem is you're looking at it in terms of just this season and next, I'm looking at it in year 2015 and beyond when you have all that dead weight on the roster and won't be able to move them.

If you're happy with the moves, so be it as you're a fan of the team. But as an outsider I just don't agree with the approach the Dodgers are taking to try and rebuild the franchise. I just think it's the wrong way to go about it and will be met with a lot of regret later on.

 

Strange did the Yankees have the second highest bid on Dice-k. Darvish and Cespedes?

 

Its going to be interesting to see if anyone complains about the Dodgers raising the market on players and hurting small market teams like people have been complaining about the Yankees for years.

Good luck keeping Kershaw happy.

 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tBbMgiEHXYczpjt0I7dajQQ&output=html

142 million pre Arb and options and that is without singing a single FA. Kershaw is going to get 12-13 million in arb so figure about 154 million.

 

It's almost insane that they already have 89.9 million committed for 2017. How good do you think a 35 year old Crawford, 35 year old Gonzalez and 35 year old Ethier will be?

 

Holy bleep.

 

Yes, holy bleep is right. The years and dollars committed to these players, so far, is just stupid. Like LiferYank said that's not even factoring in other players like Kershaw that must likely will be extended.

 

Kershaw is under control for two more years if I am not mistaken. He is the face of the franchise along with Kemp. He is going no where. He will get his money, you all will complain and he will continue to be the best pitcher in the NL.

I look at this from the business standpoint. Thea Dodgers HAD to do this. I saw a guy in Northern California the other day wearing an A-Gon Dodgers jersey. His reason? A Mexican American playing for HIS team. A-Gon is worth his contract for who he identifies with. It's not the albatross everyone thinks it is. Crawford's contract had to be absorbed to get where they wanted to go with Adrian and Beckett. Admittedly, they could do without him, especially if Yaisel Puig turns out tone the stud they think he is.

But ownership has already stated that the new luxury taxes don't bother them. At least for now. They are investing heavily to get the fans back. At that point, it will be up to them to put the right product on the field to keep them there.

And L.A. Really didn't give up much in terms of prosper for these trades. They still have Puig and they still have Zachary Lee. Everyone else in their minor league system is pretty much expendable. Hence my earlier comments about their efforts to rebuild that as well.

I am not saying that they are perfect, I am just saying, that in my opinion, given how far this franchise fell, they are doing the right thing to change public perception. At some point, they will have to win and at least get to the playoffs. Otherwise it will be considered a failure.

 

It's been proven numerous times that unless you have a once in a lifetime superduperstar (like Barry Bonds for example) one player does not bring people to the ball park. Heck Adrian Gonzalez was a hometown hero in San Diego, another big Mexican population, and the attendance once he left didn't reflect he was a draw to the park. Winning brings fans to the park not players.

Look everyone knows how bad things were for the Dodgers when McCourt was the owner. People just don't agree with the way they're going about doing it. It's stupid and silly, even if the owners don't care about the luxury tax or whatever. They currently have $623 million dollars on the books for 39 player seasons for the next 7 years. It's once thing to make an immediate splash but what's going to happen if all those big ticket players they brought in go south and the team is stuck with them on the decline having no way of moving them?

To me what they're doing is putting a band aid on a bullet wound. Sure short term it will stop the bleeding but then what? Maybe it's just me but I feel like they're sacrificing the long term health of the franchise for a short term (2 or 3 year) non-guaranteed return.

We're just going to have to sit back and watch and see what happens, if they win a WS or two in the next few years then it will be all worth it. If not, it will be a huge mistake. I'm not surprised that most Dodger fans think the new ownership is doing well as most fans only look year to year and don't look at long term plans or 2 or 3 years into the future. The Dodgers are a win now team, if they don't win they're going to look like a failure like you said.

And you didn't give up any prospects for the Punto Deal? The fact that the Dodgers gave up any players and took on those salaries is just beyond dumb but Webster and De La Rosa are pretty good prospects, Sands and DeJesus not so much. Webster and De La Rosa are legit, De La Rosa probably could have been in the 2013 Dodger rotation if he wasn't traded. And the problem with Puig is besides from the fact he's only played 23 pro games is where is he going to play? You have the OF locked up until 2017 at the earliest unless the Dodgers are planning on releasing or benching someone that's making over 20 million in the case of Crawford and Kemp or over 17 million in the case of Ethier. Hence another reason why this spending spree is foolish. Although I guess Puig can be either Crawford's or Ethier's platoon partner since he bats right handed.

 

A-Gone IS worth his contract. Beckett and Crawford are not. And the three are tied together because the Dodgers had to take Beckett and Crawford to get A-Gone. Its not the worst trade ever but it reminds me of a pre-Madoff move the Mets would make.

 

On another note, Mets fielding offers for possible Cy Young winner RA Dickey (his value will never be higher). The Mets are also looking to give Wright 6/110M while hes supposedly asking 7/130. They arent so far apart that a deal shouldnt be struck. If its not the Mets better max out value on both these guys in trades

 

Dickey would be a nice pick up as guys who win games, and eat innings are just rare in MLB today

 

A 30 year old 1st baseman that hit .297/.344/.441/.785 with 18 home runs isn't worth 21 million, those are good numbers but not superstar ones. I think Gonzalez bounces back and has a few more good seasons however there are some red flags with Gonzalez moving forward, especially in the power department which was a big concern with the Red Sox. If he doesn't return to hitting 30+ HRs a year, he's an overpay.

It's not the worst trade ever, however it could possibly end up being one of the worst when you factor in the amount of money that was taken in and how the prospects the Dodgers gave up perform. If Gonzalez and Crawford are busts it's a brutal trade. But we're years away from determining that.

 

And I contend that you have no clue how bad it was for the Dodgers. Absolutely no idea how bad they were in debt, how badly McCourt leveraged the team and how convoluted he set up his ownership as to make it virtually impossible for anyone to purchase it. Again, it took BUD SELIG AND MLB to step in and say enough, in order to cease a light at the end of the tunnel if they hadn't done that, The Dodgers wouldn't exist today. Let that sink in.

One of the top five marquee franchises in baseball wold not be around today. And none of that is hyperbole. McCourt couldn't pay the players and was leveraging the team to fight his stupid wife in court in what is California's most expensive divorce ever.

And San Diego is not L.A. The majority of SoCal's (including San Diego) latino baseball fans are Dodgers fans or identify with The Dodgers. Having a Mexican superstar manning first base is HUGE. Look no further than Fernando Valenzuela and everything he did for The Dodgers. A-Gon will not have the impact Fernando did, but he certainly sells tickets and merchandise. He is already on billboards and promotional pieces all over town. Like I said, his contract is worth it for what he brings to the Dodgers.

As far as Puig goes, he is young and most likely will not start in the bigs next year. I have a feeling that he will be in AAA next year getting more experience. He was signed prior to the Crawford acquisition, who as previously stated, was the throw in for Gonzalez. My guess is that Ethier or Crawford will be traded at some point with L.A. eating part of their contract if Puig forces his way into the lineup.

As for the prospects, I liked Rubby, but he is coming off of a major reconstructive arm surgery and had already had questions about his durability. Sands and DeJesus are career AAAA payers. Too good for the minors, not good enough for the pros. Itching is lost for L.A. with them.

Look, you seem to overlook what I am saying in that they eventually have to win. Clearly that is the case with all teams. What I am saying is that they had to spend this money, cut the parking costs, renovate the stadium (if not completely build a new one downtown), have Magic Johnson shake hands and kiss babies and look for other ways to stay in the news right now. The business is bigger than just the product on the field. It just is.

 

Thats the thing I dont think AGone will have any seasons in the foreseeable future with less then 25hr/100rbi/850OPS. Crawford on the other hand...always wary of speed-based players on contract #3. That just screams decline.

 

Yes I do have a clue how bad the Dodger situation was. However I still don't agree with the most of the moves they made since the ownership took over. Everything they did was short sighted and were more worried about short term success and making a splash. I'm sure they felt it was necessary to do something but I think they went to the extreme. Taking on all of that money to have a "face of the franchise" in Gonzalez was silly. They had 2 star franchise players on their team already in Kemp and Kershaw, I would have marketed the hell out of them instead of taking on a quarter of a billion dollars in salaries. Even if their new TV deal will pay it all off or if they can afford it from an on the field stand point it didn't make sense. That's all nice that Gonzalez has his pictures on billboards and all but again none of that will matter if the team doesn't win. I'm sure making that trade brought excitement back to the Dodgers, but if they don't win it's going to be all for nothing.

I think you're overlooking my point that if the Dodgers don't win the new ownership group is going to look foolish. People seem to think just because the Dodgers are putting money into the team that they're automatically going to be good. That's not the case nor is it any guarantee, in fact none of the players they brought in or signed (besides Kemp) are sure bets. Out of all the money the Dodgers took on, most of it looks like a giant waste of money right now. That's my point. They're spending money because they have it, they're not spending it wisely in my opinion.

And let's be real here, the Dodgers were never in any real danger of ceasing to exist. The MLB bailed the Expos out of debt in the late 90s too. They never would have let a MLB team go under, especially not a franchise like the Dodgers.

 

Throw RBI out of the window right now but if he has 25 HRs and a 850 OPS that's still not good enough for a player making what he does.

And yes I agree about Crawford, he's a platoon player at this point coming off an awful 2011 season and a lost 2012 season and coming off of 2 separate surgeries. I don't think he's done as a player but I don't think we'll ever see Tampa Bay Ray Crawford anymore.

 

They are the new Yankees. Boras must be creaming himself. Oh and Samphin expect to pay top dollar for ANYONE to play for the Dodgers now. They know the Dodgers will cave afterall its just money right? You guys are going to have to give Kershaw a crazy and i mean crazy contract to keep him there past the next two years.

That and you trade for Crawford. Sign Puig and extend Ethier. Then there is talk of trading Ethier ( who you just extended) to go after Hunter or Hamilton? I know the Dodgers have money but is there any baseball people there with control? Do they know there is no DH and you can only play 3 OF at a time?

 

A light power hitting doubles hitter is worth over 20M huh? Good work if you can get it I suppose....