1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

My view of this Dolphin's draft

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by rafael, May 2, 2011.

  1. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    Going into this draft we knew it was going to be the first one without Parcells being in charge and we knew the regime was probably on a short leash. I was worried that the result would be a draft that reeked of desperation. The easy thing would have been to over pay for a QB to appease the fan base and the owner. That would have also probably bought the the regime more time because they would have the excuse of a young, developing QB. As long as the QB showed promise any number of losses could be excused. But in the long run that would most likely have set the franchise back and not solved any problems. This draft was the opposite of desperation. They didn't over pay to move up and take a QB that would be a second rounder most years and they didn't reach for the QB the fan base had fallen in love with. (There's really no other description for taking a QB in the first that seemingly every team had a third round grade or worse on). Instead they stuck to their draft board and took players that could contribute now but more importantly built a foundation for the future. This has been my favorite draft of this regime's in that they took good/potentially great players that filled needs while also getting a few players that could potentially be play makers.

    Pouncy: I see him as a more athletic, but less powerful version of his brother. He isn't as able to muscle NTs/DTs at the line, but I do think he can develop more strength. I don't think his strength is poor mind you. I just think he has a tendency to stop his feet when engaged. I also think he is just as consistent as a snapper as his brother was. The difference was that Tebow's athleticism covered up the bad snaps while Brantley made even decent snaps look bad. The area where Mike Pouncey excels is on the second level. Last year we simply lacked athleticism on the interior line. He addresses that at either C or G. IMO a good pivot is vital for a good line and I see Pouncey as equal or better than his brother at the next level. That's a fairly high upside as his brother made the pro bowl as a rookie. At worst I see him being a very good or even elite G. I would prefer to get my guards with lower picks, but that's not a bad downside.

    Thomas: They traded up to get Thomas and the way the draft broke it would seem that they were spot on with their intel on the rest of the league. The big backs taken after DT were clearly lower rated prospects. Many of the experts had DT as the third best back behind Ingram and either Williams or Leshoure. I had DT as the third back behind Ingram and Williams, although I also liked Kendall Hunter quite a bit. Boomer described DT as a a more decisive Ronnie Brown. I agree that he's more decisive, but he still shows good vision and patience. I think he just shows a bit more burst to the hole than RB. DT is a strong inside runner with quick feet and good balance. I had said earlier that he was only pedestrian as a receiver, but looking at the videos many have provided, I think I was selling him short. I would now characterize his receiving abilities as a strength. His other main strength is his durability. His weakness is as an outside runner. I think his speed (or lack of) limits his ability to get around the edge. He also struggles as a blocker. I see him as a key piece for the offense they want to be. Last year they abandoned the run and didn't use their backs as receivers often enough. DT seems well suited to fill Peyton Hillis role for Daboll.

    Gates: Gates adds the speed element that this offense desperately needs to balance a back like Thomas. Most compare him to Mike Wallace as he has excellent speed, but is very raw. I like his hands and I think he catches well in traffic or after contact. I've seen that part of his game criticized, but I don't agree. Where I expect him to struggle is getting off the press and I see his route running as needing a lot of work. But I do think he can contribute immediately in a Ginn like role where he keeps the safeties back and provides some excitement as a returner. If he can show more consistent and instinctive hands than Ginn did then he can have a big impact on this offense. I wanted them to take DJ Williams here as I saw a move TE as more of a need, but I can't argue that Gate's speed on the offense and his return ability wasn't a great need.

    Clay:Here is the move TE I wanted. I was hoping for Virgil Green here, but apparently he had some medical issues show up that took him off the board for many teams. The book on him is that he's a jack of all trades and a master of none. That adds versatility to what has been an incredibly predictable offense. He shows good hands, adequate speed and nice quickness. His blocking is poor, but I've always believed that blocking can be taught. I would have liked more upside as a receiver, but at this point in the draft he was clearly among the best move TEs left. The key for him (and Miami) will be his ability to be a mis-match as a receiver. If he can do that then he'll have a huge impact on Miami's offense.

    Kearse: At this point in the draft you're looking at guys who probably won't make the team except on STs. Kearse is an athletic DT who seems to lack power. I expect he'll be one of those guys they'll try in different spots along the line depending on the package, but unless he shows something unexpected, will only make the team if he can contribute on STs.

    Wilson: He has an interesting background due to a first degree murder charge that he was acquitted of. The upshot was that he lost a couple years in jail while that was sorted out. His reputation is as a hard hitting safety, but again the key to his sticking will be his showing on STs.

    Overall, I'm very happy with this draft. I see a logical process and sound evaluation. I would have loved to get a QB, but when there isn't much available then you do more damage by reaching for a player that isn't worth it. I expect that they'll bring in a vet to compete with Henne along with a speed back like Sproles. I think that with better play calling, those pieces are easily enough to get us back to double digit wins. I think they envision an offense similar to 2008 where Grove provided a strong pivot and Brown/Williams provided consistent running. Ginn provided a deep threat and the offense had some nice balance. When you have that, you create the best situation for a QB and you can easily win a ton of games and make the playoffs. You can see how close the Jets have been while getting no better QB play than we have from Henne.
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Yep, VG had microfracture worries so Clay was the next best option on their board, I'd suspect because he did a bit more then DJ Williams stuff like running the ball out of the WC.

    Do notice the board played out pretty much how they planned for it to play out, which is good and bad.

    BTW, notice the similarities between this draft, and the 2009 Draft?

    And the differences between this draft and the 08 and 10 drafts?

    Tuna took meat and potato guys and with the high picks, the #1's, low bust potential picks, in 09 we took more risky picks (White, SS24,Turner, Hartline, Nalbone) then the usual late rd defensive back in 08 they took much safer picks like Merling and Langford, Murphy was a 3 yr starter at BYU etc.
     
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    37,921
    29,326
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    One thing that I think could be cool is the Dolphins going 4 wide on first down with both Thomas and Clay as wide outs. Could be a chance that could cause some confusion.
     
  4. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

    4,154
    1,218
    0
    Aug 22, 2010
    Raf, Very nice run down and agreed "again." The only thing I can add is that Thomas was recruited as a QB, and was the team's Wild Cat QB. Fits in with your Brown comparison but, he can actually throw.
     
    JMHPhin, djphinfan and rafael like this.
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    100,773
    54,137
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    He's got that prototype size to be that true WCQB we seem to be coveting and searching for...To be able to handle the pounding inside, with a somewhat of a legit passing skillset, he looks the part..

    man, are we really gonna continue to go there?....with him and Mr. Clay and Daboll, it sure seems their conscious of it and want to continue to evolve it...

    I'am all about it as long as Daboll understands how to use it..
     
  6. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

    4,154
    1,218
    0
    Aug 22, 2010
    I'm sure we will DJ. Our OL id already better, and I expect another piece or two to be added. So, the WC blocking is better. Put Gates outside and DBs cannot crowd the line like last year because we have a guy who can get him the ball. He is also a threat on a reverse.

    Fitting Clay into the equation could add some fun. Start him at TE, move him into the backfield with Thomas with either/or being the QB. I'm already confused. LOL
     
  7. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

    2,668
    877
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Chesapeake, Virginia
    I look for them to bring in a few more decent prospects from the undrafted free agents. Next year will be a better year to get a quarterback if Henne struggles.
    Ireland and company didn't make the popular picks in the draft, but all their picks fit a need and are good prospects.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  8. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    In looking at the rest of the teams in the AFC East. Right now I would put the Dolphins at the bottom of the list, regarding quality NFL talent on their roster compared to the Patriots, Jets, and even the Bills. Where the Dolphins are clearly at the bottom, is at the QB position and if something isn't done in free agency to upgrade the QB position. I think the Dolphins will finish last in the AFC East this season and will be lucky to win five games. Of course the one good thing that will come out of this, is that Ireland and Sparano will no longer be here and just maybe Ross will finally hire a GM and Head Coach who actually will know something about building a playoff caliber team in Miami.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    100,773
    54,137
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    You know what's interesting, thru the first 5 games of last year, we completely dominated our opponents on offense and defense..wasn't even close from a physical standpoint..I think we have to quantify that correctly when saying were gonna suck...I think the building of this team the past 3 years has set us up to surprise, were bigger, stronger,and younger than mostly everyone else, add this draft to the equation, and a couple of good free agents, I think your wrong JW.
     
  10. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,998
    4,102
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Nice point on coaching up Clay. I think it was Casserly or Lombardi or someone who was saying that TEs often come from nowhere to flourish because they have no real position coach in college. With TE you are definitely looking for more raw ability than refinement. Stick a true TE coach on them and watch them bloom. High hopes for the guy.

    I think Gates is my favorite pick of the draft, boy can MOVE. Being so raw I am not sure what kind of rookie impact he can have, but if he makes a few good plays and keeps the D honest he will have been well worth the pick. You have to respect that kind of speed, and unlike Ginn, Gates is not just a straight line guy.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    37,921
    29,326
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Clay is my favorite pick to be honest. Mostly because he can bring so many different looks due to his ability.

    I am excited about Gates because of his ability to kick return and hopefully he can do punts. I do like his quickness and speed. However watching his highlight film he is extremely limited as a wide receiver. I keep on reading on how he is more advanced than Knox, however I thought Knox was actually a decent route runner. Maybe that was because I was comparing him to Devin Hester.
     
  12. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

    5,525
    4,219
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    PA
    you know, im just gonna say it, this post is unnecessarily negative.

    5 wins? We won 7 last year and the only thing we've done is drop dan henning (WOOOO) for someone half his age, replace Ronnie and Ricky with a younger back, and kept the defense exactly the same.

    Its obvious you don't like Henne, and you're basing almost all of your opinions off that, but really, as bad as last season felt, we still won 7 games. I don't see an area of the team where we got worse. I don't see any reason to think we can't win more games next year. (ya know, as long as the refs don't steal any games like that Pitt game)
     
    GMJohnson and ToddsPhins like this.
  13. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

    2,148
    1,398
    113
    May 3, 2010
    Totally disagree drafting a young QB would have given this regime extra time. That card got used up trying to develop Henne. They did what they had to do by drafting for the run given Rickey and Ronnie FA and weak interior OL. Ireland showed his impatience by ending up with two less draft picks than he started with at the beginning of the draft. Got some solid players (hopefully) but no steals or pro bowl type players.
     
  14. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    what you call impatience, others would call smart drafting. Impatience would be moving up or reaching for a guy you desire who would've been there at our next pick or there after. Sorry, but that didn't happen. Taking a QB at 15 would've been "impatient", especially Mallett like many fans wanted. One or both of the players we moved up for would've been gone if we hadn't, and both of those players, Thomas & Clay, are important to what we want to do on offense. Giving up a 5th & 7th for your starting running back is smart drafting. Swapping a 7th to ensure getting your #2 playmaking TE is smart drafting. We're not trying to "rebuild anymore"; we're trying to "finish". Prioritizing extra picks takes a back seat to adding the final pieces of the puzzle when you're on the verge of being a contending team. You must hate the idea of Atlanta using 5 total picks to draft Julio Jones.


    I'm glad you know how these players are gonna turn out when no one else on the planet does. Pouncey isn't a pro-bowl type player? His twin brother was as a rookie but Mike has no shot? Thomas most definitely has the potential and talent to become a pro-bowler. Gates has the potential to become an impact 900+ yard receiver. Clay is one of if not the most versatile offensive player of the draft who has the talent and potential to become an integral part of our offense and its success. If anyone is more versatile, it's the guy we drafted 4 rounds before him---- Daniel Thomas.

    These were 4 massive needs: interior Oline, #1 RB, #2 TE, and speed WR. How you can remotely justify us not filling these needs with outstanding overall value is hard for me to comprehend. If you can tell me what players at these positions would've represented better value than what we drafted, then I'm all ears.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  15. mcioci

    mcioci New Member

    60
    14
    0
    Apr 20, 2010
    I agree 100%

    You are 100% correct. Great draft. Btw, Ireland didn't give up a 7th to draft Clay, all we Did was swap our 6th and 7th round picks for packers 6th and 7th round picks. All I would have done differently would have taken lockette and Devine with our last 2 picks. Then again we did need to take a flyer on a backup NT. I didn't want a qb out of this draft class, henne did well in 09 when we had an oline and running game. I'm convinced qb coach, henning and sparano screwed up henne last yr. Noticed henne aiming his throws instead of letting it go, I think it was because they had henna afraid to throw picks. Guess what happens when u play that way? Yep you end up throwing picks. Better yr this yr for henne, if he flops then u draft a qb next yr.
     
  16. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    and most of the players we were hoping for in the 7th are now all free agents, so we still have a shot at them.

    In essence, we actually only lost a 6th rounder, because if we had the 5th back, it probably would've gone to Charles Clay. A 6th to move up for Daniel Thomas is a no brainer.
     
  17. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I saw that as well and think it shows how good our talent level is. My impression was that teams adjusted and Henning didn't.
     
    GMJohnson and ToddsPhins like this.
  18. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

    4,154
    1,218
    0
    Aug 22, 2010
    Agreed. The 7th rounder is of little value. We move up 17 picks to fill our biggest need with the #2-#4 rated RB, give up a mid 5th rounder, and many are complaining. Give me a break.

    Or, better yet, give me who anyone would have taken, with the traded picks, who were better (combined) than Thomas?
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  19. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    You obviously were looking at another team and not the Dolphins if you are seriously trying to tell me that the Dolphins DOMINATED their first five opponents last season. They barely beat the Bills last year by a score of 15-10 in their first game. The offense hardly moved the ball in game two which the Dolphins won 14-10 against the Vikings, who were playing terrible ball early in the season. The Dolphins certainly didn't DOMINATE the Jets in game three or the Patriots in game four because the Jets beat Miami 31-23 and the Patriots actually dominated the Dolphins 41-14. While the Dolphins did in fact beat the Packers in overtime, 23-20 in their fifth game of last season. Perhaps you will remember that the Packers were playing with a lot of back up players in the game because of the number of injured players they had on their roster at the time. While I give the Dolphins credit for starting out last season 3-2. To describe any of these games as DOMINANCE by the offense and defense in just ridiculous.

    As a fan of the Dolphins since 1966. I would love nothing more than for the Dolphins to prove me wrong in my assessment of the talent on the team at this time. I have no problem with all the fans who tell me I am wrong and that the Dolphins are better than I project them to be. But until they show me that they are more than the mediocre team they have been for the last two seasons. I will continue to believe that Ireland, Sparano, and Henne all need to be replaced and a new GM, and Head coach need to be hired to effectively rebuild this team for the future. Being a fan doesn't mean that I have to turn a blind eye to the fact that the Dolphins appear to be falling further behind the competition in the AFC East and at the rate they are falling. It appears they may be the last place team in the AFC East for many years to come. I dare Ireland, Sparano, and Henne to prove me wrong, but I sure hope they do prove me wrong.
     
  20. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

    5,525
    4,219
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    PA
    You're joking with that first sentence right? Hes clearly watched more of the 2010 Dolphins than just about any of us on this board.

    http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?61535-Game-5-rewind-study-of-Chad-Henne..
    http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?61225-Game-4...Rewind-thoughts..
    http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?61060-Week-3-Dolphins-vrs-Jets..Rewind-thoughts...angry-turns-to-happy.&highlight=rewind
    http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?61048-Week-2..Dolphins-vrs-Vikings....Rewind-thoughts.&highlight=rewind


    We were unbelievably physical and fighting hard in the first five games. That Jets game was a brutal fight with us coming up short. Before the blocked punts we were very much in charge of that NE game too. Its actually pretty sad how big the score difference was considering we were in it at half time. We did dominate both the bills and vikes even if the score doesn't indicate it.
     
    ToddsPhins likes this.
  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    what he said.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  22. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

    19,893
    9,750
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Over Yonder
    Adding them makes that possible, but not needed. No need to line them up out wide when we have marshall, bess, hartline, and gates for that. Clay will play at TE or FB exclusively. I could see motioning Thomas out into an empty set on occasion.
     
  23. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    You can believe what you want. I never stated that the Dolphins didn't play hard and weren't physical in their first five games. All I stated was they were not DOMINANT in these games. How a team could lose two of these games by giving up over thirty points to both opponents and be considered DOMINANT in these games, is beyond me. If you want to continue to view losses as dominant performances by the Dolphins. I guess by your definition, the Dolphins were the dominant team nine times each of the last two season. I happen to prefer the type of domination when the team I am rooting for actually wins the game and completely shuts down the opposition. That is my definition of a dominate performance by a football team.
     
  24. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

    10,818
    2,210
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Very nice rundown on the draft rafael. I think the absence of Parcells will show right away what Ireland and Sparano have for us in the future. Now with a few aggressive FA moves hopefully this team will surprise alot of doubters.
     
    rafael likes this.

Share This Page