I didn't realize he had medical issues. I was thinking he could have some upside in a dual back tandem in a ZBS. IMO he possesses fabulous vision paired with a consistent ability to recognize the open lane, reminiscent of Alfred Morris but perhaps not quite Morris's ability to jolt a would-be tackler upon contact.
Frankly, if he didn't have the leg injuries, he'd have been a pretty high pick. He was excellent at running outside zone. Chris Peterson's brilliant gameplanning helped but he had some very good open field vision and underrated toughness.
Oh lawwwd, I hope those aren't our only options. Namely because we're drafting second round talent with the #12 picks. Please no. Considering Ireland has boxed himself in by refusing to address skill positions on offense throughout his tenure, it wouldn't surprise me if he finds himself reaching to correct past mistakes.
No TE is worth a first round pick so lets just move on from that. If we had Brandon Marshall I'd be all for drafting Austin but seeing how we have no one I'd like Patterson at 12 over Austin.
A lot of draft experts are rating Eifert and Ertz around the mid 1st. Daniel Jeremiah had Ertz going 13th in a recent mock draft and I've seen several having one or the other going 19-21. That's before the combine. I'm thinking Eifert's workout is going to elevate him, and Ertz isn't going to drop any. So, if you want a seam busting TE and you're at 12, maybe you could trade down a little, but what if no one wants to trade with you? Do you say, oh well, this is 7 picks too high for the TE we want so go another direction, or do you not concern youself with it and take him knowing you got a good player and instant starter? The reason I used the what if of Austin, is some pretty knowledgeable people here today suggested he could be in consideration as high as 12. The dude is a big playmaker. Homerun hitter from any place on the field. He isn't big, but look at the muscularity, he is packed tight and well put together. Like Mayock said, the NFL is all about matchups, and Austin is a matchup nightmare for opposing defenses.
Man..I just watched Austin explode out of his stance, I also like the way he's built at his size..He's a very low risk player imo, I think your gonna get what you see on tape at the next level...sh&$, this is tough man, let me finish up these receivers and I'll get back to you, there's some things I wanna see from woods before I decide.
I understand where you're coming from. If the Miami brass really falls in love with Eifert, so be it. If they're that confident in his abilities, you have to draft him #12 in the position you're describing (assuming no better prospect falls from grace to #12). I'm certainly not in love with him. I think his combine was a little overrated. 4.68 forty was solid. Interesting enough, his 10 yard split wasn't all that impressive. Good enough for bottom five. As a TE, I don't expect him to be running 40 yard routes (I tend to value 10 yard split > 40 yard for every player). Nor was I impressed with his "22 rep" aka 15-17 rep bench. Not to get to numbers heavy here, my point is I'm not so sure we couldn't get away with drafting another TE in R2/3 (Kelce or Escobar) and get a better player and better value. And I think there's a few other interesting candidates with Gragg, Reed, Fauria, worth further consideration. I'm just not sold on him as being the next big thing at the TE position. So for me, I would be unhappy with Eifert at 12. There's no way Tavon Austin is worth #12, let alone a first IMO. I get where you're coming from, but the first name that pops into my mind is Pat White. He was also small, but muscular and packaged tightly together. And he was a bit bigger height/weight. At 12, I might seriously question if the Dolphins are worth my time anymore.
Thanks for that. I thought I remembered you bringing this up a little while back, but I couldn't remember exactly how the story went. What do you think of this kid as a player? I doubt I've seen one of his games at WSU, but I thought he was the most impressive WR at the combine today. He was so smooth for a guy that big, and his hands looked fantastic. The gauntlet drill seems to get some flak, but it's my favorite WR drill at the combine because I think it gives you the best picture of a WRs hands and concentration. You really get to see who's a natural hands catcher. And he absolutely killed that drill I thought.
I don't either..I think a lot of us had him in the late first, but his stock is going up, like boomer is projecting.
That is a good point. Just remember Egnew's combine last season. He set the mark for broad jump for TEs. 1 foot more than any TE got this year. He ran faster than Eifert did too. Lifted pretty well, 21 reps I think. 36 vertical, 2nd best 3 cone, 2nd best shuttle among TEs. So far, that ain't meant diddly squat, though I'm not ready to give up on him yet. As for Pat White, just because he and Austin both came from West Va, that is not a good reason to downplay Austin. They are two different players, and White was built much differently. He looked skinny out there. Austin looks solid.
After reading CK's account of what happened at WSU regarding Wilson, I'd sure consider him as a 2nd WR to draft in like the 5th, if I'd taken one already in the top 3 rounds.
I thought Austin, Patterson, Wheaton, Patton, Bailey, Swope, DaRick Rogers, Josh Boyce, and Connor Vernon's drill times all fit well with what Ireland seems to look for in that regard.
I have to go back and try and watch some tape of him now, because I developed a serious man-crush on the guy after watching his workout today. I'm pretty surprised they didn't talk more about him although it is a pretty talented class and those 40 times in general were pretty crazy all-around so there was a lot to talk about.
Pretty much the only thing that keeps me hoping he can develop. That and the system he came from is a naturally slow transition. As for Pat White and Tavon. I wonder if the only reason White looked skinnier is if he was just taller? White just popped into mind based on the description. Funny, I just watched Tavon interview on NFL network. He's a really likable kid. Quiet and soft spoken. I feel bad for trashing him for #12 now lol. If Miami were to run more read option, I think Tavon might be in play later in the draft and a more interesting pick (like you said, nightmare matchup). I just have such a hard time imagining any team, regardless of his physical skills and talent, saying "yeah, let's pass on X, Y, and Z for the kid who's 5' 8/9" and a 170lbs in round 1.
A kid like Tavon is still a question mark to contribute on the outside. As such, despite hs dynamic ability, he could be limited by playing slot, and DC's scheming to take him away. He'll make highlight reels, but not produce enough more than the slot guy he replaced to justify a 12 pick, IMO... Unless the team uses him on a lot of additional, inventive ways... Lots of running type plays like screens, reverses, jet sweep whatever, punt and kickoff return etc. If you are a team set at 1 and 2 receiver this kid is an amazing addition. Just imagine what he could do in Atlanta, with Roddy White and Julio Jones outside him, and Tony Gonzalez too. Dang. Or imagine if NE lets Welker go and brings Tavon in. Or even better, if San Fran did. Wow. I think we are best off getting a Jennings, Stedman Bailey and Terrance Williams to go with Bess. That foursome could hurt you at any level of the field from short to deep, making contested catches, breaking tackles, and be very solid in the red zone and on bi g plays. Also great is that Baliey and Williams are counter-cyclical in their productivity... Williams is hottest in the first and third quarter, while Bailey is hot in the second and fourth quarters. That means you have a corps where someone will always be playing at their best, and open.
If he were 2-3 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier, sure. The size of the two guys is noticeable. As KB21 has pointed out, Austin is really more of a luxury pick because of his size/skill set. In round 1: I think three teams could make sense. Seattle: With Wilson running the read option (which might suit Tavon best), Tavon makes sense. They have a need for a WR and they could use Tavon to spell Lynch, special formations, etc... Might be an ideal situation for him. Denver: Peyton lined up and handed the ball off in shotgun quite a bit last year. More than I've ever seen him do. They have an aging slot WR and RB in McGahee. Put Tavon inside of Thomas and Decker and maybe line him up at RB occasionally, and I think he could be explosive. Denver might prioritize some defense though, lessening Tavon's odds of landing there. They should try and scoop Banks up in a trade up if he falls. Atlanta: Turner is gone, leaving a void at RB. Gonzo said he was retiring last year. Could be a good idea to pair up Jones and White with Tavon. Beyond those three, I don't see a spot for him. In round 2 Detroit (36): Titus Young is gone and their RB position is weak. A dynamic player like Austin might be perfect for freeing up Calvin Johnson. Arizona (38). Their RB position kind of sucks and BA made good use of TY Hilton in Indy. Assuming they get their QB situation handled, you've got Fitz, Floyd, and Austin? Could be a scary trio. Miami, Carolina, and Washington could make sense in round 2 as well. Carolina and Washington for read option reasons. Miami could use more read option this year. If Reggie walks, Miller takes over. Under certain circumstances, Tavon could play some RB. Not sure how well he fits in with our current group of WR's though. Obviously FA will change things (Hartline and Jennings). But I'm not sure I would want Tavon as a WR over Patton, Bailey, Swope, etc... They're more complete. And the WR commentary du jour suggests we need someone who can play X, Y, and Z. That's not Austin.
Like others have pointed out Austin is a guy you take if you already have an established WR core because you're not concerned with what he can't run. Bengals would be a nice destination. They so badly need a playmaker that can line up at RB/WR. Imagine him and AJ Green. Dalton would be ecstatic.
How good do I think he can be? Heading into the 2012 season I had he and Keenan Allen neck and neck for best WR in the 2013 Draft honors, rather than Keenan Allen and Justin Hunter, like everyone else. Of course, that's changed a bit after the 2012 season. There was no Cordarrelle Patterson prior to 2012. And even though I had Stedman Bailey rated way, way higher than your typical draft services heading into 2012, I didn't quite have him up there with Marquess Wilson or Keenan Allen yet. Just outside of that group. As a player, I love him. His quick feet and frame remind me a lot of Chad Johnson. He catches the football like Johnson too. And like Johnson, he's a little bit better at "getting open" than he necessarily is at being a technician and offensive specialist. He's a big time play maker down the field, 6'3" and busted out a 4.41 today the Combine. In 2011, Dennis Erickson (then head coach of Arizona State) openly referred to Marquess as the best wide receiver in college football. This in a way reminds me of 2010. Back in that Draft I always said that the two best wide receivers in that Draft from a pure talent standpoint were Dez Bryant of Oklahoma State and Mike Williams of Syracuse. I felt that the gripes with Mike Williams from a character standpoint were legit. Academic cheating, never 'fessed up to it even after he served his time away from Syracuse, was rumored to constantly be a problem in practices under Doug Marrone, and eventually got caught out late at night (early morning) with some other players after a night of partying and gambling at a casino nearby. That was what prompted his deciding to leave the team, knowing he was about to be disciplined. Then he tried to come back to the team and Marrone wouldn't have it. It was ugly. I think personally, uglier than the Marquess Wilson situation. But the talent was there. Many people tried to pretend it wasn't, but I maintained the whole way...pure talent-wise he was second only to Dez Bryant. What he's got to worry about now is the "good ole boy" network. Mike Leach has a lot of connections. His staff have a lot of connections. And they will be badmouthing Marquess Wilson all the way for the trouble he caused them. Once you cross those guys, you will find yourself black listed with a number of college and NFL teams. But I think whichever team can get over the "good ole boy" network and take a flier on the guy is not going to regret it.
I'm gonna stick with my initial evals of Woods and Eifert, I've been on Woods in the 2nd all offseason without much agreement, his workout today confirmed some things for me, plus with a little extra speed to boot..EIfert/ Woods combo.. Both perfect scheme fits, Qb friendly..Immediate impact players, very low risk..Young, athletic, great hands, route runners.. My confidence in Austin being the same player in the pros that he was in college made me think, but the completeness of Eifert and Woods wins out.
Robert Woods averaged 7.3 yards per attempt on passes his direction this year. That was 7.5 yards per attempt when Barkley was in the game and dropped down to 6.6 yards per attempt with Max Wittek. I'm sure people will want to blame all that on Matt Barkley. Except that with Matt Barkley throwing the football Marqise Lee averaged 10.5 yards per attempt. That dropped to 6.7 yards per attempt with Wittek throwing the football. So on the one hand if you try and say that Robert Woods had poor results because of Barkley, one could easily counter by pointing out that Matt Barkley didn't keep Marqise Lee from putting up elite results. Naturally, you might say well yeah but Marqise Lee is just so good that it doesn't matter who is throwing to him he'll still produce. But then I would point out that yes it absolutely did matter who was throwing to him as Lee only tallied 6.7 yards per attempt with Wittek throwing the ball. I just don't really see Robert Woods and think there's anything special there. I'm not big on DeAndre Hopkins but I'd definitely have Nuk higher than Woods.
I agree with CK. Woods doesn't strike me as a guy that is going to be a playmaker at the next level. We need a playmaker not a slot guy like Swope, not a possession guy like Dobson we need someone that can challenge defences
We need Marqise Lee, not Robert Woods. And that's even acknowledging that Marqise Lee has a nasty habit of having the same kind of brain farts and negative plays that you'd see from a Dez Bryant. He's just also got that kind of talent. Cordarrelle Patterson very similar in a lot of ways.
His second run was definitely unofficially timed at 4.44. It may have been corrected later, but that was the time live, I even rewinded the coverage yesterday to double-check when I was posting his time to jim1.
I'll have to check. WalterFootball never recorded it. They recorded his unofficial best at 4.56. I'll have to re-check all of these anyway.
To be honest, they did give out a few 4.44's at that time, and I did wonder if they had a timing issue as it seemed unusual to have 3 or 4 players all getting exactly the same in a short period of runs!
Here's the day's schedule (the number after the time is the group #): 9:00am 7 - DL 40-Yard Dash 10:00am 7 - DL Positional Skill Drills 11:00am 7 - DL Vertical Leap & Broad Jump 12:00pm 7 - DL Three-Cone & Shuttle Drills 1:00pm 9 - LB Vertical Leap & Broad Jump 1:45pm 9 - LB 40-Yard Dash 2:30pm 9 - LB Positional Skill Drills 3:15pm 9 - LB Three-Cone & Shuttle Drills 11:00am 8 - DL 40-Yard Dash 12:00pm 8 - DL Positional Skill Drills 1:00pm 8 - DL Vertical Leap & Broad Jump 2:00pm 8 - DL Three-Cone & Shuttle Drills
Here's my thing on Austin. Yes, he's a playmaker... and yes, our team desperately needs playmakers... but I don't think you can brush off his inability to play outside (if true). Reason being, if he can't play on the outside... then he can't be on the field in 2WR sets/formations... which means he can't always be on the field for you. And if you are taking an offensive player at #12, IMO he's got to have the ability to play every snap. We don't have the luxury IMO of taking an offensive player who can only be used in certain packages. We need a guy who can make an impact every play... And if Austin can't play on the outside, then the only way to get him on the field at that level of usage is to tailor your entire offense around him and getting him on the field in 3WR sets... and I'm not comfortable revolving the offense around a guy who can't crack 180lbs.
