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Ndamukong Suh / Albert Hayneworth: A Comparison

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MonstBlitz, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I know everyone is tickled pink over this signing. Miami Dolphins will win free agency again! By dumping tons of money on a DT. Well lower your cheerios and let me take aim. My teeth are floating.

    I'm sure many of you will rush to tell me how crazy I am to compare the Haynesworth deal to Suh. Haynesworth was a bum, no work ethic, etc. etc. etc. But if you travel back in time to before the Redskins signed him, you would fine fans saying the same things about Hayneworth that they say about Suh today. A dominant player. A game changer on defense.

    The deal? Miami reportedly will sign a deal with Suh that could be worth 114 M. The Haynesworth deal was for 115 M.

    Haynesworth was in trouble for stomping on dudes before being eventually traded. Suh? Nuff said.

    Both the Lions and Titans respectively didn't try very hard to resign. Why not?

    Age - Everyone keeps saying this deal is different because Suh is in his prime. Haynesworth was 1 year older at 28 when he went to Washington.

    Albert even had some advice for Suh recently -

    Well, it looks like the first bit of advice fell on deaf ears if this deal happens. Philbin is as lame duck a coach as it gets.

    As for the defense, I'll leave it to those on the board who know more about schemes than I do to cite whether Miami and Detroit's defenses are identical or not. This is probably the one area where Albert went into a much worse scenario than Suh did. I think he went from 4-3 to a 3-4 right? I could have that wrong though.


    If this happens, and it sounds like it will, I hope it works out. But I'm not doing backflips if and when this happens. Because we've been down this road before. Landing the biggest free agent during free agency, only to suffer the same mediocre results when it matters. While the teams that build through the draft steal the glory. Hope I'm wrong. Please everyone feel free to explain to me why this is different, I'm all ears.
     
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  2. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Not sure why you say the Lions didn't try very hard to sign Suh ?
     
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  3. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    We have not been down this road before. Suh is a potential hall of famer.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lions did try hard to bring him back. Hell they still are.

    Also you are completely ignoring work ethic. Haynesworth had work ethic issues in Tennessee. Suh never had those problems in Detroit. He's as dedicated as dedicated gets.
     
  5. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Pair that dedication with Wake's and you have some serious synergy.
     
  6. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    The lions offer was 2 million less than ours lol and their state has 4.25% income tax. They did try to get him, but Suh would make more playing in Florida and plus our bid was slightly higher.
     
  7. NolePhin15

    NolePhin15 Well-Known Member

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    No one in their right mind would choose to be a millionaire in Detroit over Miami.
     
  8. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    You missed my Cheerios.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wtf blitz...


    He wanted to be here..the most dominat force in the game wanted to be here..

    Kong..
     
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  10. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Good point. When you give someone that much guaranteed money, you'd better make sure he has a strong desire to win a title, or he could very well take that money and call it a career.
     
  11. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Even before that big pay day Haynesworth had questions about being lazy, taking plays off, and not putting in enough work in the offseason. Suh has never had those red flags. Suh is a workhorse. Never takes plays off. His work ethic has never been questioned. It's a joke some people are even trying to compare really.
     
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  12. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    The Lions offered to make him the highest paid defender ever. And their officials are currently insulting Miami in the press while hoping Suh will reneg and come back to Detroit before Tuesday.

    It's a great acquisition. Hopefully we structured the contract to where it isn't too insane at any point.

    - posted via Tapatalk -
     
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  13. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Why compare a player with no drive to a player that plays like he is insane? Remember the "God" of Football couldnt get Fat Hayneworth to try...
     
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  14. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Lol if anything Suh plays with too much emotion. Can't believe some are questioning his drive and work ethic.
     
  15. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    haynesworth was great for about 2 years got a huge contract, and then got fat and lazy. i don't see that happening with suh.
     
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  16. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    So we're going to ignore that Suh has been a pro bowler since his rookie year (save for his 2nd), while Haynesworth was not until season #7?
     
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  17. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    This.
     
  18. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    Haters will hate, but that's ok.

    I have my own agenda and opinions. Love this signing!
     
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  19. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Yes because he is a Dolphin so we need to find ways to trash him... ;)

    Honestly i saw the same thing living in CT with Red Sox fans. You get so used to finding ways to lose that you are always the pessimist. Then once you win the fan base becomes the spoiled brats who expect to win everything..
     
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  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    They hate us cause they anus.
     
  21. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I do like the fact that Miami was able to target a free agent and land him. And that Suh apparently wants to be here.

    I just seriously question whether this is the right formula to building a winning team. Dumping tons of money on the DT position. I guess time will tell.

    Also, yes, it's clear Detroit is trying harder than the Titans did to sign Hayneworth. But they still aren't offering as much as Miami. The current team has more information than anyone. They are in the best position to know what a player is worth. So anytime a competing team outbids the incumbent team, you have to be concerned.
     
  22. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    How is the Lions cap space compared to ours?
     
  23. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Also, anyone who thinks I'm a Suh hater is wrong. If Miami signs him, I will cheer for him just as hard as I cheer for any other player, and I'll hope he is the magic piece that gets this team out of mediocrity. I'm going to need to see it to believe it though.
     
  24. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    here it is the cry baby thread.....unreal
     
  25. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    If it's cap related, it still points to how the team values Suh. They could certainly clear cap space if they felt he was a crucial enough piece of the puzzle.
     
  26. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Or maybe their cap constraints are greater than ours. They currently have two players already making close to the tops at their position (Calvin and Stafford), while we do not, and yet they are still offering to make Suh the highest paid defender in history.
     
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  27. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Read my post above yours.
     
  28. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    So that's how you view this thread? A cautionary look in the direction of a similar deal that ended badly for a team and I'm being a "cry baby?" Ok.
     
  29. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Ok, even ignoring that, there's no hard proof that Detroit wouldn't match or beat our offer. Maybe, just maybe, Suh would rather play here.
     
  30. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    They offered him $12M more than JJ Watt, who is BY FAR the best defender in the NFL IMHO...and I'm guessing they thought that was a great offer that would keep him...they probably looked at the other teams interested and their cap situation and figured they were VERY safe at that number...they couldn't have known for sure we were going to unload the salaries we have so far.

    The fits they're throwing and bashing the Dolphins in the media show they're pretty butt-hurt about losing him. I'm not sure that paradigm applies here.

    EDIT: When that incumbent team is friggin' DETROIT...all bets are off. If it were the Pats, Seahawks, Steelers, etc, then I'd be more inclined to agree. Who the hell really WANTS to live in Detroit?
     
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  31. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Heres the thing:

    Suh has been dominant DOMINANT....since he started playing football. Every game in Nebraska....every game in Detroit. He just last year missed his first practice.

    Theres no real comparison.
     
  32. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Ok guys, I'll concede the point completely that Detroit isn't trying hard to resign him. It looks like they are. So let's get past that. Is throwing $60M guaranteed in 3 years at the DT position going to get this team over the hump? I'm not saying it won't, but I'm saying I'm not convinced. Have we ever really seen this work? I hope it does. I won't be bitter and ***** and complain all offseason if/when this happens. But I'm not going to fool myself into being ecstatic. I've made that mistake too many times.
     
  33. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    there is no need for a voice of reason on the eve of this signing, if you want to compare suh with that lazy bastard....fine, but this comparison stinks from the get go
     
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  34. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Worked just fine for Green Bay. Ask them if Reggie White was worth it.

    IMO....in 99 percent of these kind of FA signings...Id agree with you. But Suh is so completely better and different then Haynesworth. Look at what its going to do for Vernon, and Wake.....whens the last time you saw Wake get to line up on a TE all the time. Vernon isnt going to see double teams. Suh had 8.5 sacks last season....while being doubled. Also...Watt plays DE....put Suh out there and Hed have very similar numbers to Watt I believe
     
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  35. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Yeah I am more excited to see how much this helps Wake.
     
  36. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Was Haynesworth really considered lazy with Tennessee also? Honest question. I don't remember hearing that. I just remember him being referred to much the same way as Suh is referred to. A dominant player. Of course there are big differences in their careers to this point, no 2 NFL careers are identical or close to it.
     
  37. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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  38. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    No one here could convince you it will work (nor should they be able to). No one can see the future. Have we seen this work? No, of course not. But when has a FA DT of this caliber (no, Haynesworth is not on the same level) under current market conditions ever been on the free market? (hint: never) There is no clear-cut answer, either you're going to be happy to add one of the most dominant defensive players to the team, or you're not (for whatever reasons). I personally am going to choose to be happy about it, because I don't see it hurting our chance of getting over the hump. Maybe it does, but I am not privy to the choices of that reality. So why fret?

    You can probably count on a single hand the number a times a player in his prime who has a HoF trajectory (and no injury history of note) has been a completely unrestricted FA (Deion Sanders and Reggie White come to mind, and that's it for me). No, neither of them got $60M for 3 years, and neither is a DT, but I would say it worked out fairly well for the teams they ended up with. Does that mean it will work out for us? No, but I'm going to enjoy the ride for now.
     
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  39. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    With a player like Suh its way beyond his own production. It impacts the entire defense. Teams simply can not double Suh and Wake. He clogs up the middle freeing the Middle linebacker up some. The increased pass rush helps the CB's. Its not simply adding a player when you get a player as dominant as him. Add him to Wake and you are going to keep OC's up all night trying to figure out how to stop both of them.

    Pats did the same with Wilfork. Other players on defense got attention from the media but people in NE know who the defense revolved around for years.
     
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  40. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I'm not going to be unhappy about it. I'm just going to remain neutral about it for now. Keep my hopes low and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    I'm enjoying the discussion with those of you who support the move. But I'm also wondering where those 21 posters who voted "NO" in the "Should NFL Teams Sign Superstars for Very High Salaries?" thread are. So far looks like I'm the only one sticking by my "NO" vote… :shifty:
     

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