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My opinion we dont have a bigtime coach or Qb

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Nov 5, 2023.

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  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    1. My overall position hasn't changed. I said initially that I wasn't convinced he was an elite QB worthy of the #5 pick. However, I stated even back then that I thought he was at worst an above average QB who would have a good NFL career, barring significant injury.

    2. As I've explained NUMEROUS TIMES, most of the arguments I'm having with you guys FOR ME are NOT about Tua, per se. I find the arguments you guys use to be faulty, and so I argue against them. Combine that with the fact that this discussion has been going on for FOUR YEARS, we how have a bunch of underlying arguments also going. As we refer to posts made years ago, sometimes things get changed. It's like the game of Telephone. The sentence the last person hears is NEVER even close to what the first person heard.

    3. You guys then got your panties in a was saying that I was studying with trolls and arguing on their side. I "liked" too many of their posts. I tried to explain to you repeatedly over the years that FOR ME, clicking "like" on a post doesn't mean I agree with the post or that I agree with the posters overall opinion. I click "like" on posts because I think they're making a good counter argument, or they call something out I think should get called out, or any number of things that are not me agreeing with the point of the post, or the argument being made.

    However, I know that, just like with football, you have your "data set" on me, so my explanation will be rejected in favor of some numbers in an Excel spreadsheet.
     
  2. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    OMG he's still at "at worst an above average quarterback" despite being quoted NUMEROUS times otherwise.
     
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  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Unbelievable. We have the actual quotes to prove you said "at best" an average QB, not once but many times, and you continue to lie. Why can't you just be honest about your prior position?

    You still haven't answered the question: if Tua continues to play at an elite level is he an elite QB? You never disputed Steve Young was an elite QB despite Young never proving he could play elite without elite weapons in Tampa. Double standard for Tua.
     
  4. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, what are we supposed to do with a poster that says "I've never said X". Then he is presented with quotes of him saying X. No mea culpa. Later he repeats "I've never said X". What the heck are supposed to do with that?

    That is NOT the same as changing your opinion.

    BTW, At worst above average and at best above average mean nearly opposite things.
     
  5. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Reasonable people: “There sure is a lot of bias and hatred towards Tua from the media and some people here in the mains!

    Media and some here: “We’re not biased against Tua!”


    Also those same people:

     
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  6. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Call him out. And then again. And then again. And then again. And then again. And then again.

    Brings to mind broken record analogy.

    It’s become your mission. To me, from such a knowledgeable poster as yourself , it’s not a good look. Just sayin.

    Great win today. 7-3. The Jets look inept. Have a great thanksgiving.
     
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  7. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I actually convince myself that people will be embarrassed by getting owned so badly and stop doing it....
     
  8. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    What’s the definition of insanity?
     
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  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    There are some people who will never stop lying no matter the proof that they're lying. There are known conditions like that. Doesn't really matter if resnor exhibits that kind of behavior, the important thing is for the lies not to spread. And they will spread if not confronted.
     
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  10. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Armstead straight up BLEW his block on that last 3rd down that resulted in Tua throwing a wobbler out of bounds. Look at the play again if you get a chance. Initially I was all mad at Tua. Like WTF are you doing!? Thing is, Tua didn't call the play, and Tua didn't block air the way Armstead did. It was a HORRIBLE miss on the part of Armstead. Had he made that block, Tua would have had the time to do his thing. Obviously the turnovers were bad, but we're 7-3. I don't think we were ever 7-3 with Ryan Tannehill or Chad Henne or Chad Pennington for that matter. The defense is starting to gel at the right time, guys are getting healthy. We played a motivated Raider team today that came in with a .500 record. I guess technically we didn't beat a team with a winning record, but we beat a team that was on a hot streak. I'll take the win. Need Tua to clean up the mishaps and he's got to deliver when the game is on the line. As good as our defense has played, you don't want them deciding the game for us if it can be prevented. You give Patrick Mahomes 2:00 to score in the 4th and he's going to do it against our defense. We needed that third down bad and it didn't happen. Luckily we were playing against a rookie QB and we were able to escape today, but that stuff wont fly against the better teams of the league.
     
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  11. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    It is also kind of fun..... so I'm an insane sadist.
     
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  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Resnor, buddy.....we just about had this all sewed up. It's Jets week. It's turkey time. It's Miami Hard Knocks week. We're 7-3 right now and it's an amazing season. Did you really have to just sling more mud?

    How can I help you help yourself, LOL?!? I mean, seriously, I'm trying so hard to get folks to back off and just enjoy the ride the rest of the way through this season.
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! And that's why Matt Moore is the best quarterback ever...
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I am dying laughing right now and I cant stop. I get it, I truly do. But it's so freakin' comical that everyone cares so passionately about Resnor's opinion from years ago.

    Think about this for a moment- we're 4 years into an argument for the words "at worst" and "at best" (or 'below' average and 'above' average). We've had thousands of posts over what Resnor really thinks of Tua...why does anyone care that passionately though? Again, it's comical to me to see my friends bickering so fiercely over absolutely nothing.
     
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  15. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I think you captures it perfectly. Let’s get back to discussion. Debate. Not acrimony.
     
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  16. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    We are really splitting hairs here.
    It’s undeniable we have top 10 at both HC and QB. Enjoy it. Dont nitpick it. We havent had either In a long time. Much less both concurrently.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    THANK YOU KEY!

    I felt like I've been taking crazy pills. You are correct.
     
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Why are we bringing Young inti the conversation? When was I talking about him?

    I didn't get to watch Steve Young play. I lived in NH. We had 3 channels on tv.

    Wtf does it matter? Making up a strawman to argue more with me.

    Insane.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    One caveat:

    I believe Tua plays elite with elite weapons. I just don't think that his particular skills that are elite translate as well when he has lesser weapons. Like great, his anticipation is still the same, but the receiver isn't Hill, So it didn't have the same result. That's different than a guy with a cannon arm who is still able to throwb with the same velocity no matter who the receiver is.

    Please note: the previous illustration was in no way me trying to say the strong arm is better than Tua. Merely showing an example of what I'm trying to convey when talking about Tua and weapons around him.
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Do think Mike McDaniel needs to step it up here. Offense needs some wrinkles and honestly our short yardage situation is dire. But he's fine and growing.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see two coaches unemployed by the end of tomorrow - Staley and Eberflus. Also feel the Steelers have to fire Matt Canada at some point, right? Right?!?!??!

    Bills/Jets was a weird game. Bills utterly dominated, but it was oddly unimpressive, the Jets are just bad. It will be hard to swap on a short week (we play them Friday) but Zack Wilson can't start another game?
     
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  21. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Try to follow the argument. You're now (not in the past) saying Tua is playing elite with elite weapons. Good. What I want to know is whether you'd accept that Tua IS elite if he keeps playing elite. You persistently refuse to answer this question.

    The reason I brought in Steve Young is because Steve Young also played elite with elite weapons, but NOT without them. So if you choose to claim Tua is not an elite QB even if he keeps playing elite (with elite weapons), the rebuttal is why the double standard with Young. Follow? So once again, will you consider Tua an elite QB if he keeps playing elite?

    Answer yes to that and you'll have made a clean break from your previous position and I won't claim you're anti-Tua anymore, assuming you stick to that.
     
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  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    One could argue that Mike is a top 10 coach, but Tua has been elite this year. Hopefully he can remain elite down the stretch. We have some easy games, but also some potential barn burners. Have to keep up with the North teams and JVille in terms of seeding.
     
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  23. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    It's beside the point, but I never considered Steve Young to be a HOF QB. I think if he hadn't managed that one SB, he'd just be an also-ran, not even mentioned in the same breath as Montana.
     
  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    He came in a record 6 times first in passer rating. Statistically, adjusted for era, he's the most efficient passer ever, since the 1978 rule change. I think Young is the type of guy whose reputation will increase the more the NFL relies on advanced stats.

    It's like the use of wins above replacement in baseball influencing who gets MVP now — it's far more common now for the MVP to come from a team that didn't even make the playoffs. Young's stature should rise as the NFL also adopts more advanced stats, at least that's my prediction.
     
  25. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I'm not really that interested in the changing perceptions of past NFL players in modern times. I saw the guy play from the time he started at TB. I lived there so the games were on every weekend and of course, I got to see his career in SF because those games were frequently the national game. He was very good, but nowhere near the level of Montana.
     
  26. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Montana had a command about himself and the game. Get the statistic but seeing them play I agree with you over Young. He had the IT. Something stats don’t always measure.
     
  27. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So, who are these elite QBs putting up elite numbers with lesser weapons? I ask because I don't think they exist. And, if they don't exist, then what point are you trying to make? Tom Brady is a pretty good example as he played with and without great weapons through out his career and his stat lines followed. He's also almost universally considered the greatest QB of all time.

    Your cannon armed guy isn't going to complete many passes without someone open and able to catch the ball, no matter how hard he throws it. Do you think it is somehow easier to beat your man and get open when someone throws really fast vs with great anticipation? Or, that fast balls beat zone better that smart accurate ones? If so, what are you basing that on? If not, then what are you even trying to say?
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You added the word “ above “ so stop lying
     
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  29. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I guess you could say Aaron Rodgers. Who is also probably a first-ballot hall-of-famer.
     
  30. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Devante Adams
    Donald Driver
    Greg Jennings
    Jordy Nelson

    **and yes, first ballot HoF**
     
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  31. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Devante, yes. The others...I don't think they were that good. I think Rodgers made them look a lot better than they were.
     
  32. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    You are TOTALLY missing the point. The issue isn't even about Tua. It is about integrity.

    Let me break it down for you.

    If you wrote "I've never said the earth is flat" and I post a quote of you saying "the earth is flat", you were wrong. If you then again post "l've never said the earth is flat", you're lying. If you do it again, you're pathological. Not sure if I can make it clearer than that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
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  33. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think Resnor knows he's been wrong but his heels are just dug way too deep to admit it. Sometimes admitting you're wrong is really hard but it's the only way to be at peace. Tuanon will accept you with open arms whenever you're ready to let go Res. Peace brother.
     
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  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You guys are unreal. I didn't add anything. You can find quotes where I've said he was an above average QB. Again, the problem here is that you are calling me a liar, which I'm not.
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I would say the same thing about you guys. I've openly stated that Tua has done things I didn't think he would do. I've stated he's playing at a higher level than I thought he would.

    You guys want to keep arguing about me "lying" which is not at all what I've been doing.
     
  36. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you're lying about the way you feel. I just think you're wrong about Tua and you need to let this go. Even now, you mention the whole "if he didn't have Tyreek Hill" bit and then follow it up with "but if he had a rocket arm it wouldn't matter who he throws to." I just vehemently disagree with that take. The whole "rocket arm" thing is really stupid at this point. How many rocket armed, laser beam QBs have we seen in this league completely wash out after only a few years because they were either too dumb to figure it out, or just couldn't get it done regardless?
    Ryan Leaf
    Tim Couch
    JaMarcus Russell
    Matt Leinart
    JP Losman
    Jason Campbell
    Daunte Culpepper
    Brady Quinn
    Kyle Boller
    Jeff George
    David Carr
    Joey Harrington
    Cade McNown
    Akili Smith
    Heath Shuler

    These are just off the top of my head..."Rocket" (UGH) armed QBs that either washed out after a few years or just completely sucked as pros. I'm honestly just tired of hearing about the whole "rocket arm" $hit because it's really only a small part of the equation that makes up a complete Quarterback in this league. It's something that Tua detractors cling to because it's literally the only knock they can find on the guy. My issues with Tua have nothing to do with physical attributes or lack thereof. My problem with him is more towards how he performs in the guts of the game when everything is on the line. I'm not calling him a choke artists by any means, he's been basically 50/50 in those situations thus far. I want him to get to the point where if we are diving the field with a minute and change left, the confidence is there that we're going to get it done. So "IT" is still in question as well as durability which thank god, hasn't been an issue this year.
     
  37. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    There is a certain ex-President who did this and a certain ex-Prime Minister who also did it. Their lies seemed to spread.

    Sadly, it seems to be an acceptable thing nowadays.
     
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  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I hear you and understand why that would be frustrating. Your example doesn't work though because it's a constant- the Earth is flat means its always flat. There's no variance there and that's not what happened.

    It was more like: well, sometimes it curves so it's sort of flat. It's not really flat, per se, but more like flattish-circular. Sometimes it looks round, but then again, maybe that's just an optical illusion. Yeah, I think the Earth is flat-ish. Maybe oval is the better word since that's basically the sale thing as flat. But definitely not round....well, except on Tuesdays. Or when the moon is flat in the lunar eclipses, then we're definitely round.

    That's more like how the argument went and again, I can see the frustration. To me, the Earth is round...we've seen it from space...and I'm not going to argue with anyone over that if they can't see my point of view. Certainly not across four years.

    The other problem is that Resnor has tried over and over again to give his opinion, with "flat Earth" like varying statements to appease you guys. I mean, if you don't demand for him to explain what he thinks about Tua anymore, he probably wouldn't tell you, LOL. How would you react if I asked you daily about your flat Earth viewpoints and then used your daily words to point out subtle differences in your phrasing...only to call you a liar?

    The problem here is certainly Resnor, that much I agree with. It's like that 1983 movie War Games- the only way to win is to not play. He needs to stop playing the game, LOL.
     
  39. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    I think its also --->a stray cat will always stick around to the place that feeds him.
     
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  40. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Doesn't matter if there's variance. It's a statement about what the person said in the past that is provably wrong. There's no ambiguity here so that resnor is anything except 100% wrong when he says he's not lying.

    Anyway, I think resnor's been given far more than enough opportunities to come clean. It's clear he is willing to lie about his past stance regardless of evidence, and it's clear he's anti-Tua: that Tua is "really" just an average-ish QB that just happens to do real well given great surrounding cast. No point in giving him any further opportunities to "clarify" his stance.

    btw.. the only way "at most average" and "at least average" are both correct is if the person IS average.
     
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