1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

NFL.com "New Dolphins coach Joe Philbin emerges as the big winner..."

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Good to see the media acknowledging the organization for moving in the *right* direction. Praise instead of criticism.

    Read more in the full article: http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/08/13/new-dolphins-coach-joe-philbin-emerges-as-the-big-winner-in-the-ill-fated-ochocinco-error/?module=HP11_hot_topics
     
  2. shouright

    shouright Banned

    22,845
    8,861
    0
    Dec 13, 2007
    Yes.
     
  3. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

    6,771
    1,680
    113
    Mar 15, 2009
    Alabama
    i liked everything except for when they said the dolphins will probably be very bad this year. lol.
     
    dolfan7171, Sleepy and Bpk like this.
  4. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Yeah, I was offended, then sad because I realized it could be true.

    Sometimes it's good to hear the world outside of Miami's perspective. But sometimes it sucks, just like Chad Henne.
     
    pennphinfan likes this.
  5. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

    5,826
    2,535
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    Los Angeles
    yeah, well, chad henne will start more games than matt moore will this year.. so there's that...
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Well, look at it this way, the franchise put up with Marshall, who was doing the same stuff Johnson did, just over a longer period of time, despite all of the talent it still did not help us win all that many ballgames anyway.

    As for being awful, it is possible, we have a lot of questions and a front loaded schedule, again, our season pretty much boils down to the first month of the season which is one of the reasons why I'm not in favor of starting Tannehill in gm #1 as I'm utterly tired of our season being over by November.

    That is to much to ask of fans imo.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  7. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    41,124
    14,469
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    I agree. I dont think we'll be "very bad" as the article states, but I dont think we're going to be very great either. I'd say were probably a 7-9 or 8-8 team again this year while everyone adapts to the new systems, and we find the right personell. We'll see though I guess. I just dont have high expectations, and I'm ok with that since its a whole regime change again, I understand that... but I just don't think were going to be as bad as everyone says we are.
     
  8. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

    5,790
    2,699
    113
    May 8, 2008

    The organization had no choice on Marshall. He had guaranteed money in his contract and was making 10 mil a year to boot.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Well, if one recall at the time of the BM trade, Ross said they were lucky to be able to trade him otherwise they were going to waive him if they couldn't find a trade partner.

    As for the offense, what we are heading for is a 20 yd box around the LoS, and there is no Wildcat to save our asses this yr, this is why our season may look quite bleak by November.
     
  10. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    20 yds is being generous, 12 -15 is more like it. Hopefully the defense and ST will pick up the slack.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I don't think the Dolphins are better off for having signed Chad Johnson. Ian Rapaport himself said it would be ok as long as you "don’t stunt the growth of younger players by giving him a ton of reps, etc"...well to my knowledge Chad Johnson has been claiming a full course of 1st team reps from the start so yeah he has been taking reps away from younger guys.

    Cutting Chad does send a strong message about what will be tolerated and what won't, and I like that. But, right now a big faction of your most important players don't like that message. And it remains to be seen to me whether Philbin was able to handle the difficult situations Chad Johnson presented with enough aplomb to get those veterans to accept his hard message. Like I said before a lot of players may look at those interactions on Hard Knocks and his chat with Dansby where he never brought up criticism for Dansby's radio appearance but then later blasted him for it to the media, and they might not be very impressed. Those were difficult situations, some of which may have had no truly ideal way handling, brought on by the presence of a player as difficult to handle as Chad Johnson.

    So no I don't think Miami did the right thing signing Chad.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    96,490
    49,356
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I worry a bit about this, I'm thinking that Philbin is very consciensous to the point that he will keep working on smoothing this thing out with the vets as time continues to pass..I think he has to pschologically continue to work them after this to become one unit who wants to play for their coach.
     
    dolfan7171 likes this.
  13. bberg

    bberg Squid

    193
    43
    0
    Jul 6, 2012
    North East
    I died when I read that. Classic.

    However, this is the first year of "rebuilding" where I am content with a meteocre season. New Coach. Franchise-able QB. Solid RB. Just need to put the pieces together.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,345
    38,059
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I don't know why we should consider Philbin a winner, because his hand pretty clearly got forced. He pretty much had to take a hard line on Johnson or else risk being labeled any number of unflattering things, fair or not.
     
  15. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,703
    21,570
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Actually, Philbin got bailed out by Chad's actions this weekend. As CK said, Chad was a never a fit here, ESPECIALLY with HBO giving him a stage to act like a clown and be the disruptive force he was born to be.

    My bigger concern is, why did we sign Chad in the first place? Was this a Ross move to drive ticket sales? Or did Philbin really think he could reform this clown while trying to rebuild the team?

    If suspect this more a PR move and that Philbin was gifted the opportunity to cut him before more damage was done.. The entire season of Hard Knocks would have focused on Chad and his antics...Now the team (and HBO) can focus on rebuilding this team and supporting our rookie coach.
    We don't need a diva WR distraction during this process. It's not like we are anywhere near a playoff caliber team this year, with or without Ocho Headbutt /
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    96,490
    49,356
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Because he makes you think he has a kind heart, who loves football and who works hard, he has talent, so you give him a chance, didn't give up anything, but forgot one thing, he's not as smart as he says he is.
     
  17. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,703
    21,570
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Well, on the flip side of things, if the original intent to sign Chad was one of PR by Ross/ Ireland, then Philbin just won a major battle.. It may not be apparent to everyone, but this could be used as leverage if ownership tries to push an agenda for political / non football reasons. Just sayin..

    Doesn't make too much sense to trade one diva WR then pickup another, during a clear rebuild process.
     
  18. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

    8,875
    8,690
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    Springfield, Ill.
    I'd say this is overstating things a bit.
     
    Larry Little likes this.
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Yeah but sometimes the more you fiddle with something the worse you make it.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  20. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    20,950
    9,766
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Alexandria, VA
    I agree with those saying it's pretty early to call Philbin a winner in this situation. It remains to be seen if there will be any long-term implications on the locker room from all this.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    That's an interesting way to look at it.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    That's what makes him such a challenging player.

    If a guy is just an a-hole then he's relatively easy to handle. You keep the leash short and the carrot right in front of his nose. Everyone in the locker room recognizes that they're a-holes so you never have a locker room problem if you treat them poorly. The ones that are just a-holes but REALLY talented, that gets to be trouble, see Santonio Holmes. But Chad isn't a Santonio Holmes from a talent perspective. Yet if he weren't talented at all, again that makes things pretty easy. First sign of trouble, he's gone. Those guys tend not to have the confidence level to be trouble anyway, and they never get locker room backing because the locker room respects talent probably most of all even more than hard work.

    Chad Johnson is one of the most difficult players in the NFL to handle because he's talented, respected, a good person AND an a-hole that crosses too many lines. Not something I would have saddled a 1st time Head Coach with, especially since we're already taking on the challenge of Hard Knocks.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Well if "blasting" has been used as a word to describe what Karlos Dansby did with the organization over the release of Chad (it has) then I think the word fits with what Philbin said about Dansby to the press.
     
  24. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

    8,875
    8,690
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    Springfield, Ill.
    I wouldn't consider either statement a "blast," FWIW.

    Here's the other thing: Chad has some physical talent, but he hadn't shown enough in the preseason to warrant maintaining his growing radioactivity. Roberto Wallace has had more on-the-field value to the team to this point. You can only put up with so much whilst waiting for things to get better, IMO.

    One final point. I'm a little skeptical of the idea that players had grown so attached to Chad as a teammate in 60+ days that they were mourning his loss on the locker room. I think this is more a defensive reaction to the general idea of a short leash.
     
    Larry Little and Fin D like this.
  25. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,703
    21,570
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Not if you look back a bit at Ross and his track record.. Last year, shortly after signing Reggie Bush, his mug was all over billboards.. I don't know if I believe that our strategy to develop Bush as a primary RB was fully Ireland's, or if he was strongly advised to sign a new face of the franchise.. This year, who is the face of the franchise? Who is the personality that is going to sell tickets?

    Again, this is pure conjecture on my part, but from everything I have seen, a personality like Johnson is the worst type of fit for Philbin and this rebuilding process. Philbin needs to come in and take control of the team. He is instituting a brand new offense, a new D, and is facing uncertainty at the QB / RB/ WR position.

    Chad's predictable and idiotic outcome may work in Philbin's favor, long term.

    1) It send a clear message to the non football people such as Ross that you better let me handle my business and build my team on merit, not ticket sales.
    2) It shows authority and decisive action.
    3) It exposes malcontents like Dansby and gives the coaching staff a clear idea of who can potentially create locker room issues.
    4) It shoots a sense of urgency down the spine of guys like Vontane Davis that their starting jobs are in jeopardy if they don't get with the program.
    5) It allows the coaching staff to re-educate those problem players or cut their losses quicker.

    Taken from a broader perspective, Philbin is the winner here. Hands down.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    96,490
    49,356
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I don't believe Ross had anything to do with Chad.
     
  27. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,703
    21,570
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I believe Philbin's words on the issue. There is no reason to think Philbin was lying here.

    Does that sound like someone that was sold on Chad Johnson? Sounds more like Philbin was treating Chad like a child, knowing full well that Chad would eventually screw up. After watching Chad disrespect the organization during his press conference, walk in to a staff only meeting and just clown around, do you really think Chad impressed Philbin so much that we offered him a shot during a rebuild? Especially with HBO filming camp? With Chad's future wife about to cash in on a reality TV program that could get free exposure on HBO Hard Knocks? Sounds like a Ross PR move, not a sound coaching / Ireland decision.



    http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp...-philbin-says-chad-johnson-fit-miami-dolphins

     
  28. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,703
    21,570
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Read my post above and tell me that you believe that this was purely a football signing.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Pretty clear at the very least Karlos Dansby was in mourning. I think it was also pretty clear Sean Smith was in mourning but he was smarter about it and every time he was asked just said no comment.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I don't think Joe Philbin is a liar and I think he meant every word, in a sense. However, there is absolutely a reason he would lie about whether this was because of one incident or because of a pattern. The Dolphins needed to claim that it had nothing to do with the arrest otherwise they open themselves up for an NFLPA claim in the amount of $925,000 for wrongful termination. Teams are not allowed to terminate a player as punishment for an off field incident which falls under the purview of the NFL Commissioner's office and the Personal Conduct Policy.

    The fact that his statement was written out for him on a piece of paper showed everything, as it was obvious the Dolphins' compliance people had to check through the statement and make sure all necessary points were covered in order to prevent a grievance. In Joe's mind I think he had no problem with saying those words because he knows that the small margin for error had a lot to do with Chad's past and also his epic fail press conference. But if not for compliance I don't think that statement would have read the way it did.
     
    Bumrush likes this.
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I believe it was.
     
  32. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,703
    21,570
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Thanks for just demolishing my theory.

    I presumed the contract allowed for quick and easy dismissal, but this gives us a better perspective in to the legal ramifications.. Although I stand by my assertion that it was only a matter of time for Chad and that this could be a blessing in disguise.
     
    RGF likes this.
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I think that's an interesting point though...that it might have been better to nip a bad thing in the bud now before it could do more damage to you. The problem is, it's already clearly done some damage...and that to me means it was a bad signing by Jeff Ireland.
     
  34. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,703
    21,570
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Is it damaging to expose malcontents on the team?

    Short term damage and bad PR - Yes
    Long term team unity and coaching perspective = Win

    Philbin wins. This was his first issue and he dealt with it swiftly, and in the process found out a little more about some of the "veterans" on this team. That is a win if you ask me.

    I am also on the assumption that this season is a wash. If we were aiming for the AFC East or had a true playoff caliber team, I would tend to agree with your perspective more.

    Let's not assume that Philbin did what everyone else would have done. Do you think Cam Cameron would have stood up to Dansby? He may not have had the balls to release Chad in the first place...
     
  35. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

    18,425
    6,346
    113
    Dec 5, 2007
    clearwater, fl
    The F Bomb press conference and Hard Knocks coverage of it gives the Dolphins pretty good cover on this one, imo. Even crashing the coaches meeting, while harmless, could be too
     
  36. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

    26,079
    11,883
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    If you're referring to Dansby as a malcontent, I think that's a little premature based on a single incident. He's been displaying pretty good leadership since Philbin arrived. and even if you take into consideration his statements after CJ was released, it's still hard for me to think of him as a malcontent. people took what he said and blew it out of proportion because it's preseason and we overanalyze every word.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I agree with Disgustipate though his hand was kind of forced on this one. He didn't make some big decision that he had to lose sleep over. Lozada has a big gash on her forehead and already gave taped and sworn evidence against Chad. He's sunk.
     
  38. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Because he backed up what he said less than a week before?

    He was asked if behavior could affect Chad's job , and he said yes , and then it did swiftly , but he met with Chad before he made the decision.

    No hollow words , that is a positive for a coach and organization imo.
     
  39. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,703
    21,570
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    The message wasn't to Chad though.. Chad probably doesn't even make this roster..

    The message was sent loud and clear to Dansby when Philbin stated that disagreements should stay in the locker room. If anything, this episode helped reinforce that idea.

    I see Chad as an irrelevant clown with no long term commitment to the team or our future plans. A possible (best case scenario) stopgap with our weakened WR corp. But long term? These actions helped Philbin send a message with little collateral damage.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,462
    151,893
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Chad Johnson was not only going to make the roster, he was going to be a starter, until he got arrested. That much I'm 99% sure about.

    And no I don't think there's anything loud and clear about saying something to the press in a press conference Karlos Dansby will probably not even hear. Philbin should have told Dansby directly during that chat that he expects those criticisms to be kept in-house. But according to Dansby, he didn't.
     

Share This Page