1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

[NEW] Con's Keys to the Game - Phins/Cardinals

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Muck, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

    14,525
    22,244
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Sunny Florida
    beemerdaddy and HULKFish like this.
  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

    15,886
    8,901
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    NY
    Add to that: improve the secondary

    If we can't keep up with Fitz and Boldin, we're screwed
     
  3. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

    14,525
    22,244
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Sunny Florida
    They've got their work cut out for them, that's for sure.

    But if Warner isn't harassed (Key #1), it won't matter how good the coverage is. He'll dissect us.
     
    HULKFish likes this.
  4. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,159
    16,337
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    I think you'll see that we can't even if we try our best. The thing may be to let them get theirs in terms of catches, but just limit the YAC and take out the other members of the offense as best we can.

    But, as Crunch alluded to, you cut off the head and the body falls. Breaston will surprise if we are not careful. If we double either big guy, or play a umbrella coverage he will eat us up at 10-15 yards.
     
    azfinfanmang likes this.
  5. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,935
    3,458
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    Thanks Con, that analysis was great.

    Regarding our secondary keeping up with the Wrs, all i can say is blitz baby blitz. We have to get to Warner and in a hurry. Roth, Porter, Crowder all have to rush the QB. Bring on corner and safety blitzes. Warner has to play his butt on the grass.
     
    Conuficus likes this.
  6. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,159
    16,337
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    Herein lies the dilema to me. We want to do that to get Warner shaky, yet if we do chances are we get burned by a crossing route as we have a large gap between the secondary who will likely play a good deal of a shell, and the LB's we have scattered about trying to cover the flats and short range stuff.

    To be honest if I were the DC right now, I'd be wroking these guys with a 3-3-5 and try to use a safety as an extra defender who can matchup with a slot receiver or TE when necessary. We may run into trouble against the run but we can substitute a good bit to keep some girth in the game. Matt Roth could be asked to play tight on the strong side, right over Langford's shoulder and that way Langford can pinch down and we would actually ge away with ahving 4 down lineman essentially on the line and have Porter and or Crowder or Ayodele on the field as well as the formations and personnel dictate.

    Maybe we'll do that at some point during the game, I don't know.
     
  7. late again

    late again Senior Member

    9,397
    2,104
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    With regards to Boldin and Fitzgerald:
    I kind of assumed that when you wrote about keeping Warner off balance, etc that you were suggesting the rest would take care of itself??
    One thing, Con..I think you're being too kind to Edgerrin. I don't think he's dead in the water quite yet, however he hasn't tasted 4+ ypc since he arrived in Arizona.
     
    Conuficus likes this.
  8. sgtphin

    sgtphin Season Ticket Holder

    1,522
    188
    0
    Nov 25, 2007
    Clay City, Indiana
    Love the write-ups, Con. Very detailed and lucid explanations to go along with intelligent observations as to what needs to be done, for both sides. Keep up the good work.
     
    Conuficus likes this.
  9. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

    557
    335
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Gainesville Florida
    LUG's keys to the game:

    Score more points then the other team by the end of the game. :up:

    (and run the ball using a fullback)
     
    Conuficus likes this.
  10. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,159
    16,337
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    Yeah, basically thats it.

    James is still a very deceptive runner. But, the O-line doesn't provide very clean running lanes for him either. Many times he is surrounded by guys and never really hits stride. It could be that his timing is off b/c he has slowed down a bit or b/c the O-line isn't exactly filled with road graders either.
     
    late again likes this.
  11. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,159
    16,337
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    Well then.............don't I look a bit wordy now?
     
    late again likes this.
  12. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

    28,030
    13,840
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    So. Cal
    Bro, there is a good Cardinal fan that will be posting some thoughts to your article. :wink2: He goes by the name of salty.
     
    Conuficus likes this.
  13. salty

    salty Cards Fan

    54
    113
    0
    Sep 11, 2008
    Surprise Arizona
    Establish Steve Breaston

    He will establish himself on SP. This offense doesn't need Breaston to step up. If you can contain him, your are flirting with disaster relying on single coverage to either Larry or Boldin. This should be the last of your worries. Contain him on special teams, and let him beat you offensively. If you shut down Larry and Q, and Steve is your main threat, I would consider that a victory for your secondary. My two cents on this subject.


    et Gabe Watson back in the middle

    Hes injured, and will not be playing in this game.


    Get the “Edge” on track

    He will pound out 3-6 yards even if you do stop him. Your hope here is to let edge run, and deal with our running game vs the passing attack. We are a dangerous passing team, hope that we plan on running on you.

    ). Create pressure on Chad Pennington

    Ask the 49ers about pressure. We have motors on our dline, and depth. We will be fresh the entire game, but with two key injuried to the NT, your strength should be running up the gut.


    The problem they have is that they don’t have one true great pass rusher or guy who honestly requires a double team on passing downs which will help the Dolphins if they keep protection in for Pennington. There isn’t a guy who can consistently pressure the edge in a 3rd and long situation. They use the team approach and it works to a great degree. Bertrand Berry is a guy to watch as he still flashes skill to get to the passer, but he is getting up there in years.


    We have a probowl de/ dt in Darnel Docket who specializes in sacks. Due to lack of depth fatigue hit him late in the season. With added depth this year, expect chad to know Darnel very well at this end of this game. Do not underestimate this d-line, it is a strong point of our defense.


    Kade
     
  14. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,159
    16,337
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    Breaston is the guy on shallow stuff and crossing routes that will cause us problems. I am going on the assumption that Boldin and Fitzgerald will be either bracketed or we we will use a shell to take away the deep routes, which leaves the underneath routes open as there is a greater distnace between the LB's and secondary - perfect for crossing routes.

    Breaston isn't the foremost thing we'll do, but if we do stop him from getting those routes and catching short passes it will hurt your offense as Lenoard Pope isn't excatly scaring the hell out of people at TE, so someone has to patrol the middle for you.

    I doubt we'll shut them down, just hoepfully contain them a bit in terms of YAC etc. It is like the rule with Shaq, let him get his and shut down everyone else type of deal.


    I would rather shut edge down as it means your offense is one dimensional. And honestly Edge won't get 3-6 even if we do stop him, he hasn't averaged more than the high 3 in terms of YPC since he got there - so if your statement was true then his YPC would be higher than it is. He is what he is a good guy a finding a hole, but he just can't get downfield like he used to in his younger days.


    Darnell Dockett had more sacks last year than his entire career before that. And even then he wasn't making steady strides; he fluctuated from one year to the other. (had a total 6 sacks combined before last year) I would like to know if Pace was lining up on the same side as Dockett would when he played DE for you guys in certain schemes. The reason I ask is that Pace has his career year and it may have helped to buoy Dockett's stats. Dockett is a player who live on quick twitch moves for a DT, but he is lacking in enough brute strength to play the run every down and can get washed away by combo blocks. He uses his hands well, but can have issues with shedding mauling O-lineman who grab and manipulate him. Dockett is best when allowed to work his way upfield, although he isn't a guy who causes other teams to gameplan specifically for him.

    Honestly, Berry has been far more consistent over the years in applying pressure on the QB.

    And as far as the D-line goes I would hardly say they all have motors when you just selected Calais Campbell who is well known for being on the soft side and taking plays off. Those criticisms have been levelled on both Alan Branch and Gabe Watson alike during their careers and both often need prodding to keep motivated to play. I don't think the D-line is as vaunted as you make it to be, but they are not slouches either.

    Applying pressure to a SF attack that lacks punch at the WR which means you won't be doubling anyone is easier. As is attacking an offensive philosophy that believes in minimal protection for the QB whilst flooding the field with receivers. Add to that the massive experience of J.T. O'Sullivan and you may have gotten a sack or two from the those 3 things right there. The Dolphins do not do those same things aside from having probably worse receivers than SF does. Other than that you won't see much limited protection for the QB and we will routinely have either one back or a TE and RB in for protection regardless - it is what Dan Henning does here.
     
    Fin Fan In Cali likes this.
  15. salty

    salty Cards Fan

    54
    113
    0
    Sep 11, 2008
    Surprise Arizona
    We were getting to the qb with a 3 man front, running a prevent defense. This is a fact.
     
  16. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,159
    16,337
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    I'm sure it does happen, especially if the defense is adequately covering the receivers, but it doesn't happen all that often. Ofetn times a prevent can make the QB hold the ball too long and thus a sack is caused or some other play occurs. But, it is more an issue of getting a WR open and the QB holding the ball than the quality of the pass rush. On a play like that 2 players will get doubled in some capacity, leaving only one man with the opprotunity of a one on one - then he still has to make the play. Having a 3 man front only implies that there are 3 men with their hand sin the ground. The Cards do bring pressure from the OLB's or a DE who stands up on the outside.

    My basic point is that a 3 man line has little bearing as to many people are actually rushing the passer, as does a a 4 man line. Stunts, drop backs, pop zones, delayed blitzes, coner or db blitzes etc all change the number of people rushing and have little to do with a 3 man front. And, if you are referring to the end of the game sack by LaBoy then all I can say is that it was a great play. He beat Jonas Jennings out of his stance and the QB basically said here I am, let me move up one step and allow you to reach for the ball. LaBoy did his job, and the QB helped him, nonetheless I have seen plenty of people completely miss the QB in that scenario.

    We also get pressure from a 3 man front, as does any 3-4 team or one that employs the D-lineman to play that front. They tend to have D-lineman who are versatile enough to play that way.


    Gabe Watson is a space eater but he isn't a stud. He still takes play off and doesn't play full tilt the whole game thats for sure. Calais Campbell hasn't shown anythign different than what he was in college so far. He isn't a force on the D-line and you can run at him. He was responsible for 1 asst tackle last game, thats it.

    As far as the D-line dominating the LOS Iwould beg to differ on that. In the last game alone you gave up an average of 5.4 ypc and they couldn't keep running as they were behind in the game and had to throw to try and make up some ground as well. Gore only got 14 carries for the game. Even if you take away the 41 yard gain he still had 13 carries for 55 yards - 4.23 ypc. Not crazy good but not anything that indicates that the D-line was doing a good job at stopping the run. I'm sorry I can't get on board with that one.

    I have already stated that the fronts will vary and cause some confusion for us with regads to communication issues. But the defensive line is not the dominating entity you are making them out to be, not from what I have seen so far.

    Edgerrin James is the same as all RB's they each have runs that gain little yardage or result in a negative play - that is the nature of the beast. It applies to all RB's so using that to explain his average is very poor at best. Name any RB out there and we'll go through any game and we'll find runs like that - doesn't matter the opponent or day of the week.
     
  17. salty

    salty Cards Fan

    54
    113
    0
    Sep 11, 2008
    Surprise Arizona
    Come on now, I am not saying Edge is elite by any means because he is not. But, he is a solid back. 3-6 yards per carry is good, but not all yards per carry are dictated by the RB alone. The o-line has a lot to do with a running backs performance. You are right though with all running backs having stats similar to those I posted. Most of my comments are homer based, and I will not deny that. I do enjoy talking football though with you.
     
  18. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,159
    16,337
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    No, I don't solely make projections based on college stats or games, but they do indicate the type of player you get in many ways. They are a useful tool in projecting and noticing tendencies that may or may not carry ove to the pros.

    The stats presented don't necesarily back up your claim, it would however offer these things:

    That you rely on your active players to make a majority of the plays. Once again dansby and Wilson are the backline defenders most responsible for helping the team win or be competitive.

    I did watch some of this game, not all of it b/c I knew we would play them this week and I have so that the two OT's you faced last game are a little different than the ones you'll face this game. Carey and Long can both be described as a mauling OT, they don't want to finesse you, they hit you, punch well, like to keep their hands on you and rely on power to jolt you off your line to the QB. Jonas Jennings and moreso Staley are not very physical blockers - truthfully they are finesse players who use technique and position moreso than redirecting or manipulating the DE. Our OT's are much more physical than the 49ers are.

    The defense you have is active and relies on quickness, up the field penetration and numbers to get the job done. It doesn't mean there is an issue with your defense, just that is your style. The fact you don't have a double digit sack guy typically means you don't have someone worth doubling. It doesn't mean you apply pressure, it just means that you get it from a variety of places - as will we this year, as we have no one of that ilk either. Porter's best days are two years behind him now.

    But your OLB's are not powerful players and can we washed if the OT simly has strong hands or uses his punch well. Then it becomes how well can the OT shift his feet to stop the necessary inside move to try and get some leverage and momentum by the DE. Your own RT Levi Brown has issues with this move and has since college. He can get out to the up the field move, sets well, but deosn't get moving again as well as you'de like and he has a tendency to come up in his stance making him more suseptible to the power moves of a DE willing to get his nose dirty. Kendall Langford will give him issues, as I think Kentwan Balmer did last Sunday. He isn't a bad player, it is just that he doesn't play as well as you'd expect from him at times and it allows for mroe pressure to be exerted on the QB tha should be. Couple that with Lutui's penchant for disengaging his blocks a little early rather than showing a killer instinct make the right side of the line opne to physically dominat DE's like a Mario Williams or others in that mold to have better days.

    James is still steady, but Hightower or another back (not J.J. Arrington) needs to be shown the field more to allow more explosion from the run game on draws and screens, stretch plays and tosses. A less than physical O-line could assert itself on a big D-line by moving the POA around more than you guys do presently.
     
    salty likes this.
  19. salty

    salty Cards Fan

    54
    113
    0
    Sep 11, 2008
    Surprise Arizona

    Our line does great for pass protection, but is still coming into its own with its running game. Duece and Levi are huge maulers, they do very well in creating protection, but still havnt perfected the running game. Gandy and Wells are solid in both aspects of the game but are not stars by any means. Lyle our 2 year center is getting better each play. This kid will be something special.
     
  20. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,159
    16,337
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    I never said that Dansby is nothing special and would like to see where I have. I juts said there isn't anyone who requires a double spcifically on your defense in terms pass rush, thats all.
     
  21. salty

    salty Cards Fan

    54
    113
    0
    Sep 11, 2008
    Surprise Arizona
    After re reading your post, I must admit I overlooked the word powerful. You are correct, sorry about that.
     
    Conuficus likes this.

Share This Page