New Coach and blow it up

"texanphinatic wrote:

Meh. Not getting it done. If you like him, I won't begrudge it. But - even accounting for injury - I don't really see improvement from either him or the team.

Again...Brock isn't Gase's guy. Gase had to be convinced to bring him in.

"danmarino wrote:

Again...Brock isn't Gase's guy. Gase had to be convinced to bring him in.

Then he shouldn't have let himself be convinced. Either he had enough good opinion to think he could work, or not enough chutzpah to tell the FO to get a real QB for that spot.

It was a good bet before the season that a backup would likely see good time on the field. Rolling with THill was going to be a gamble, and the best the team could come up with was Brock Assweiler, the guy who a team gave up draft picks to be rid of and couldn't buy a look in Cleveland.

I'm sorry if im just not super excited for year 4 of "maybe better than Philbin."

I guess I don't understand the flak Gase is getting for Brock. Brock is a vet that knows the system. He's a backup for a reason, that reason being that he isn't effective for an entire season due to his limitations. If he could be effective over a full season, he'd be a starter.

"resnor wrote:

I guess I don't understand the flak Gase is getting for Brock. Brock is a vet that knows the system. He's a backup for a reason, that reason being that he isn't effective for an entire season due to his limitations. If he could be effective over a full season, he'd be a starter.

From my point of view, we should have drafted a QB high either in 2017 after Tannehill went down (and you KNOW how often I said that here) or in 2018 at latest. The flak Gase gets from me for both Cutler and Brock is precisely that he believed so much in Tannehill that he wasn't willing to create some serious competition at the QB position. Draft is a crap shoot so you can't be certain you got the right guy, but Tannehill is only an average QB so at very minimum you create competition at that position.

You do NOT just have a vet backup in Moore or Osweiler when Tannehill is the best QB on your roster. And I don't care how often Gase likes to talk down to non-pro's about their lack of knowledge. First, there are a lot of HC's that would have played that differently, and second we're seeing evidence his decisions on this are biting us in the ass. Gase should have lobbied hard for the FO to draft a QB high. For me, that's where the flak is coming from. Can't speak for others.

I said it last year and I'll say it again, I wish this FO would have at least brought in CK to look at. Maybe they would have fallen in love with him, maybe not, but at least they kicked the tires. I doubt he would have played much worse than Cutler and he would have (potentially) the system learned by this season's beginning.

Saying that, and putting aside all the conspiracy theories, I do wonder why he hasn't been signed by another team. I mean, look at the Bills for example...he's 100% better than anything they have fielded at QB this year. There are other teams, including the Dolphins right now, that could use a QB like him. If I had to take a guess, my guess would be that he's just not mentally into the game anymore. He went from a pretty big dude to scrawny and his GF has turned him into a SJW. I think football hasn't been high on his list for awhile and teams see this and shy away.

"resnor wrote:

I guess I don't understand the flak Gase is getting for Brock. Brock is a vet that knows the system. He's a backup for a reason, that reason being that he isn't effective for an entire season due to his limitations. If he could be effective over a full season, he'd be a starter.

Rule of thumb for backups is you want them to be able to go 2-2 if forced into action. The reason it's only 4 games is if they have to play more your season is over anyway so it doesn't matter who you have

"adamprez2003 wrote:

Rule of thumb for backups is you want them to be able to go 2-2 if forced into action. The reason it's only 4 games is if they have to play more your season is over anyway so it doesn't matter who you have

For this shitty team I agree but I do seem to recall a guy named nick Foles last.season that won the superbowl.

"resnor wrote:

I guess I don't understand the flak Gase is getting for Brock. Brock is a vet that knows the system. He's a backup for a reason, that reason being that he isn't effective for an entire season due to his limitations. If he could be effective over a full season, he'd be a starter.

Maybe we should put Brock’s sample size of numbers up against other backups and see where they stack up.

"pumpdogs wrote:

For this ****ty team I agree but I do seem to recall a guy named nick Foles last.season that won the superbowl.

Sure, and name the last five before Foles. The problem is, the next one up is likely the Dolphins '72 season. Backups just don't carry teams into the playoffs very often.

"KeyFin wrote:

Sure, and name the last five before Foles. The problem is, the next one up is likely the Dolphins '72 season. Backups just don't carry teams into the playoffs very often.

Tom Brady in 2001 was a backup and won the SB. Also, Kurt Warner in 1999 was a backup and won the SB. Otherwise, you have Trent Dilfer in 2000, Jeff Hostetler in 1990, Doug Williams in 1987, Jim Plunkett in 1980, Roger Staubach in 1971, and also Earl Morrall with the Colts in 1970 (played in the SB, as opposed to helping the '72 get to the SB but didn't play in it).

So that's 9 backups (with Foles) that played in and won the SB out of 52 total, or 17.3% of SB's were won by backups.

"cbrad wrote:

Tom Brady in 2001 was a backup and won the SB. Also, Kurt Warner in 1999 was a backup and won the SB. Otherwise, you have Trent Dilfer in 2000, Jeff Hostetler in 1990, Doug Williams in 1987, Jim Plunkett in 1980, Roger Staubach in 1971, and also Earl Morrall with the Colts in 1970 (played in the SB, as opposed to helping the '72 get to the SB but didn't play in it).

So that's 9 backups (with Foles) that played in and won the SB out of 52 total, or 17.3% of SB's were won by backups.

How many backups had to play a majority of season games for their team and didn't even make the playoffs?

"resnor wrote:

How many backups had to play a majority of season games for their team and didn't even make the playoffs?

Have no idea.

"cbrad wrote:

Have no idea.

Yeah, I'm sure. Lol. I just think that's a better way of looking at it. I don't really care all that much about how often the exception to the rule happens, as that just causes people to hope when they shouldn't. I'd rather see how often teams with backups seeing significant playing time aren't successful. That's a better gage of what to expect.

"cbrad wrote:

Tom Brady in 2001 was a backup and won the SB. Also, Kurt Warner in 1999 was a backup and won the SB. Otherwise, you have Trent Dilfer in 2000, Jeff Hostetler in 1990, Doug Williams in 1987, Jim Plunkett in 1980, Roger Staubach in 1971, and also Earl Morrall with the Colts in 1970 (played in the SB, as opposed to helping the '72 get to the SB but didn't play in it).

So that's 9 backups (with Foles) that played in and won the SB out of 52 total, or 17.3% of SB's were won by backups.

Sure, but just think about your list-

- Brady has started 17 seasons since that point
- Warner started several seasons w/ other teams
- Dilfer bounced back and forth between starting and reserve
- Williams started basically that whole year (I was a Skins fan at the time in like 5th grade....woot woot!)

While these guys may have qualified as "backups", they certainly weren't backup QB material....they were starters waiting to get the nod. Heck, Williams had the best first half of Super Bowl football ever with a showing that will probably never be eclipsed; definitely not the norm. Plunkett and Staubach were before my time as a fan so I can't comment there.

My point is that it's a rarity for the 2nd option at QB to lead you through a significant part of the season and do well in the playoffs UNLESS it's a young up and comer like Brady. That's basically my argument for starting Fales as well- him being unproven is equally a good and a bad thing since defenses can't fully prepare for him or know his full capabilities. We know what we have with Oz and he's pretty good, but definitely not good enough for this particular offense with the 30-something day one players we have remaining.

"danmarino wrote:

Do you even know what's going on?

Yes...you're defending Gase. And hes a trainwreck. And I'm pointing it out and you dont like it.

"Redwine4all wrote:

Yes...you're defending Gase. And hes a trainwreck. And I'm pointing it out and you dont like it.

What should our offense look like when missing 3 starting oline, three starting receivers, and a starting QB?

WTF do people want him to do?

"pumpdogs wrote:

For this ****ty team I agree but I do seem to recall a guy named nick Foles last.season that won the superbowl.

Admittedly, he was excellent in the SB but after taking over from Wentz, he had several games where he was bailed out by his teammates due to poor play. Cbrad has pointed out a few instances but it isn't that common where the backup has to play more than a few games and continue to play at a 1st team level, particularly not when you have less than half of your starters on O playing.
I will say that I want to see Fales now though

"Patster1969 wrote:

Admittedly, he was excellent in the SB but after taking over from Wentz, he had several games where he was bailed out by his teammates due to poor play. Cbrad has pointed out a few instances but it isn't that common where the backup has to play more than a few games and continue to play at a 1st team level, particularly not when you have less than half of your starters on O playing.
I will say that I want to see Fales now though

Yea I'm ready.to see.fales also.To bad Faulk is hurt.

"pumpdogs wrote:

Yea I'm ready.to see.fales also.To bad Faulk is hurt.

Same here, I'm ready for Fales as well.

"Redwine4all wrote:

Yes...you're defending Gase. And hes a trainwreck. And I'm pointing it out and you dont like it.

You could have just said no instead of making stuff up.

"pumpdogs wrote:

For this ****ty team I agree but I do seem to recall a guy named nick Foles last.season that won the superbowl.

Yeah that's realistic. Point to the exception not the rule. Let's see the new Miami wish list....a QB on par with Rodgers and Brees even though colleges have only produced one such QB in the last decade (Mahomes) and a backup good enough to win the Superbowl in case he gets hurt. Why stop there. Why not demand that our GM field a team of 22 hall of famers and every backup should be all pro caliber and while were at it we Might as well change the dolphin emblem to that of a unicorn.

"resnor wrote:

What should our offense look like when missing 3 starting oline, three starting receivers, and a starting QB?

WTF do people want him to do?

And our starting tight end, with absolute garbage behind that

"adamprez2003 wrote:

Yeah that's realistic. Point to the exception not the rule. Let's see the new Miami wish list....a QB on par with Rodgers and Brees even though colleges have only produced one such QB in the last decade (Mahomes) and a backup good enough to win the Superbowl in case he gets hurt. Why stop there. Why not demand that our GM field a team of 22 hall of famers and every backup should be all pro caliber and while were at it we Might as well change the dolphin emblem to that of a unicorn.

Well obviously a good coach would have at least starter quality players as backups. It's the easiest way to tell which coaches are good coaches.

"djphinfan wrote:

And our starting tight end, with absolute garbage behind that

I like O'Leary a lot! Omar happened to interview Fales a few days ago with random questions, and one of them was "Who would you want with you on the team in a bar fight." He thought for a few seconds and said, "O'Leary, definitely O'Leary. You can't bet against that guy."

"resnor wrote:

Well obviously a good coach would have at least starter quality players as backups. It's the easiest way to tell which coaches are good coaches.

It's so simple really. Amazing how all 32 teams can't figure it out