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Discussion in 'AFC East Rivals' started by GARDENHEAD, Jan 11, 2010.
Meh...look where the RG and RT are lined up. From this angle it looks like the WR is lined up with them and if he's not he may be 6" further back. My line isn't perfect, but it's close and shows that his foot is about where the lineman's hands are. A little further back, but not egregious.
Hey, how about that PI call against the Jags? Or the Jesse James "no" catch"?
6"? Dude is about 4-5' off the LOS.
Receivers must be on the line, and the only ones who are allowed to be staggered in their stance are lineman or attached ends. Any flexed or split ends must be on the LOS.
*Hopefully they finally get the catch rule straight soon and simplify for less judgment calls. James, IMO, made a TD catch vs NE because he got both feet (knee actually), snagged the ball, began to bring it down, and then in a secondary motion reached across the goalline. Play was over then, and the balls movement when it hit the ground in the EZ was irrelevant.
The actual line of scrimmage is the back of the football. Only the center and TE are "on" the LOS. Then there is the neutral zone and the front tip of the ball is also the LOS. In this picture the defender is maybe off sides. The WR in question is ~6" back from the RT judging that his foot is about at the back of the RT's helmet.
Anyhow, it's not blatant and there is subjectivity to exactly where everyone should be because it's not like there are lasers out there showing the LOS.
I don't want to sound like a dick, but you don't have to explain to me the detailed rules of football. A receiver, flexed or split end, who must cap off the tackle, is not allowed to be staggered off the LOS like a lineman which is based on the outside foot alignment of the lineman next to them closest to the football.
I always enjoy outside the box mental exercises (especially when bias is involved), so picture the teams flipped here. I heavily suspect if that was the Patriots who ran that play to score on 4&Goal before the half, you would be hounding the **** out of them, and claiming the refs are in Belichick's back pocket.
There's no grey area here. It was a missed call, and an illegal formation.
He capped off the tackle. I'd bet that 50 out of 100 plays in the NFL look just like this one. Meaning someone is back an ~6" or more from the LOS. And no, I wouldn't be upset if the Pats lined up this way. They probably did the entire game anyhow. Here are clips from each teams first drive. I circled where there was at least a 6" difference in where they lined up. Now, either one was offsides or the other wasn't on the line. If I went through the entire game I could probably pull up many examples.
And in each example they are lined up with the center and the football, not the slightly offset stagger of the guards and tackles.
No they are not. In both examples the WR's are not inline with each other but slightly off. Since that's the case then one is offsides or one is not on the LOS.
Those WR's are NOT staggered off the LOS like guards and tackles. Back to the original discussion of that 4&Goal, that WR was staggered and therefore it was an illegal formation.
You're being ridiculous, and are frankly incredulous to think anyone but the Patriots are subjected to favorable calls on occasion.
I've stated repeatedly that the refs miss calls. If you think the refs aren't clearly biased towards the Pats, however, you're not watchinf enough football. lol
My point is, this particular call is pretty consistently inconsistently called. Why? There is a lot of subjectivity to it. The LOS is a concept and not written in stone. If you want to get anal about what the LOS is we could measure it to the millimeter and players would be off the line or offsides on every play. But that's not going to happen. If you watch the play in question the WR asks the ref if he's lined up OK. The ref must have said yes. No?
Here's a great piece from PFT:
Were the Eagles lined up in an illegal formation when Nick Foles caught a touchdown pass on a fourth-and-goal trick play? Not according to the NFL.
A league source tells PFT that the league views it as a judgment call, not a call that was clearly right or clearly wrong.
The question is whether the wide receiver was on the line of scrimmage, in which case the formation was legal, or behind the line of scrimmage, in which case the Eagles only had six players on the line and were in an illegal formation.
The official thought the wide receiver was lined up close enough on the line to be covering the right tackle, and as a result the league doesn’t believe the Eagles got the benefit of a bad call.
LMAO. That X is so far off the LOS.
Did you see him ask the ref if he is OK? Do you think there's a conspiracy between him and the ref? Do you think the ref missed the call? Do you agree that it's subjective? I mean, I guess there's subjectivity on 99% of all calls, but this is something that goes on 1 out of 2 plays. He was covering the tackle.
Man what the duck did I resurrect.
So does anyone think New England is anywhere close to being done? I think as long as they have Brady and Belichick, they will still be there. There was talk about them disbanding with the ESPN article, but I can't really see that happening, at least not for a few years. They did lose their defensive coordinator, but they weren't that great on defense to begin with - and they still almost won the super bowl.
Yeah they haven't had the best free agency, losing a few key guys, but they added some guys as well, like Jeremy Hill, Jason McCourty, and Cordarelle Patterson. My guess is that Belichick and Brady put whatever turmoil they have aside and focus on winning, and they probably have at least two more super bowl runs left.
No matter their QB, as long as Belichick is there and they cheat they will always be a favorite to win the AFCE.
Their defense was top 5 last year. Their defense has been phenomenal since 2001.
Garden...I'm going to remove this bullseye from your chest and take over this thread.
I am proclaiming that the Pats are done. No more Super Bowls for them starting 2018. I see too many cracks. They may still get to the playoffs because I see more cracks among the other AFCE opponents, but their days of dominating the NFL are OVER!!
(Please let this happen)
While I can agree that the days of dominating the "NFL" may be over, their cracks aren't as big as we hope.
- the AFC is weak, I don't see anyone beating NE this year. I really thought JAX dropped a huge opportunity to upgrade their QB to give them a great shot to dethrone the Patsies in AFC. Who else will contend? Pittsburgh (nope), KC? (nope)
- the best teams (outside of NE) are in NFC, so I can see New England making the SuperBowl again and losing again
Well you have Brady saying he just wants to feel appreciated which implies he doesn’t.
Then you have the Pats letting go his best receiver, his best running back, and his best o lineman, not really trying win for the guy it seems..
The biggest thing (besides cheating and the refs) that has helped the Pats be so dominate is their cohesiveness and stability. In 18 years they've had one HC and one starting QB. Since 2011 they've had the same OC and DC. In the last 18 they've had something like only 4 OC's and 4 DC's. In that same period of time, and if you include interims, the Dolphins have had 9 HC's. And I'm not going to look and see how many DC's and OC's.
Anyhow, the Pats were always thought of as BB's team. After this last season, I'm not sure if I think that anymore. It seems like Brady and Kraft have teamed up against BB in some ways. I think that cohesiveness id dwindling. Kraft made BB get rid of Jimmy G. Did BB hold Butler out of the SB out of spite? To show Kraft and Brady that they can't win without him? Who knows, but I think the signs are there.
As far as who can supplant them in the AFC, I think there are a few. Steelers are definitely in play. KC has shown that they can beat the Pats. The Ravens and Jax have the defenses that tend to keep the Pats in check. (IMO, the Jags were robbed last year against the Pats). No one in the AFCE will stand a chance against them (Now that I've said that the Dolphins will go 14-2...lol) so they will make the playoffs again. And most likely have a bye, again.
From year to year a lot of things change in the NFL. Well, except for the Pats. However, I think some other dark horse AFC team will challenge them next season. I mean, the Jags went from 3 to 10 wins, for example.
(And before I get the typical closet Patriot fans claiming that Brady is GOAT and BB is a genius...I think Brady is a HoF QB and I think BB is a great coach. BB in particular is a great defensive mastermind. Brady is average athletically. Highly competitive. Really smart. He has definitely gotten better over his 17 seasons. However, I think the cheating has definitely given them both that extra edge in order to be thought of in that GOAT category. And I, for one, will not give them that title because I just don't now how good they would have been without the cheating.)
I wear the bullseye with pride, but I am happy to include you if you like.
I don’t think you can have this much discontent on a team and survive the grind of a season..
I don’t ever doubt Brady but I do think his pride is hurt..I’ve never bought into that narrative that his skills were diminishing over the last five years narrative, I knew his training techniques, I could see his foot quickness wasnt getting slower and his velocity wasn’t diminishing, but I think he does t like his head coach anymore..
check this big Fu## you to Tom hardy by his organization..
sorry tom, were gonna get rid of your best receiver in brandon Cooks, your young great left tackle protector in Nate solder, and your best utility back who was really good and effective in Dion Lewis..
thats crazy man, and its BS..
And for some reason, none of this bothers me.