I expect Jordan to line up all over the place on passing downs. Wouldn't be surprised to see him lined up at OLB on Wake's side and vise versa. Engage the OT and back off into coverage with the other guy coming. The possibilities are endless.
I understand the theory of wanting him to rush the passer as a much as possible, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing to use the complete skillset to shut down an opponents strength.. Could you expand on why you don't want him doing other things for the defense?, certainly I can see that if we're talking about Cam, but Were talking about a different skillset.
It's not that I don't want him doing the other things you mention, they're all intriguing ideas but I'd prefer he grow into that hybrid all purpose guy over time as opposed to rushing him into it this year. He's coming off of surgery (no upper body lifting), missing OTAs, and of course he's a rookie. Having him show up late and try learning 2 or 3 positions in a crash course will be extremely demanding, both physically and mentally. I doubt he sees a ton of reps with the first team, so we're talking 2nd and 3rd team reps and there aren't very many of those to go around, especially for a guy learning two positions. If we had a gaping hole at LB and/or DE then it'd be worth the risk perhaps. But we have the luxury of not needing any of our rookies to come in and contribute right away so we can afford to bring them along slowly. I think we're better off letting him sic the QB this season, once he establishes himself as a pass rusher then we can move on to the more exotic stuff. JMHO, I said Tannehill would need a year or two and I couldn't have been more wrong so who knows?
Jerry was barely serviceable last year. Now that Thomas is actually practicing I fully expect him to make the leap over Jerry at some point (best 5 play).
If he plays in the style of Von Miller or becomes as good as Aldon Smith and DeMarcus Ware, I'm okay with it. An interesting piece from our own alen1: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...orize-tom-brady-help-dolphins-compete-in-2013
I don't think I'm smart enough to know what can be done with his skillset, his size/agility ratio is something I haven't seen before, there may have been a few other like Peterson or Lawson who could do some of the same descriptions, but not as fluidly as Jordan.
According to PFF he was 24th out of 54th in pass blocking. He was actually pretty decent in pass blocking. In run blocking he was pretty bad.
yeah I see your point, I'm just not sure how to approach it from a developing standpoint, givin him a little bit of everything without overload can have it's advantages...it's a good question, train the kid to be a complete defensive overall weapon, or cater your program to accentuate the Kracken in him?
It was a good article by Alen. The coverage ability is off the charts for a guy built like this, the length only enhances the space covered, topped with athleticism, more space, we know the kid can catch the ball, imagine him going down the seam against Hernandez, reaching up with vertical and length snagging it with his hands, and then have the balance to pivot and return the pic....I don't want to miss that.
24th is the very definition of serviceable. What's the #'s for guys who played at least 75% of their snaps? They brought 2 guards in so you got to think they are trying to improve on Jerry while planning for Incognito to leave in FA.
I said it before and after having time to think about it, I'll say it again: Dion Jordan will be to our defense what many of us thought Tavon Austin would have been to our offense. An athletic freak that can play multiple positions allowing the coordinator to be as creative as possible.
Having a guy who is a pass rusher that can do other stuff is beneficial. It's not going to help his sack numbers, but that's not the most important thing, the overall defense is. The Dolphins look like they are building around an ability to disguise blitzes and screw up blocking schemes through sugaring gaps and having Nickel packages with 3 or 4 guys who can rush or drop into coverage instead of two. Look at a defense where Pittsburgh, where their edge rushers have a lot more responsibilities than simply lining up wide and getting upfield. James Harrison was a top edge rusher while only rushing the passer a little less than 60% of his passing down snaps. He could have been a more consistent top sack number guy, but that's less important than the overall defense.
Would love the conversation on this specific topic to continue...If I look at his complete skillset and what it has the potential to excel at, outside linebacker duties is what I envision, not full time D end.. GM, are you saying that's what you want, Work him at Dend??
It would obviously be best if Jordan could do everything. I think the issue is more about the most effective way to develop Jordan. Is it better to have him specialize in one area first or is it better to throw everything at him right away? It would probably depend on Jordan. I don't think we can answer the question here.
There was an article about Dion Jordan in PFW's Draft magazine. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but he said that he preferred to play standing up and coming off the edge. I think he said this in one of his post-draft interviews as well, either for NFLN or the Finsiders. If you remember back when Cincinnati first drafted Michael Johnson, they tried to develop him as a stand-up, OLB at first. I think Jordan is a pretty similar player to what Johnson was coming out of college. And of course we had the strong rumor that Miami was prepared to offer Michael Johnson a big contract at the start of free agency, but he was tagged. I'll see if I can dig up the exact quote later tonight - I know I've posted it on here before in one of the draft threads. I did manage to finagle Reds tickets for tonight so I probably won't have it until very late.
People might have their individual preferences and opinions, but I'd be shocked if Dion Jordan is primarily a defensive end. There's I think a pretty clear fit within this defense, and his skillset at Oregon doesn't point towards that. I don't think he'll be down in a 3-point stance that often. I think the real question is what % of his passing down snaps he's rushing.
I kind of think....Egnew is one player that was hurt by the Hard Knocks thing. I think it might have killed his confidence. One of the reasons I think the MMA training helped....
Doubt it hurt him. His confidence was going to hit a low no matter what when he discovered how little he knew about how to be a professional football player. It hurt the fan base, though. They have ideas about him that don't necessarily meet with reality. Under different circumstances, nobody declares a 3rd rounder a complete bust just because he doesn't play as a rookie, especially when there are legit players ahead of him. But because of Hard Knocks, fans lack the normal patience. If you really look at how snaps are divvied out between the positions, and who was getting the snaps at which positions, Rishard Matthews' being inactive for most of the year was more ludicrous than Egnew being inactive. Egnew had Fasano and Clay ahead of him and the third guy had to be a blocker, and so that guy was Jeron Mastrud. Rishard Matthews sat the bench while the Dolphins marched out the likes of Legedu Naanee, Anthony Armstrong only 8 days after being claimed off waivers from a team that felt he was so worthless they cut him, Jabbar Gaffney only 25 days after being signed from the land of the unwanted, Armon Binns only 6 days after being claimed off waivers from the team that felt he was worthless enough to cut mid-year, etc. You almost got the feeling the Dolphins were ready to sign Bill Parcells' homeless friend and start him at receiver, anything to dig into Rishard Matthews' snaps. You want an 'ouch'...that's an 'ouch'. But nobody cares. They like Matthews. There's blatant optimism about him.
where is the disconnect for you from what he did at Oregon and what you think Coyle has in mind for him?
I get what you're saying but I don't feel Michael Johnson & Dion Jordan are similar players other than their length and pass rush ability. Johnson was a little stiff and lacked the COD ability to play in space from what I recall. He's best suited as a downhill guy. If Cincy tried to develop him as a stand-up OLB first and we're copying some of what Cincy did then that would seem like more of a reason to expect the same with Jordan. Johnson's inability to convert to OLB shouldn't be a reason to give up on trying such with Jordan who has already shown the ability to play in space and drop in coverage, something Michael Johnson never to rarely did at Ga Tech.
Cincy has been successful applying pressure by sugaring the gaps the past few years, so Disgustipate's notion is likely spot on. I can't think of a prospect in recent memory who's better suited for such than Jordan. For those who don't know, sugaring the gaps means overloading the right side and showing blitz to create confusion, indecisiveness, and protection issues. The best chance to beat the chess masters of the game like Brady is to play a better game of chess ourselves by making Tom's pre snap reads and post snap decision making as difficult as possible. The key with defenders like Jordan is it allows us to disguise our looks b/c he can show blitz but effectively drop in coverage, plus at 6'7 has the length to disrupt passing lanes. With Jordan in the mix we can really push the blitzing ability to the max by bringing corners and nickel DBs more often b/c Dion can drop and cover split ends/Hbacks and receivers. Our secondary totaled 4 sacks last year and starting linebackers saw just 7, so my guess is we'll see that number increase now that we have a real confusion maker which we lacked last year with Misi, Dansby, and Burnett. Heck, all of our linebackers now have the speed to show blitz but get back into coverage. Pressure could come from anywhere and everywhere and have less potential to get burned by it. I for one am excited. We should do a better job dictating games and in turn hopefully it allows us to play faster and attack better.
Dolphins were sugaring the gaps last season. Its not necessarily about overloading a certain side, but making sure the two guards have to account for pressure in both A-gaps, which leaves the tackles without any help.
Personally I think it's a great combination- the ability of this defense to shut down the run on 1st down like CK mentioned and then create confusion and havoc on 2nd and 3rd & long in passing downs with Wake, #3 overall pick Jordan, and a pair of PFF's highest rated 4-3 pressure linebackers.
yes I know that. I merely hinted at the potential to take it further and improve its success by bringing in better suited personnel, namely a pass rusher who can drop in coverage which is entirely different than a 4-3 backer who can drop b/c Jordan's pressure ability will draw greater attention and respect from QBs and Olines, in turn creating more successful blitzing opportunities for everyone else.
I didn't mean for my post to imply that. Simply that I think Jordan will being playing the position Cincinnati tried Michael Johnson at. You're spot on that Johnson is a better downhill guy. I also agree that you can do different things with Jordan. Merely meant to imply that I, like you and Disgustipate, think that Jordan is going to be doing something much differently than just simply pass-rushing from a 3-point DE stance.
Here's the Jordan quote from PFW that I was talking about this morning: "I feel more comfortable when I stand up, but it all depends on the situation. I feel I could do both, playing with my hand on the ground and also play on my feet [2-pt stance] with coverage. I'm probably more valuable when I'm standing up, and I'm able to do a lot of things." Jordan, like Michael Egnew, also did some MMA training prior to the Combine. He worked with Jay Glazer and Chuck Liddell about utilizing proper leverage. The article also mentions that Jordan thinks he could play around 260lbs without losing his speed.
Sugaring the gaps is not just about isolating tackles in 1 on 1's. That's a shortsighted approach b/c you're leaving out the impact of disrupting QB presnap reads as well as creating post snap confusion for him. If a defense can win the pre snap read game then there's a decent chance they can win post snap as well. That's significantly more important than leaving a tackle w/o help.
I don't undersrand how anyone can rationalize Jordan being our de. Not with our scheme. To me, he is obviously our SOLB. I think he fits that position in our defense so perfectly.
AAAAAAAAAAAAND my respect for Jay Glazer shot up about 50%. Seriously, I didn't know the man knew his stuff when it came to MMA.
He and Randy Couture are business partners as well... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/28/sports/football/28glazer.html?ref=sports&_r=0
Nickel DE is a good place to start IMO. Let him edge rush and run TE stunts with Odrick the way SF does with Smith & Smith. In the base defense he's probably best suited for Misi's spot at WLB.
I dunno TP, sounds good but there's only so much teaching a staff can do in one training camp/preseason. It might be Jordan who ends up being confused.
