Mortensen: Dolphins talking about adding Jennings AND Wallace

Why?

 

No way it happens. I just can't see us outbidding all the other teams that need a FA WR and end up with 2 of the top 3.
Sign Keller. Sign Jennings. Draft a WR day 1.

 

Well he doesn't know how to draft him, so we're stuck with this.

People want him to add one, and draft one.

Have you seen his drafts???

 

Yeah, because its not like Mike Pouncey isn't making plays out there.

 

Exactly how is Bruce Arians's offense similar to the Joe Philbin Miami offense/Green Bay Packer offense? They couldn't be more dissimilar. One is vertically oriented that doesn't rely on timing. One is a timing based offense that uses the vertical stuff as more of a way to open up the underneath and intermediate routes.

 

Watch the games. Arians offense is based much more on timing then Haley who emphasizes a "get the ball out" mentality. Haley looks for quick hits while Arians will use the intermediate routes more. Arians will also use more drags and crosses to get a player like Wallace in space. Its not exactly like what we run but its a lot of similar route concepts.

 

I think Arians' is a lot more vertical. Might be the most vertical-oriented in the league.

 

They aren't getting both. I'd like a top WR and #1/#2 TE anyway instead.

 

Oh this thread was about Centers?

My bad.

 

Theyre only dissimilar in their route trees. The emphasis on timing still plays bigger in Arians offense then in most others. So in that respect Wallace knows how to get to a spot on the field. Like we have said the route tree will be different. I think he can learn it and excel at it. You obviously feel differently.

 

Funny how Jennings somehow ranked 2nd in 2010 to Wallace in plays over 50 yards playing for Joe Philbin while Wallace was playing for Arians. Arians has more emphasis on being a vertical offense but to think Philbin de-emphasizes that is falling on to the trap of believing that this years receivers (Hartline and Bess) were actually capable of working in that kind of offense.

 

????? Someone alluded to "playmakers", so I assumed Pouncey fits, considering he makes a lot of plays?

 

I don't think Philbin de-emphasizes anything, which is the point IMO. He wants complete players IMO.

 

We will find out based on who is signed and drafted over the next few years. I think we ran an offense this year that was best suited to fit the players we had and looked different from what was run in GB the last few years. I suspect we will see it look more and more like the GB offense under Philbin from 2008-2011 in the next season or two

 

Firstly, you have no diea what the numbers on both will be, so to say signing them would automatically create negative value is based on nothing more than speculation.

Second, the money is going to be spent somehwre. I'd rather sign both Wallace and Jennings and solve the WR problem then sign one or neither and take my chances with the draft. But make no mistake the money is going to be spent.

 

To continue that thought, many of the posters in this forum are pretty high on Lamar Miller, too. that's a drafted playmaker.

 

Right, but I don't think Mike Wallace would fit well in GBs offense.

 

I think you realize the term "playmakers" is associated with players that commonly score TD's. No one in their right mind doesnt think Pouncey is an elite C but in the context of this thread he and every other OL is virtually irrelevant.

 

He doesn't make any plays. He sets up for the playmakers. He's very very good. Maybe even the best. But he's not a play maker. The best long snapper in the world doesn't make plays. He makes it possible for the kicker.

The O-line doesn't make plays. They're 7-Up. Never had never will.

Do you ever hear them say "Oh look at the play by the Right Guard!" No. They say look at the pancake by the right guard, opening up a hole for Reggie Bush to run through it.

Pouncey is not a playmaker until he lines up as an eligible and catches a pass (Frack you Jumbo Elliot!).

Mike Pouncey is an excellent center. On offense the playmakers are the ones handling the ball. This is elementary stuff Stringer.

 

Both?

 

And the problem I have isnt your opinion but the manner that some people state that as fact when in fact that Mike Wallace has never been asked to play in a WCO so we actually dont know if he can adapt and fit that. I think he can based on what I have seen over the years.

 

This is true. But I will say I don't think Mike Wallace is worth more than $7-8M a season. Jennings is about the same, maybe a little higher IMO.

Right, and in the process of "solving" the WR position, overpaying to that degree would create even more problems at other positions. You're likely not going to be able to sign adequate players at the other positions. Despite the consensus here, there are a lot of positions on the team aside from WR.

 

It's almost a certainty. Very few big money free agents don't end up significantly overpaid. I'd argue that way more are outright disasters.

That doesn't mean that the money will be spent as inefficiently.

 

He certainly can develop into that kind of player. But I sure as hell don't want to spend $10M+ based on a projection that they can develop.

 

I think this would be a disaster.

Sign Greg Jennings. Veteran, knows the offense, good guy. Could really help our young quaterback and help our young receiver(s) we end up drafting.

KB said it in another thread, Wallace is Alvin Harper.

 

We still have 9 draft picks to address the rest of the issues. With our cap space there is no reason we couldn't sign both and still have plenty of space. I'm more confident in Ireland finding o-linemen and DB's who might be able to play right away in the draft then I am of him finding WRs. So I say get the vets you know can play in free agency and draft the rest.

 

Why would it be a disaster? Seriously. At worst, neither guy produces the way you expect, but that's true of any free agent signee or draftee. Neither guy is getting a $100 million contract. Calling signing both a disaster is hyperbole to the extreme, the likes of with the Ireland brigade would be calling out in every thread if the sentiment was even a whiff anti-Ireland.

And unlike Alvin Harper, Mike Wallace has actually been and produced as the #1 target for a team.

 

Getting 2 draft picks to be immediate adequate starters would really be a homerun. You're essentially of the belief that Miami could find a starting tackle, two starting CBs, a TE, and a starting defensive lineman in one draft. You're going to have a hard time even filling out a full roster, and if you do the youth would likely prohibit any type of success to the degree which you require.

 

I don't buy it. Mike Wallace is Mike Wallace. Alvin Harper is Alvin Harper.
I really doubt we sign both, but if we are pursuing Wallace for real, then that means internal discussions between Ireland and the coaches indicate that Wallace can fit fine in this offense.

 

Only if we get Michael Baiamonte as our stadium announcer.

 

Just look at history. No team gives out those type of FA contracts to two guys in one offseason and ends up successful. You could even make the argument that one of those contracts usually ends up not good.

 

20 years. Irving Fryar and Mark Ingram were a VERY good starting duo.

 

Not sure about Harper. Maybe Rocket Ismail.

 

It is. Andrew Luck threw the ball down the field more than any other quarterback last year, and his Pittsburgh offenses were known for Roethlisberger holding the ball and flinging it down the field. There is very little timing or rythm based passing in his scheme. Todd Haley's scheme is much more timing oriented with the quicker passes, and that's the biggest reason Mike Wallace wasn't as successful.

Know what Mike Tomlin's nick name for Mike Wallace is? One trick, as in one trick pony. That's what Tomlin calls a guy who is supposed to be our top free agent target, a guy that believes he is worth $12 million plus per year.

 

That post was a real buzz kill.

 

A guy that actually held out too. I could only imagine how Miami would handle that.

He certainly is really good at that one trick though. I'd be alright giving him $7M a season. I think he actually may end up getting close to that. I'm not sure he gets more than Jennings in FA.

 

Especially if KC tags Bowe which is the latest rumor.

 

Jennings should get more. He's the better receiver. Between the two, Jennings is the one that can play in any offense.

I found this link to a Steeler's discussion board where a guy does a really good job detailing Mike Wallace's route running.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/16092-Mike-Wallace-Route-Running



That's a rounded off out pattern if I've ever seen one, and this is a route that is a mainstay of the offense Joe Philbin and Mike Sherman run. The result of this play was an interception, and it was mainly because Wallace didn't make a hard break on the out cut.



Another route that is a big portion of the passing offense in Philbin's/Sherman's system. Once again, the route was rounded off instead of making a hard break.



Here's a good contrast. Wallace is running what might be a hitch, but it is hard to tell because he half assed it. On the other side, Brown runs a post and runs it the way it is supposed to be run.

 

Thats a good find. I think his conclusion is pretty spot-on:

Now the issues Wallace has certainly can be corrected. I would take him on my team for the right price. But you can't pay big money for a guy that needs that much work.

 

We are looking for draft picks to produce two adequate immediate starters already anyway. What difference does it make if they are at Ot or CB rather than WR?

If you're going to sign Wallaca to say $10 million per and Hartline to $5-6 million per, why not sign Jenning for $1-2 more million? Isn;'t that an upgrade, and the difference isn't so great that it would make a huge difference.

I'm presuming that you want to resign Hartline. If you do, then the cost difference between Walalce/Hartline and Wallace/Jennings shouldn;t be that rgeat. And if it is, then fine. But it's something worth pursuing