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Multi-level marketing question

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Fishweiser, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. Fishweiser

    Fishweiser New Member

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    * I had a friend come to me wanting me to join something called dreamtrips from world ventures. He calls it a sort of vacation club where you get discounted vacations and such, but you can also become a rep and earn money. It works just like a pyramid scheme, where if you sign somebody up, and they sign people up and so on and so on, you will start making monthly checks. I think he said 30 people gets you $600.00 bucks a month. The fact that it sounds like a pyramid scheme kind of turned me away to start, but I was assured it wasn't and that it was called multilevel marketing. I had to look it up and its basically the same thing, but *multilevel marketing involves an actual product or service (the discounted vacation packages), and its legal. *Ive been trying to read reviews on this company and getting mixed ones, but over all, this kind of sounds like the scam I originally thought it was. Im*picking up that only 20% of the people who sign up actually make money, but like 2% make above living wage. ..Of course my friend who has only been at it 2 months now, has signed up 2 people and its so far netted him a total of 15 people, so hes half way to getting a check for 600 bucks a month. Im thinking to myself, that $600 bucks a month would be great as supplemental income, but i dont want to be suckered out of a $250 start up fee and 75 bucks a month if the negative stuff Im reading online. *So theres the scenario....heres the question..



    Have any of you heard of this place or can give more insight on multi level marketing? *Also,**its been broken down how it makes you money and how easy it seems, Im just trying to break down how something like this fails. Is it just not being able to recruit or is there something else?
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Derp Sherpa Club Member

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    Multilevel marketing is pyramid scheme. They are one in the same.
     
  3. mor911

    mor911 pooping

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    Any place that charges you to make money.... Is not interested in you making money.
     
  4. Fishweiser

    Fishweiser New Member

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    That what I was thinking, but apparently there is a difference in that a pyramid scheme offers no goods or services and thats how it fails , whereas MLM does and that keeps it afloat. - keep in mind, I say this as somebody who is not the most business savvy guy in the world, and i picked up this info just this morning on a quik google search lol
     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Derp Sherpa Club Member

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    What they sell is irrelevant. Its the structure of how they sell that makes them evil.

    All they are doing by making that completely arbitrary differentiation between services and products is obfuscating the truth with bull****. The truth is its a scam.

    As mor wisely said (never ever thought I'd type that) if you have to pay to be paid its a scam. Always and forever.

    Kick that person in the nuts and punch them in the throat, then run.
     
  6. mor911

    mor911 pooping

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    Captured for the end of times. All will know what you said this day.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    A guy who was my oppontent twice in wrestling from highschool came to me with dreamtrips.

    I find MLM's to be annoying as the only way to make money with them is to be relentlessly annoying. You have to talk to 1,000 people to sell to 1 person. Well maybe not that high, however the number will probably between 20 to 400 people. If you have the ability and fortitude to talk to about 300 people a year about this, you might make a pretty good profit from it.

    If you are able to do that, you would probably be able to find a real product to sale and sell it.
     
  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Super Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    This is bs. See Mor's post /end. :)
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Derp Sherpa Club Member

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    True story, I went to bartending school when I turned 21. I don't drink and knew nothing about bartending or alcohol but wanted to be a bartender.

    A guy in the class asked a group of us to come to a "seminar" where there'd be free lunch. I was out of work and free food is free food, so i went knowing it'd be some kind of sales thing.

    It was of course.

    They went through all the clapping and fake oohhs and ahhs while watching some stupid video. Then they proceeded to illustrate how the money gets divided up through the tiers using a $100 example.

    If added you up the percentages, it came out to 120%.

    I raised my hand asked where the extra $20 came from. They bumble-****ed around a non answer, that made no sense and didn't address the percentage problem. I said that didn't make sense.

    They brought me in the back and asked me to leave.

    So i took a sandwich and left.
     
  10. Fishweiser

    Fishweiser New Member

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    The way he makes it sound is that once you sign up a few, then they actually start working for you at getting you credits, and so on and so on. He said that he himself has only signed like 2 or 3 and hes already got 15 which is half of what he needs to get a 600 paycheck a month. He seems to think that if he just maintains 3 people that he himself signs, which is required to exempt him out of paying 70 bucks a month, that it will all take off and he can just sit back and watch his income grow as he gets higher up the chain. ....I know that cant be, but I just wish stump the whole idea of it with a chink of logic the next time I talk to him to make it obvious why it wont work, but I just can not come up with anything other than that it is BS. I mean I know its BS, but I cant tell him exactly why it is, you know what I mean?
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Derp Sherpa Club Member

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    They added credits to further obfuscate the problem.

    If he signs up 6 people he'll make $600/month. Is each person paying $100/month? If so, for what?
     
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  12. Fishweiser

    Fishweiser New Member

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    Well no, to get the $600 a month, he needs a total of 30 people under his belt. Until then, he gets nothing except like 30 bucks for every person he signs himself.
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Derp Sherpa Club Member

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    Ok, how much is each person of that 30 paying a month?
     
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  14. mor911

    mor911 pooping

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    The problem is that you're not actually selling a product. You're selling a dream of making money. But to do that you have to sell the dream to people that will need to sell the dream to more people. All the while you're feeding the people above you. Standard Pyramid Scheme. Do yourself a favor. Run.

    If you've got the skills to sell this thing to people you can probably sell insurance for an agency or get your real estate license and sell a home or two a year to make that extra cash. Dont feed this dude's pyramid. You're paying him for a chance to get people to pay you.
     
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  15. Fishweiser

    Fishweiser New Member

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    Well, from what I've read, they say like only 20% actually make any money. So if you go by that in figuring that only 20 percent of those are successful, 6 people of 30 would be exempt from the monthly fees, and 24 would be paying the 50-70 bucks each month....but then again, if 24 of 30 people are not successful at selling it, then they would most likely quit after time..or a big chunk of them....so theres that also.....
     
  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    MLMs are not the same as pyramid schemes.

    That said, with MLM organizations, only about 1% of members make money. The overwhelming majority end up losing. Be careful and do your research before joining one.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Fishweiser

    Fishweiser New Member

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    I see what you mean, but the argument would be that the product would be the "membership" and the exclusive deals on vacations.....which to be honest, I saw a couple of the deals and did a quik search on trip adviser, and they were like 3 or 4 percent higher than dream trips...but trip adviser doesnt cost 50-70 bucks a month lol
     
  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Right. How easy do you think it is to sign up 3 people per month that are also signing up 3 people per month? That is assuming no attrition.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Fishweiser

    Fishweiser New Member

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    Ive gotta ask him, but I want to think its 3 people period. Not 3 people each month....now if say 6 months go by and you you lost your 3rd member, you would have to pay the monthly fee again until you find another 3rd person.
     
  20. FasanoPaisano

    FasanoPaisano Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is interesting to me because the guy I work with and his wife do this kind of thing for ID Life. They sell vitamins and supplements, although it seems much more of a strange cult like experience for him, for example responding to facts with slogans.

    He gave me a packet of their protein powder to try, and it tasted good, so I thought I'd help him out and buy some. I asked him how much, and it was just immoral what they were charging (I told him as much). It was basically about a 400% markup against what I could (and do) get online for the same stuff. And this ID Life business is MLM. So I always thought that MLM just worked by preying on people who don't know any better and overcharging the heck out of them, and that's how they sustain it over the long term. I didn't research it much after this, just told him his prices aren't even competitive for a savvy consumer and left it at that.
     
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  21. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    The Mor lives!!!

    And ya, MLMs are scam jobs, about as legit as most jobs posted on craigslist or ones where you're a "contractor" but aren't guaranteed a salary and are legally responsible for anything you sell.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
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  22. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I think most of those sales jobs like that are cult like. Just like with Herballife, Avon, and the rest. I wonder how much money people really make with these types of jobs and if they are content with becoming a salesperson 24/7 and having every human interaction become a sales pitch. Ex: "Hey John, you want to come over for some beers tonight?" "Dude, how about I just bring over my Herbalife stuff that you have to try! I lost all this weight! You must buy some! Only 29.95 plus shipping and handling!"

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
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  23. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Yeah, wouldn't touch this with a 100 foot pole. As someone said you MAY be able to make money, but you'll work hard enough that you could have made more money for yourself without buying into some obscure scheme.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  25. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    It is known.
     
  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know this company well because every time I go to Myrtle Beach, I pick up one of their brochures and go for the "$90 minute no hassle presentation". The one in Myrtle Beach is for their timeshares, and for going to the presentation they'll give you a pair of tickets to a few of the local shows (negotiate with them....they'll go way up in bribes if they think you're really interested).

    So here's what happens. You go to the presentation and they start you off with a "buffet breakfast." It's just eggs, toast, potatoes, sausage....the basics....but it's an okay free breakfast. Grab your coffee/OJ, eat your grub and hang out peacefully...they give you breakfast so the sales reps watching you through a one-way mirror can decide who would relate to you the best. Before you stop eating, poof, someone appears at your table making small talk, asking about your vacation, where you're from, etc.

    Next thing you know, you're in the sales rep's car and going to a local beachfront property. They're showing you the pools, the penthouse apartments, and everything classy about the place. You even meet the "property manager" so you'll feel special....he greets you like a lifelong friend. Everyone seems to love you and your family.

    Once you arrive back at the sales office, they want to talk numbers. That's great because I want to talk numbers too. They present all these figures and statements that are intentionally confusing to reach a point where they say, "For about $220 a month, you can own this timeshare for life." Of course, they do their best to conceal that the total price is over $100k for something you never actually own and will rarely use. The best part though is that they tell you not to worry about using your condo during your assigned week- you can stay anywhere in the world at prime properties for $300-400 a week as a member (which is actually a sweet deal).

    That's about the time I pull out my smartphone and show the sales rep that people are selling the exact same timeshares on RCI for a dollar......yup, $1. That's because they want to get out of their contracts of paying $300-1200 in annual maintenance fees for a property that's now rundown and not worth visiting. And every time the sales reps are shocked....they jump up and run for their managers because they don't know what to do. Here I am being loud saying that folks can have their $100,000 property for a dollar, and I am escorted to the "payment desk" less than 30 seconds later. They give me my show tickets, my cash and I'm off.

    One time I even refused to leave, saying, "Well, let's talk about this. Why on Earth would anyone buy a timeshare that isn't worth the paper it's printed on? They threw in two Pirates Voyage tickets if I'd leave immediately...without them calling the cops."

    Why do they give away $150-250 in stuff to go through this crap with people? Because the commissions pay $30,000+ per sale. In fact, they're so profitable that it's a great day when they make a single sale- they'll gladly give away thousands to make that much dough. Plus, it's the only way they can sell anything.

    Fish, I've worked in Internet Marketing for almost 20 years now and I can tell you this. Whatever MLM you're looking at, think for yourself- if they can pay me and pay so many others off just a couple of sign-ups, then what are they making from my efforts? If you want to do discount vacations, then get your travel agent's license, build a basic website, and you can easily make $30k a year selling to friends/family without giving the business a single drop of effort. If you get the same signups through that MLM, you'll make maybe $10 and your friends/family are going to be pissed off when they realize that there are so many exclusions to the vacation, they can't even take it.

    That's the scam with that one- they'll sell 100k bookings for three weeks out of the year when there's only 2k total rooms....it is basically criminal while dancing around the law just enough to keep folks out of prison. Those companies are the scum of the Earth and they prey on young folks because you don't know any better....but now you do.

    If anyone wants a side business, talk to me....I'll teach you the basics of internet marketing and how to run a business with a larger company handling all the workload. You just sell and get paid, they do the rest. But it's 100% your business that you can build, make money from and eventually sell for real money. It is very hard work getting yourself started, but that's the only way to go if you want success.
     
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  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    MLM is not a pyramid scheme, aka ponzi scheme. It's difficult as all hell, and can be quite shady. But Avon and Amway sell around $10 billion a year each, give or take.
     
  28. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    You do realize this is a 14 month old post you bumped? Just sayin' I think the discussion is over but if you want to start a new thread.....
     
  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Huh...it was like the 4th thread down from the top, didn't even look at the dates.
     
  30. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    This is a little used forum. Happy to have your posts but you might be better off starting one of your own.
     
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  31. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Some are...
     
  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They all are if you really understand business. And I'm not saying they're all sleazy/criminal, but the money has to come from somewhere for you to make profit. And the more hands in the cookie jar, the less money you can make.

    For instance, some MLM's have big bonuses once you sell a certain amount- I saw one recently where they give you a brand new $1,200 Dell laptop after your 20th sale. The part people don't realize is that all the money used to buy all those laptops should be in your pocket in the first place.......that's what you would have made if you sold the exact same items on your own. But because you're selling for a company that gives your sponsor a cut, his sponsor a cut, plus profit for the company and whoever started the pipeline that you're in, you're making a very small commission compared to what you could've made on your own.

    So not, it's not a pyramid scheme, per se, but you're getting ripped off anyway.

    Avon is a rare example where you have a MLM that actually has unique products- some women swear by their skincare lines. But once you look closer, there are THOUSANDS of competing brands that are identical in ingredients, plus they pay much higher commissions if you work for them directly. There's around a 1000% markup in cosmetics and Avon pays you an 8 to 15% commission...you do the math. Would you rather buy from a true wholesaler and have a 500-600% markup, or are you good with 15% and the Avon name?

    That means you have the same profit off of selling one of your own items, or 7+ items from Avon.

    The other problem with MLM's (besides the low overall pay) is that your own future depends on other people. For the company to give you those bonuses, it's coming from new recruits entering the pipeline at the lowest possible commission rates. Once the bottom tier dries up, the whole pyramid falls and everything you were promised disappears. The only way to avoid that is for you to personally keep selling and recruiting. But if you're going to do that, then why not do it on your own with much higher profit margins and the power to make decisions on the company's future?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    This website pretty much stats that MLM is a pyramid scheme. Most of the ones that I have been introduced to are.
     
  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A pyramid scheme is one designed to steal your money.

    Umm, from your link:

     
  35. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I understand business very well thank you. A pyramid scheme cannot survive on its own, and MUST recruit new people and their initiation fees to sustain. MLM, real ones, sell products. Again, Amway and Avon sell close $10 billion in products, each. That is product. Not fees.
     
  36. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Naw, it is either a legit MLM, or are a pyramid scheme. Because a pyramid scheme calls themselves a MLM company, doesn't make them one. MLM's are legit, like Amway, and Avon etc. Pyramid schemes don't try to grow by selling a product. They are trying to grow by selling a lie, and then cashing out.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    Most of those companies sell product to the people who are selling it. You do not get real money by selling the product, you get it from recruiting new people.
     
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