*Official 2009 Atlanta Braves Thread*

He has been playing well all around. No knuckleheaded baserunning either.

 

Did you guys see Andruw hit 3 HR's last night? His new stance and stride look great. Maybe we can trade Francoeur and get him back

 

Maybe we can trade Mike Gonzales and get him back. Before everybody figures out how many games he blows.

 

I think Gonzalez has just been over-used. It seems like every night we're in a close game going into the 8th and 9th innings. When you consider that his career high for innings pitched is 54 and he's already at 42 this year, I'd say he's a little tired.

 

Mets traded OF Ryan Church to Braves for OF Jeff Francouer & $$$.

Church is heading to a better situation, as now he won't have to deal with a manager who never seemed to like Church. Church will provide the Braves with an immediate improvement over Francouer, even though Church is struggling on offense as well. While the Braves need right-handed bats, they'll take the lefty bat over Francouer's 88 OPS+ over his last 2,000 at bats. Church has a better shot than Francouer of a revival at the plate

wow.....like this side of the deal

 

Odd to do it within the division. But I've never been a fan of Frenchy's plate discipline. The Mets can take his career .266/.308/.422

 

Why does Church have a better shot? I'm not sure I understand this one. Why do you trade one struggling outfielder for another? To a division rival? Do they think Church will breakout with a manager like Bobby Cox?

 

Nobody has any thoughts on this? Mixed reactions from the Mets thread. I really don't know anything about Church.

 

just found out about this. all I can say is weird................ weird the mets would want francoeur and weird we would want church a guy who maybe is a little better?

 

Church is an average player when hes healthy but hes never healthy. I dont wish it on him, hes not a bad guy or a locker room cancer but its always something. Supposedly he was in Jerry's doghouse for some reason unknown to me. Either way, they guy has never had 500 AB's in a season because he cant stay healthy or hit lefties.

I can imagine the braves fans frustration with Francine, errr frenchy, but like I said in the Mets thread Im willing to best his strained relationship with Cox and Wren had a lot to do with his performance. Its hard enough to make all the adjustments at the big league level especially when you had early success but when the GM clearly hates your guts and the manager seems pretty apathetic its going to affect anyone to varying degrees.

Either Francoeur will get eaten alive in NY or he will regain his form. Its a sink or swim deal that the mets will just cut loose if it doesnt work out for them within the next year or two.

 

i will miss Francouer, and he had just started looking a bit better at the plate. 3 doubles in his last appearance as a Brave. Church is a bit older and doesn't have Frenchy's arm, but can play CF.

it's a case where both guys can benefit from a fresh start supposedly. we'll see.

i'll miss the homegrown talent on display nightly. and by all accounts, Frenchy is a decent human being.

hope Church is as well.

 

Jeff is a guy who has always been able to "get by" with his athleticism, and he has always played the game of baseball with a football player's mentality. That served him well in high school and in the minors, but in the majors, it just appears that despite his athletic talent, Jeff has simply been unable to make the ajustments he has needed to make to become a better hitter. He started out like gangbusters, hitting 10 home runs in his first 130 at bats while also hitting .300. In his second and third seasons, he hit a total of 48 home runs and drove in 100 runs in each season. After that, his hitting took a sharpe decline. He bulked up thinking it would give him more power, but it cost him his bat speed. He dropped his weight this year, but he has simply been unable to make any other changes. He's still predominately a first pitch hitter. He's still very susceptible to the outside pitches. He has terrible strike zone judgement.

I think Bobby Cox had a fitting statement about Jeff when he said Jeff tried to hit home runs instead of just letting them come. Overall, I think Jeff is a great guy with a great work ethic, but I think he ended up having too many hitting coaches trying to tell him what to do. Everyone was telling him something different, and he was trying to listen to all of them. Where he lost Bobby Cox was when he shunned Terry Pendelton and worked with Rudy Jaramillo in the offseason. Bobby Cox is notoriously loyal to his players, but he is even more loyal to his coaches, no matter what some may think of TP. Bobby probably gave Jeff more chances than he would have normally given a young player too. Look at Kyle Davies and Macay McBride. They were shipped out very quickly, too soon for Davies, IMO. Blaine Boyer didn't last long with his struggles this season.

Of course, the concern that now comes with trading Jeff is that you have traded a very talented young player who you will ultimately regret trading if the light ever comes on for him. In the end, I think Chipper probably summed it up best in a comment he made a few weeks ago about Jeff. Chipper said Jeff's biggest problem is that he can't feel his flaws. You can point them out to him on film, but when he's trying to translate it to the cage, he can't feel what he's doing wrong. Chipper, who will make a fine hitting coach one day, basically said that it's difficult to fix what you can't feel. It may be that Jeff is a great talent that simply lacks the natural instincts for the game. It's hard to overcome a lack of plate discipline.

 

One of the biggest crocks in this All Star game is the fact that Dustin Pedroia is starting over Aaron Hill at second base, and Ian Kinsler from Texas didn't get in. Both Hill and Kinsler are having better seasons than Pedroia. Justin Morneau should also be starting over Mark Teixiera at first base, and I think you could make a case for Kevin Youkilis over Tex as well.

 

I was watching Soriano close out the game last night and wondering why he isn't an all-star. He looked absolutely dominant out there and has been so basically all season. I guess the all star teams probably don't carry more than one maybe two closers so that's probably a hard spot to get. Javy Vasquez not being on the team is just ridiculous. His ERA is very good and he's second in strikeouts only to Lincecum. I guess pitchers are also supposed to control how much run support they get.

 

Francoer had nothing but support in Atlanta and it didn't happen for him. Coaches supported him, players supported him, and the fans mostly continued to support him throughout his struggles. I'm not sure how an environment like New York is going to help him suddenly get it. He doesn't have the hometown thing going for him anymore. Bobby Cox is known for being a players' manager and I have a hard time believing that Bobby was any significant part of the reason for Frenchy's struggles. Even if he was less than thrilled with Francoer not working with Terry Pendleton. Look how long it took him to give up on JoJo Reyes.

I really don't know what this trade accomplished for either team. To trade him to a rival suggests that nobody else was interested in Jeff. Why would you take the chance that the Mets get 2005/06 Jeff Francoer?

 

Oh I definitely agree with you but here's the thing the fans vote for the players they want to see and it is an All Star game, baseball's stars should go to it to help showcase the sport. My only point is if people want to take away the fans voting, the other players and managers/coaches don't do a better job picking the deserving players.

 

From a Braves perspective I cant figure the trade out for the life of me. Church is ok but is really a 4th OF.

As far as his relationship with Cox, I remember Francoeur being very upset when he was sent down last year because he was told like 5 minutes before a game was about to start and that he was told by someone other then Cox and Wren (an equipment manger?) and he felt it was unprofessional. I know he and Wren had a back and forth in the press over that and he and Cox had a sit down over that. I dont believe anything ever got resolve and hard feelings persisted on both side.

New York is a tricky environment. We boo the holy hell out of a player if they suck (ask Luis Castillo) and we love players that perform. No one wants to be booed so the motivation to perform is greater. Conversely many players falter under that pressure but some players man up and outperform expectations. Case in point might be Ollie Perez (07 and 08 versions) where he outperformed is career numbers. The downside is a guy like Aaron heilman who clearly could not handle the pressure of having every pitch scrutinized.

 

Why was a rookie making his major league debut out of the pen in the 9th? Do they want to win games? I don't understand. I don't understand much of anything they do lately. At least they're smart enough to keep Prado in the lineup every day.

 

was wondering the same thing... i was also wondering why Bobby pulled Boone Logan. they had just said he was going strong and had only thrown 27 pitches, in an inning and 2/3, so of course, right on cue, out walks Cox to yank him and immediately the rally started.

 

It just shows you how bad the Mets are right now that they traded a average player for an even worse one. Church isn't great by any means, but he's def an upgrade over Francoeur.

I was surprised to see us trade him within the division, but not sad to see him leave. The guy has made no changes to his swing (still has that hitch) and refuses to listen to Terry Pendelton.

Church gives us another Left-Handed bat and some versatility in the OF. Frenchie was a black hole in our lineup who didnt hit for power and didnt walk. I wish him well, but I dont think he'll have success in NY.

 

Maybe Church could be another player to platoon with Matt Diaz.

 

I think thats the plan. We'll probably see Diaz play RF or LF when a Lefty pitches. I haven't looked at Church's splits to see how he hits lefty's, but Id assume he can't be any worse than Garrett Anderson.

I think we need to see if Brooks Conrad can play the OF because he's been a super-sub at 2B.

 

I agree, I think he's pulling a Martin Prado where he's becoming a guy you have to find a way to get in the lineup everyday. Of course he will have to sustain it for a while to be like Prado.

 

I like the nucleus of this team. If I were Wren (next season), Id ship out Kelly Johnson, get rid of Anderson, promote Heyward and Freddie Freeman, possibly move Kotchman, and move Vasquez for a big bat.

I doubt we make a push for a Matt Holliday, but thats the kind of bat we need to become a contender.

One guy in the middle of the order who hits 35-40 HR's with our pitching staff and this team is legit.

 

Frank Wren and Omar Minaya Talk Trade

Found this on a Braves board. Pretty good.

Ring, Ring, Ring

Frank excuses himself from his dinner with his wife as he hears the ring

His wife glances over at his phone and sees "Incoming Call: Latin Lover" and gives a nasty stare at Frank

Frank smirks and says don't worry about it honey, it's just Omar Minaya and walks into the other room

FW: No Omar, you still can't have Prado, Escobar, Soriano or Vazquez
OM: Ahh, Frank, you know me too well, but today I have a different proposal
FW: Okay Omar, let's hear it
OM: I want to trade for Jeff Francoeur
FW: (spits out coffee on computer screen) Okay Omar, what else do you want with him?
OM: Oh no no, I just want Jeff, he is very durable, has a great arm, and plays good glove defense.
FW: Alright, that's all true (nose grows about 3 inches), so you want us to eat his salary?
OM: No, I don't want money, I want to trade Ryan Church to you for him.
FW: (wets pants).......Omar, what is your middle name?
OM: I'm sorry, no comprende?
FW: I need to make sure this is for real Omar, now what's your middle name and date of birth?
OM: Teodoro - November 10th, 1958
FW: Okay, Ryan Church for Jeff Francoeur........fax over the trade sheet
OM: It's on its way.
FW: I'll have it back there before you can blink, buenos dias Omar.
OM: Goodbye Frank.

Frank walks back to the dinner table screaming in joy

Frank's wife is now even more concerned and yells "Frank, you get a call from "Latin Lover", you go in the other room, your pants are wet, and you have a huge smile on your face, now what is really going on?"

FW: I just traded Jeff Francoeur to the Mets for a human being with the right amount of chromosomes

His wife now has a matching smile and runs to him and gives him a huge hug
and says "Let's go upstairs"

 

That's funny because it's probably true. I don't remember if you said you ever read 'Moneyball' but there's a chapter in it with Billy Beane explaining to Omar how a 3 team trade works (Omar was going to trade Cliff Floyd to the Red Sox for 2 minor league pitchers and Beane wanted to get Youkilis from the Red Sox so he wanted to get Omar to ask for Youkilis as well and Beane would then either trade another player to the Expos or to the Red Sox to get Youkilis) and what do you and how to pull it off and he even then he still didn't fully understand it. It was a both funny and somewhat sad that a MLB GM was that clueless.

 

My guess is that this is loosely based off that encounter.

 

That was some funny stuff.

 

great stuff watching some of the Maddux events yesterday.check out Mark Bowman's blog for some funny stories about Greg.

it'd be nice if the Phillies ever lost a game when we weren't playing them lately.

 

I was at the game yesterday. The stadium was packed, the announced crowd was over 51,000 and I believe it. The atmosphere was great. I had great seats only six rows back from the visitor dugout. Unfortunately they lost. Fortunately for us Braves fans the Mets can't start Johan Santana in every game.

I'd love to know why with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 8th with a chance to go ahead you pinch hit Greg stinkin Norton.

 

Figures I get great seats to the only loss in a four game series.

 

yeah way to ruin our win streak.

 

I was 6-0 at the Ted before that game.

 

I had pretty much conceeded that game against Johan, even though we had alot of opportunities and should have won.

Liked what I saw last night. Another solid start for Javy, and Yunel and GAndy are coming alive. If we can get Nate hot, we can make a push. Philly is playing out of their minds lately though.

 

They've only lost one game since we swept them. Ridiculous. Atlanta has played them well this season and may be the only ones with a chance of cooling them off at this point. Hopefully they have a series soon, I haven't checked their schedule lately.

 

We match up well with them because our starting pitching is so strong. I actually believe this Braves team would be tough in a 7-Game playoff series because of our staff.

If Philly gets Halladay though, go ahead and close the book on the NL East...

 

Yunel was just named NL Player of the Week. Anderson was actually a runner-up as well.

 

wow kind of looks like the phillies and atlanta are on a crash course the way atlanta is starting to play and the phillies are playing....