***Official 2011-12 MLB HOTSTOVE OFF-SEASON THREAD***

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Wow....

 

wow awesome stuff....

 

Bautista, Granderson, Ellsbury and even Cabrera would have been better choices.

 

Michael Young even in the top 10 also fits the stupid voter rule.

 

Bautista should have won.

 

Verlander absolutely deserves it.....although Ron Guidry must be like what the hell!!!

WAR:
Verlander 8.6
Cano 4.6
Bats 8.5
Young 2.4
Ellsbury 7.2
Grandy 5.2
Cabera 7.1
Pedoria 6.8
A-Gone 6.9

Had the highest WAR....now if you want to get into a philosophical debate as to pitchers versus everyday guys, cy young is the pitching MVP, etc...I get that but, it is hard to argue that he didnt deserve it...

 

Pitchers don't deserve MVPs

 

The writer who voted Michael Young #1 on his MVP ballot (Evan Grant) was the same guy who completely left off Dustin Pedroia in 2008. He also voted Adrian Beltre at #10. Clearly a home town homer.

Anyway Verlander isn't a terrible choice, does he deserve the award? Sure. But I still think Bautista, Ellsbury and Granderson should have won it.

As for using WAR for pitchers vs. WAR for position players its kind of hard to judge as pitchers tend to get a bump up on the defensive metrics for whatever reason.

 

Sadly I bet the Red Sox missing out on the playoffs hurt Ellsbury's shot at winning the MVP since voters seem to think that the MVP has to come from a playoff team yet ignoring the fact that the Tigers won the AL Central by well over 10 games and Ellsbury wasn't the reason the Sox missed the playoffs. Just like how Bautista's chances because the Blue Jays were a 4th place team etc. The MVP CAN come from a bad team, it's happened before.

And I do think pitchers can and should win MVP awards but their seasons just have to be that much better/more special than the 1st deserving position player. Kind of like how I think a DH should win a MVP but he has to put up Barry Bonds 2001-2003 type numbers.

But yeah good response, I agree with it all. Except I think the 'save' rule might at least just as useless as the 'win' maybe more. But that's a different debate for a different time.

 

Geez BDH you a closet Red Sox fan?!?!?....

But I agree I thought Ellsbury probably should have won, and kinda wanted him too.....anything to boost up the ole asking price for Boras....

 

Jacoby Ellsbury had a higher WAR than Bautista and Verlander, according to Fangraphs. IMO, he deserved the award. I don't believe pitchers should win MVP's.

 

They will most likely sign him to a dela that will lock him up beyond his arbitration eligible years. Matt Kemp's deal calls for him to take less upfront to help the team be more flexible the next two years in pursuing free agents and signing their own. The thought was for them to go after someone like Prince Fielder, but that is dead and gone now, so most likely, they will sit back and sign their own talent like Kershaw, Ethier and possibly Loney. Their payroll will be less than 2011's, which means they will, once again, rely on in house talent for any and all contributions. Once new ownership is in place (likely by Opening Day), I wouldn't be surprised to see L.A. start trading off certian pieces.

But Kershaw and Kemp are Dodgers for a good long while, IMO.

 

I think Alomar would have been the best fit for them, even without much experience...I just like him...I love Pena too...

 

50% is crazy.....so another bottom feeder team must need a new stadium, those terrible Yankees must pay for it!!!

 

No, its not you guys must. Its you guys choose to out spend everyone by ridiculous amounts. You don't have to go over the luxury tax.

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Thats crap.....if you have the money, and make it, you should be allowed to spend it as you feel....

Either have a cap or dont....

 

Either have a cap or don't? You don't want to get into that argument. Yankees are thrilled there is no cap. What are you saying?

 

I agree 100%

 

Why though? What does Alomar bring to the table? How is he the best fit? See this is the problem when people are making when they're going all up and arms about who's going to be the next manager, especially guys with zero experience. We have no idea how they will do their job. Even guys with past managerial experience are hard to determine if they're the right fit for a team or not (unless it's guys like Dusty Baker who has the rep and experience of burning pitchers out for example). No one liked the Francona or Torre hires and they turned out great. On the flip side no matter where Lou Pinella went everyone loved the move but what had he ever done in those stops? I'm not a huge Bobby Valentine guy but if the Sox think he's the best guy for the job I'm willing to reserve judgment and see what he can actually bring to the table before I praise or knock him. It's really a crapshoot and ultimately up to the players to produce and do their jobs.

 

They would be fine though, because baseball would have to change some rules (eliminate Type A & B's etc)...and it actually would benefit NY, because salary demands wouldn't be a burden on NY anymore....everything would fall in line...

Everything would come down to drafting well, and self organization managment....and New York would be okay with that....To say NY SOLELY is successful because of free agency is a myth of the highest degree.....they were more successful actually in the 90's when they had more homegrown talent than the Red Sox did....

 

Yeah RF, I cant give you facts, but I like the younger hungry candidate over the good ole boy status quo....Alomar I think just needs a chance, he was a smart player in his years.....either way the team will win, because of the talent level in Boston....Bobby V. I can picture have more a chance to eff up, because well thats what got him out of baseball to begin with...

 

That's fair and you very well may be right but I'd be a bit nervous giving the job to someone who only has 1 day experience of being a bench coach. Previous to that he was 1st base coach for 2 years and a catching instructor for the Mets for 2 years. No matter who smart the person is, it's a tough job especially in a city like Boston.

 

Bad idea BD, it will just lead to teams overspending on players that aren't worth the money just to make the cap floor and thus over inflating the overall market thus leading to even higher contracts to better players.

Baseball doesn't need a cap, what they're doing now is working. Most of the smaller market teams (and bigger market ones) are finally starting to figure out how to build up the franchise via drafts etc. If anything I'd predict that the FA market is going to take a hit in the coming years since the majority of the big FA signings don't tend to pan out.

 

True, but I would rather pay a few extra dollars to hit a floor, and have a cap that it doesn't exceed, then get whacked luxury tax, and have it go to some crap team who has no intention on bettering that team....I would rather see that money stay in NY, and continue to develop the area around it, as they have been doing...

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I just feel that with a floor it will force teams to spend more money on no name, no talent RPers or back up INFers/OFers to simply hit that salary floor, which in turn doesn't make that team any better. I don't think you'll see teams being more competitive with a floor.