NFL teams working feverishly to solve the Margus Hunt mystery

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by jim1, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Being 6-8 can be problematic for a defensive player, too, and that’s another aspect of Hunt’s game that has some scouts concerned. During Senior Bowl week, when moved out to a 4-3 end spot, Hunt struggled to maintain leverage against some of college football’s elite tackles.

    “If you have that kind of height, there’s a disadvantage of standing up tall way too early, looking in the backfield — you’re driven off the line of scrimmage and can’t really control the opponent,” Hunt says. “It’s getting better, but I still have to improve a little bit.”

    For NFL teams, the draft is as much a challenge in deciphering a player’s upside as it is picking apart his current skills. Perhaps no 2013 prospect is as much a walking Rubik’s Cube as Hunt.

    http://nfl.si.com/2013/03/28/nfl-teams-working-feverishly-to-solve-the-margus-hunt-mystery/
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Problem with Hunt in a nutshell is it is hard to use a high pick on a guy who is raw and doesn't really have a position in the league that makes sense.
     
  3. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Screams bust to me. He's not going to be a grown man beating up on 20 year olds anymore.
     
  4. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Sure he does, 3/4 DE or 4/3 DE. Being a bit older and new to the game isn't a great combo, but then again consider the case of Menelik Watson. Hunt is 6-8 and almost 280 lbs and runs a 4.6, one of the quicker DEs I've seen coming off the corner, also one of the strongest players at the combine.

    There are concerns over hunt no doubt, but he not only has potential, he can fill what I see as an immediate need- a legitimate pass rusher. Passing down DE off the bat, and we lack depth in terms of pass rushers as well. The bottom line is that he's huge, strong, fast, has a quick burst and 1st step and we could use all of those qualities. Hunt doesn't seem to be a crowd favorite around here, but count me in as interested.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXIV8LYURsc
     
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  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Physical stuff doesn't matter jim1, put him at DE and watch him get combo blocked, cut blocked, misdirected to the point he has no idea what is going on.

    Specialist passrusher who plays high and doesn't bend the edge yet?

    Guy like Hunt is a luxury pick, if he works out fine, if not, that is fine too.

    Actually, imo he would do well to have taken the Armstead path to the league, he basically had health problems at USC and the league wanted nothing to do with him, spent a year in the CFL and played at a high level vs pro competition and the pats signed him.

    As for Watson, ever hear of Danny Watson?
     
  6. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Danny Watkins? Eagles 1st rd pick, must have been 25 or 26 as a rookie. And Hunt can bend the edge, that's nonsense. At the least you have a jumbo DE pass rusher that goes 6-8 275-280 runs a 4.6 and is extremely strong. Not sure where your'e going with the misdirection/combo block stuff, Hunt can learn just as well as any rookie I would imagine, and should have a steeper learning curve. Watch some tape, Hunt is one of the best edge rushers in the draft imo, and that is exactly what we need.
     
  7. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The mystery is why everyone is so interested in someone stiffer than our average ironing board.
     
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  8. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Because he's extremely big, extremely strong, extremely fast and he can rush the passer, which is a big need for us. On top of that he has 16 or so career sacks and is one of the best kick blockers in college football.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SLCNaHJco
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So Vaughn Martin looks great going up against a 185 lbs scout that looks like he could be a CPA, and Margus Hunt looks great going up against undersized 18 year old no-star recruits that are in way over their heads. Awesome. We'll have the best team ever. As long as our opponents every week are from the local women's prison.
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    In a pass happy conference?

    16 sacks is not exactly tearing it up.

    His ST ability is what interests me and basically, I'm not seeing him turn the corner on a tackle and leave them in the dust around the edge, if anything he is more suited to an interior DT passrushing specialist role as it would play to his size/speed combination and he does have the burst to shoot the gaps

    Sorry bro, I'm not seeing an elite passrusher, I'm seeing a project.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Margus Hunt would be a good pick in the end of the draft. Somewhere in the 5th round.
     
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  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Honestly I would start looking at Margus Hunt in the 3rd round but that's only where I would START to look at him. He probably wouldn't start to be compelling to me though until we got to the 4th round pick, depending on who else is there.

    And the reason I would look at him would be to play inside in the nickel defense. I wouldn't even have him play in the base defense unless he came a long way which I doubt he will. I trust him to rush the passer from the inside in nickel and I trust him to potentially block some more kicks. But that's about all.
     
  13. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Don't act as if every game Hunt played against was Fresno St. and every OT Hunt beat was your favorite whipping boy from that school, the one that you've mentioned more than once as a low rated pos OT. No matter how you cut it Hunt has done a good job producing as a pass rusher and his triangle numbers are off the charts. This draft is chock full of flawed pass rushing prospects, and Hunt is one of them- that being said, he's definitely on my radar, and if not yours so be it.

    The bottom line is that Hunt is an explosive pass rushing DE, has a very good first step, has produced more career sacks than most of the pass rushers in this draft iirc and he's fast, huge and exceedingly strong. That's not the worst resume in the world, not to mention his 15 or so career sacks, and small wonder that he seems to be rated as a solid 2nd or 3rd round pick despite his advanced age and limited football experience. There's worse things in the world than drafting a 6-8, 280 lb DE who ran a ludicrous 4.6 flat at the combine and led the entire combine with 38 reps of 225, along with Brandon Williams. That's what we call strength and speed in excess, and the NFL tends to value those, along with his planet theory size and uncanny abililty to block kicks. There's hardly a mystery as to why he's rated highly, as his athletic tools and size are off the charts. 4.60 in the 40 at 6-8, 280. 38 reps of 225 to lead the combine. And despite that your choice is to bring up how lousy the Fresno St. OT was who got beat like a drum by Hunt. Good Lord, maybe you can focus on something else for a change- maybe some of his positive attributes or the 3 sacks that he got against Pitt, his sack of Johnny Manziel, 2 sacks vs Houston, take your pick.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SLCNaHJco

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXIV8LYURsc
     
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  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What about Devin Taylor? He's another physical freak who killed the combine.
     
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  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    Does that accurately describe Pitt's offensive tackles?
     
  16. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Taylor is a pretty intriguing player, at least in my opinion. Pretty darned fast, good in sideline pursuit, large wingspan, excellent size, he's got some serious tools to work with. Overshadowed by having Clowney across the line from him, but Taylor managed to get 18 1/2 sacks at USC, solid number. Granted he's got those long arms, but his 14 reps of 225 at the combine failed to impress, same number of reps iirc that Tavon Austin got.
     
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  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which does give him value, especially if a GM could see him getting into that 280 pd range with the same tools, and ST ability is always a plus.

    BUT, when you start talking about a draftee's value being ST, unless he is Devin Hester jr, you are not then talking a high pick.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No you're right, he also looked really good against good ole "Guitar" Greg Gaskins the converted guard from Pittsburgh who wasn't even invited to try out for an NFL team. It wasn't just poor Alex Fifita.

    Producing? More than most pass rushers in this class?

    Travis Johnson - 32.0 sacks (4 years)
    Trevardo Williams - 30.5 sacks (4 years)
    Jarvis Jones - 28.0 sacks (2 years)
    Chase Thomas - 27.0 sacks (4 years)
    Damontre Moore - 26.5 sacks (3 years)
    Bjoern Werner - 23.5 sacks (3 years)
    Alex Okafor - 23.0 sacks (4 years)
    Quanterus Smith - 23.0 sacks (3 years)
    Brandon Jenkins - 22.5 sacks (3 years)
    Jamie Collins - 21.0 sacks (4 years)
    John Simon - 19.5 sacks (4 years)
    Sam Montgomery - 19.0 sacks (3 years)
    Travis Long - 18.5 sacks (4 years)
    Devin Taylor - 18.5 sacks (4 years)
    Kawann Short - 18.0 sacks (3 years)
    Meshak Williams - 17.5 sacks (2 years)
    Tank Carradine - 16.5 sacks (2 years)
    Corey Lemonier - 16.0 sacks (3 years)
    Sio Moore - 15.5 sacks (3 years)
    Stansley Maponga - 15.5 sacks (3 years)
    Margus Hunt - 15.5 sacks (4 years)
    Dion Jordan - 14.5 sacks (3 years)
    Michael Buchanon - 14.0 sacks (3 years)
    Barkevious Mingo - 14.0 sacks (3 years)
    Datone Jones - 13.5 sacks (3 years)
    Malliciah Goodman - 12.5 sacks (4 years)
    Cornelius Washington - 10.5 sacks (4 years)
    Lavar Edwards - 10.5 sacks (4 years)
    William Gholston - 10.0 sacks (3 years)
    Ezekiel Ansah - 4.5 sacks (3 years)

    On a per year basis, Margus Hunt's sack production only beats 5 of the other 29 pass rushers on this list. I don't think that qualifies as "most".
     
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  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Actually I was talking about the Fresno State bowl game. The guy he whooped up on in the Pitt bowl game was Guitar Greg Gaskins, a converted guard who never even got invited to try out for an NFL team. Margus beat him pretty good.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    HELL of a lot better prospect than Margus Hunt, IMO.
     
  21. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Point taken on the sack total, I should have referred to his Senior year, not career, my bad. The point was that he produced, bottom line. Regardless, when I look at the film of Hunt I see the speed translating on the field, I see an explosive edge rusher with a very good first step. I have no idea where you get the notion to plug a 6-8 guy with that speed as a pass rushing DT as you did in an earlier post , I don't like that idea at all, except that he'd probably bat down some passes.

    There are always multiple ways of looking at things- Hunt's competition at SMU is not going to be exemplary by nature, that's SMU. He did get a sack against Texas A&M, but even there it looks to me as if one of their OL- not Joeckel or Matthews- blew the pass pro and Hunt got to Manziel- and got there fast. Look at Bjoern Werner for example- he got about half of his sacks early against crap competition in 2012 (Murray St., Savannah St and Wake Forest) then got shut out in 6 of the next 7 games, then came back strong against UM, UF and Maryland iirc. I like Werner, don't love him, but he's a good player with an excellent 1st step. I'm not going to throw him unfder the bus because he disappeared for half the year after the cream puff first three games of the FSU schedule. Likewise, Hunt has excellent quickness off the line, very good 1st step and the competition he faced was sporadic- that's how it goes. You seem awfully quick to dismiss Hunt and his physical tools imo- players that big, that fast, that quick and that strong don't grow on trees.

    If you want to harshly criticize the production of a very athletically talented DE I would suggest starting with Cornelious Washington from Georgia, who shows signs of Tarzan (Senior Bowl and combine) and signs of Jane (the actual 2012 season) where he got all of 1/2 sack and 22 tackles (solo plus assist) on the year. I looked at the film and a lot of what I saw was truly odious, clueless, nonproductive football. I would take Hunt or Devin Taylor over Washington in a heartbeat- Washington looked so bad at times that he made Ezekiel Ansah look like he knew what he was doing in comparison, and that's quite a feat to pull off.

    Look at the film- Hunt has the size, speed, quicks and strength to be an effective edge rusher and he's very quick off the snap. Granted he's not the most flexible guy in the world as you and Boomer pointed out earlier and in a separate thread, but he can bend the arc and this is football, not limbo. He can get the job done. If he looked crappy as an edge rusher I would be the first to say so- he does not. He's flawed, and as I've said before all of these DEs are flawed in this draft class. I would be looking at Hunt and Taylor in the late 2nd to 3rd rd range and Washington and Gholston as late round possibilities with large bust potential. Bottom line, I don't know how you can watch the film and not see significant edge rushing potential in Hunt. But to each his own.
     
  22. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    Fortunately we get the Jets twice a year
     
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