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My opinion we dont have a bigtime coach or Qb

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Nov 5, 2023.

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  1. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    It wasn’t directed at anyone. Just a general statement. Sorry if you thought it was directed at you. You have so much great Information. Just know it wasn't a dig at you. I’m just fed up. I love this board and don’t like the Club format but the petty squabbling is so tiring IMO. I’m willing to moderate this board. Someone has too.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I’ve told you before you do a good job here and create good content

    We can build this forum up to what it was

    But folks better be ready if they recklessly criticize
     
  3. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You know, the people who talk bad about Tua don't understand how hard it is to get even a good QB, much less an elite one. Someone is going to spend the first or second overall pick on Caleb Williams and from what I see, he is far from ready to start in the NFL. Ditto Drake Maye. Both talented but not nearly deserving of the first two picks. People overdraft QBs because there's so little to choose from and you often have to wait years before QBs really come into their own.
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That's because in their mind Tua is no better than an average-ish QB. From their point of view you could replace Tua with Mac Jones or Tannehill or Sam Howell or who knows what and get similar performance. It's ridiculous.

    Thankfully some of the Herbert talk at least has died down after his career rating went below Tua's (96.7 to 97.5 right now).
     
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  5. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Hey, let's not write off Sam Howell. He's on a bad team but he's doing pretty damn good.
     
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  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Let's not annoint him either. Or suggest he'd do as well as Tua in this offense.
     
    Ryan likes this.
  7. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    100%

    And not just here, this forum is it's own little culture, but it's also a product of it's environment. I miss the early days of the POFO here where we had real discussions and debates about issues that impacted our world. That has not just been eliminated from the forum but obliterated in public discourse in General and it's why a discussion about a football team has to degenerate into bickering name calling and non stop arguments about how much we want to have an argument.

    As Americans/Phins Fans we owe each other more than that. Flippin be nice. Try that for starts.

    These constant circle jerk arguments are tiresome for sure, the Tannehill thread burnt me out. That and getting a new boat and my daughter getting married and a 2 week tour of Canada kept me a little busy so I haven't been around these parts much lately, sorry.

    As to the original post here, how can you not see it? They have built a great football team, top down. Ross>Grier>McDaniel>Coaching Staff>Tua>Tyreek>All the Jay-l-ns>Ramsey>Chase Claypool. Best Ive seen since early 80's and the early JJ teams. Growing pains, sure. Errors, plenty. Work to do, they'll be the first to say yes.

    Calling each other names doesn't change any of that. Ya'll should stop it. And if you can't, or somebody else can't then plz, leave this place. We are never going to all agree on any damn thing. But as Americans/Phin Fans we agree by cultural contract to be CIVIL about it.
    //Dad Rant over, see you in other threads.
     
  8. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    It seems that my attempt to interject some reason...my effort to try an re-elevate the quality of the forums has had some positive effects, but not completely.

    Nobody needs to be "called out" because he said "this", "that" or "the other" about this player or that player. Nobody can make anybody AGREE with your opinion about this, that or the other. All you can do is express your opinion, illustrate why you hold your opinion and let it go at that.

    It's like emotions. You can't tell someone what they're feeling it wrong. If someone is sad, they're sad. If someone is angry, they're angry. If someone is happy, they're happy. You can't tell someone they're WRONG for feeling the way they feel. You can tell someone you may not understand why they're feeling the way they do and if it was you, this is how you would be feeling and why, but the bottom line is, you can't MAKE someone feel differently. You may influence them with your perspective and their emotional outlook may change based on your perspective, but its ultimately up to them, not you.

    It's the same thing here. People's opinions are based on their own perceptions. You may think they are wrong and the only thing you can do is present your opinion, why you think the way you do and let it go at that. There are certain posters here that I don't even respond to. There are responses to posts that I've made that I don't even respond to. It doesn't matter. I've stated what I've stated and WHY I've stated it. If someone agrees with me, great! If they don't, they don't.

    The bottom line is we are all fans of the Miami Dolphins. Our love for this team and desire for them to win should be much greater than our desire to be "right".
     
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  9. Ryan

    Ryan Member

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    Go Phins!
    Thankful for Tua this Sunday! The best QB we’ve had since Marino (by far)! Let’s gooooo!
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    When I say "let it go", I'm talking about the judgement of others...not your core thoughts or beliefs. If I someone says Tua stinks, you should definitely defend your point of view like all of us do. At the same time though, all of us should be searching for some mutual understanding. It's okay to disagree.

    I like Butter Pecan ice cream and dislike Rocky Road. Does anyone want to fight me over that? Hopefully not, because my opinion is based on my taste buds and it's 100% true for me. I don't hate anyone for liking Rocky Road just like I'm not mad at anyone who questions Tua. You can defend your beliefs without judging others for theirs.
     
  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I just picked up Sam Howell in my fantasy football since Burrow went down. He's the #5 overall QB in fantasy points, which shocked me. So I took a look and he's actually playing good football on a pretty lousy team.
     
    Rick 1966 likes this.
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That is patently false. I've said several times that I think that Tua is a strange beast, and that when given great weapons, his innate traits come out and he does more with those weapons than a average or above average QB. HOWEVER, due to his limitations, he isn't going to make average players around him great, and the offense isn't going to be able to use his innate traits.

    I compared him to an F1 tracer and was told that I was a loser troll.
     
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    FURTHER, if we want to talk about Alabama...Tua had first round draft pick receivers, first round draft pick BEAST running backs, first round draft pick oline, etc.

    WHAT I SAID about Alabama was that I never thought that Tua was the FOCAL point of that offense.

    You guys have consistently and perpetually misconstrued what I've been saying all along. Then we've had 4 years of the Telephone Game for you to twist my meanings.
     
  14. Ryan

    Ryan Member

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    All that matters is Tua is the best QB we’ve had in over 20 years! Go Phins! I expect us to stomp a mud hole on the Raiders!
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree with your evaluation of Tua.

    Tua’s traits exploits any skill players that have the potential to catch the ball

    Speed of process, hi level anticipation and great accuracy is the recipe for any skill player to get the ball at the right time and place.
     
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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And here we go… Jesus, it’s been shown countless times your takes on the Qb over the years

    He’s proved you wrong a lot move on man
     
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  17. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Damn. I can go for a scoop of both right now.
     
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  18. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Right.. so you're saying the credit goes mostly to others, just like I said. Think about this. He's got Hill and Waddle, that's basically it. He has a poor OL, and except for a few games this year hasn't had a good RB. How is it possible for a QB to NOT elevate these other average-ish players and put up elite stats for prolonged periods?

    There's no way Tua does NOT elevate average players and put up these kinds of stats. That's why I keep pointing out how unlikely it is from a pure statistical point of view that the QB himself isn't elite when they consistently put up elite stats.

    See if you can square that circle and try answering the question again: if Tua keeps putting up elite stats, can you finally admit Tua himself is an elite QB and that it's not mostly due to Hill, Waddle and McDaniel?
     
  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    We're talking about provably false statements, not preferring a different flavor of ice cream. You don't "let it go" or those false statements will flood the forum.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That's fine you disagree.

    Can you point to a season where Tua didn't have elite weapons and three offense was still functioning well?

    Yes, there are extenuating circumstances, new systems, etc, however, I haven't seen evidence that Tia can take average teams to playoffs/championships.

    TL;DR
    Tua does more when given weapons than lesser QBs. IMO, Tua needs those weapons to do what he does. Which is fine.
     
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  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's like you can't read.
     
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  22. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    lol.. can YOU read? Answer the question. If Tua keeps putting up elite stats, can you admit that Tua himself is an elite QB and that it's not mostly due to Hill, Waddle and McDaniel?

    btw.. I could extend the same line of reasoning to tons of other elite QBs. Is Steve Young an elite QB? You never disagreed with that, yet he never showed he could play elite without an elite surrounding cast that was far better than Tua's (Tua doesn't have the OL and, for most of the last 2 years, the RB.. nor the defense).

    Double standard here for Tua, unless you can (for the first time) admit Tua himself will be elite if he keeps up this production.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2023
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  23. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Was this your attempt to clarify things and state your point ?
    If so, it is a futile attempt.
    You say the same things over and over and then throw in a slight praise of Tua and expect people to believe it.
    If you said " look, I just hate Tua. Never liked him, never will." Instead of TRYING to diminish his accomplishments and talent, you would undoubtedly be taken more seriously. Give it a shot .
     
  24. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    What's wrong with the term "troll"? There are trolls here. What should we call them, instigators? Then will that word be bad to use?

    No, I'll keep using the word troll when people are clearly a troll.
     
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  25. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    What don't you like about The Club format?

    People over there disagree all the time, but they do so in a sane, rational way while providing clear and concise reasons and explanations as to why they feel the way they do. If I have an opinion about something over there, and someone points out why they think that opinion is wrong and it makes sense, I'm more than happy to concede the debate and admit being wrong. That doesn't happen here because trolls have no other objective other than to create animosity.
     
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  26. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Of course you will.
     
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  27. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I don’t like that it’s all just one big string where people just post random things all week. You can’t focus on a topic as it just gets thrown into the hopper and you have to wade through 10 posts about nothing to get back to the topic. So basically that. Not the discussions. And the content is legit. Just the format sucks IMO.
     
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  28. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I think Bieniemy has something to do with his play. That's not a knock because I think he can be a really good QB, but rather an observation about how the KC offense seems to be struggling (comparatively) without him. In fact the Commanders offense is ranked just below KC's.
     
  29. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    No QB makes average players great. Ask Mahomes. He passer rating is almost 10 points lower than last season the lowest since he has been a starter. Here are his receivers (other than Kelsey). Which ones has he made great?

    upload_2023-11-19_12-53-32.png
     
  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Brother, I love you man. I really do. But there's no such thing as false opinions.
     
  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I'm not talking about opinions. I'm talking about provably false statements like when resnor said:
    Provably false. Please review the discussion linked below before responding. You're demonstrating now multiple times that you're not paying attention to a debate you're trying to insert yourself into.
    https://thephins.com/threads/my-opinion-we-dont-have-a-bigtime-coach-or-qb.98625/page-6#post-3590411
    https://thephins.com/threads/my-opinion-we-dont-have-a-bigtime-coach-or-qb.98625/page-6#post-3590444
     
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  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You're reading that way too critically. Let's break it down:

    However, I've ALWAYS said

    He claims to always say this

    that I thought Tua was at worst

    this is his "worst case scenario" for Tua's career

    an above average QB

    He thinks he's above average....again, at worst

    who barring injury

    If he doesn't get hurt (which is true for all NFL players...see Joe Burrow)

    would have a decent career.

    He should do fairly well over time....again at worst

    You're looking for venom and double talk here when he's not saying that. He likes, but doesn't love, Tua. He thinks he's above average, but also believes (this wasn't in the above quote) that others around him make him appear elite.

    That's what he's said over and over again and when Tua messes up (like today), he will point it out precisely because you guys are so hard on him.

    Brad, I'm not trying to sabotage your arguments, I promise. It just has to end someday. We did this for 7 years with Tannehill and now 4 years with Tua. There's a clear pattern here and it's not a good one.
     
  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Dude.. you didn't even read those links! I showed what he said was false. There's no if's and but's about it. And it's not the first time either. It's happened repeatedly. If you're going to defend provably false statements I'll accuse you of the same too. Up to you man.
     
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  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I did click the links and yes, he was wishy-washy on his opinions OVER TIME. At worst above average, at best above average, just an average quarterback. Is that what really has you so angry here?
     
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  35. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I have no problems with people changing their opinion, just so that's clear. The problem is acting like you had that opinion all along. Why is that important? Because in resnor's case he repeatedly claims people are misrepresenting or misunderstanding him. So either the fault is ours for not reading what he wrote in the past carefully, or he's the one at fault for claiming we didn't interpret what he wrote correctly. That's why this is important.
     
  36. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, the Tua thing has become toxic. I stated what I think about him and try to stay out of it mostly, because there doesn’t seem to be a common ground for both fronts (Pro-Tua-Tua sucks) and to me Tua is good enough, he just needs to show me a little bit more. I think we have to take things more lightly on this site. I mean, most of us write about a team we love on a Forum and there is some trolling sometimes, no biggie imo.

    edit: Oh and for the Pro Tua side, why care? Tuas doing quite good!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2023
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  37. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Another ho hum 325 for Tua.
     
  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen how many people here that have asked Resnor to give a clear post about his opinion? He fails to do so because truth be told, I don't know that he's locked in on anything yet. He was fairly sure Tua was going to be a bust (mostly due to injury perceptions), much like many of us thought of Tannehill (for not being able to feel pressure). But when good things happen, opinions adapt over time.

    I don't think this is your fault and I don't think it's completely his either. I do think there's a lot of poor communication though and a lot of people that are angry over something trivial. His opinion has changed but dude, I guarantee you that you can catch the top 50 posters here in the same scenario if you went back through their posts. I definitely flip-flopped on Tannehill and Tua (and Philbin, Sparano, Flores, etc).
     
  39. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well.. it's not trivial to me when someone accuses me of systematically misrepresenting their views despite me being able to literally prove that's not the case. Like I said, he just needs to be honest about his changing opinions and not act like I and others are the ones responsible for the "lack of communication". As I said in a previous post this is only happening with resnor, not with any other poster. The problem is not with us, it's with him.
     
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  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Again, I love you brother and I hope you have a great holiday week with friends and family. Hopefully Resnor can provide a little clarity on the situation and we can all enjoy Jets week!
     
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