EOM http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/29/report-barkevious-mingo-unlikely-to-play-week-one/ Note: Wasnt a fan of his in college and I really think the guy is going to be bust… but...
He's the kind of guy that could give Tyson Clabo a bit of trouble so this is good news. The flip side to this is when the Dolphins end up playing without Dion Jordan.
Thing is, Mingo is more important to them than Jordan is to us. We have Wake. OV/Odrick also appear to be coming around so I think we are good until Jordan gets back. We have such depth that I expect Jordan to be primarily a third down sub as we ease him back to full health anyway.
Don't forget they added Kruger this offseason. I think Jordan / Mingo are both important to their teams. We have Wake - but they have Joe Thomas at LT.
Cameron Wake is better than Paul Kruger (who is also a strong pass rusher) but let's not start going into fan territory by pretending we have all these other advantages in the pass rush department. Desmond Bryant is a very accomplished inside pass rusher, at least as accomplished as Randy Starks and a heck of a lot more accomplished than Jared Odrick. And you can't just start bringing Olivier Vernon into the mix when he's not proven anything yet, except that he can go out for an entire season and be a really, really INefficient pass rusher despite being put on the field mostly for choicest pass rush opportunities. I think any Browns fan that wants to say that if you strip away Barkevious Mingo and Dion Jordan, that the Browns still have a better overall pass rush...I wouldn't be terribly inclined to argue it, based on what I've seen. I don't know that I would necessarily agree but it's close enough as to not be worth arguing.
Looking at sack numbers in two years Odrick has 11 sacks, in 3 years Bryant has 11.5. Does he have a lot more pressures?
Over the last two years: Randy Starks - 64 pressures on 864 snaps (13.5x) Jared Odrick - 61 pressures on 959 snaps (15.7x) Desmond Bryant - 59 pressures on 665 snaps (11.3x)
No way of determining. Are you saying it's easier to get pressures from the interior than from the edge? Because the statistics don't support that.
Fair assessment. Discounting both rookies and it is close. Bryant and Kruger are good players players but I'd be more inclined to give the edge to us. Soliai is also, IMO, an accomplished inside pressure guy solely on the merit that he can dominate and occupy multiple blocks disrupting the pocket. Regardless of who has the better pass rush, I still think they need Mingo more than we need Jordan.
I don't think they need Mingo at all to be honest. Sheard, Bryant and Kruger appear to be doing well just as Miami can boast that Wake, Odrick and Starks can rush the passer pretty well.
To me that's all the more reason it would be nice to have someone opposite Wake we can count on to rush the passer well. Bigger reward.
The Browns will be missing Lauvao and Pinkston at guard, Oniel Cousins and John Greco will be replacing them. I think our interior rush will be a problem for them regardless of who's rushing from RE. I also believe the loss of Mingo (Sheard has been out too) hurts them more than losing Jordan affects us b/c regardless of who we have at RE they're likely to get eaten up by Joe Thomas. Meanwhile I'll take any advantage I can get when it comes to lowering the bar for Jon Martin, going after JMart is probably Cleveland's best chance at disrupting our pass game consistently.
"Check your Mingo at the door" I am also "Fluker in the butt" and "Hugh Thornton urside" in my others ones.
Yeah not quite. I admire the pro-Dolphin way of spinning that situation but the facts aren't really how you laid them out. John Greco is and has been the starter at left guard, and a very good one. They're not missing anyone there. Shaun Lauvao was their starter at right guard last year and he was their John Jerry, the weak link. He and Jason Pinkston were set to compete for the right guard position this preseason but first Lauvao got hurt and then Pinkston got hurt. Now it's going to be Oniel Cousins, who has 44 career starts. I agree that whoever on our end has the benefit of rushing over Oniel Cousins could have some impact via pass rush. But I'm sure they are thinking the same thing about their plays rushing over our starting right guard, who hasn't even been decided yet.
Right - but it won't be hard to send help over there when you have the Joe Thomas vs Olivier Vernon match-up on the other side. Not saying I think Dion Jordan could immediately come in and dominate Joe Thomas - but you have to imagine he'd at least give him more trouble than our current set-up.
Ah, you are correct sir. And it's Phins forum why would I not be pro-Dolphin? How many career starts at RG? IIRC he was brought in as a backup RT. Are there any weak links on their OL other than at RG? I ask because they spend the 3rd overall on TRich who posted a 3.6 ypc for the season and we all know he doesn't leave many yards on the field. You seem to want Daniel Thomas run out of town for posting a 3.6 as a backup RB behind an OL that you seem to be implying is inferior to that of the Browns. What am I missing? RG is John Jerry, you didn't get the memo?
Nothing wrong with being pro Dolphin. Just laying out the facts correctly. John Greco is and has been their starter at left guard, he wasn't shoved into the role because of the Lauvao/Pinkston injuries. Speaking of which, I read an article which stated that Oniel Cousins had 44 starts. Now that I fact checked that article's claim, they're incorrect. I find that Oniel has only played significantly (going by snap counts) in about 9 or 10 games. So he's less experienced than I said before. If you're wondering what differences in quality Trent Richardson has demonstrated relative to Daniel Thomas, I think first off the film tells the tale the best. But if you're looking for more than that I would point out that Richardson created 59 missed tackles in 2012 on his 318 touches (1 every 5.4 touches). Daniel Thomas created only 15 missed tackles in his rookie season, on 177 touches (1 every 11.8 touches). I think the next most obvious thing to point out would be the touchdowns, as Trent Richardson accumulated 11 rushing touchdowns as a rookie, whereas Daniel Thomas accumulated 0 rushing touchdowns as a rookie. Is this because Richardson had more opportunities? Not necessarily. Daniel Thomas had 11 carries on Goal to Go and did not produce a single touchdown on any of them, while averaging less than 23% of the remaining yardage-to-go on the downs. Trent Richardson had 23 carries on Goal to Go and produced 8 touchdowns while averaging a gain of over 50% of the remaining yardage-to-go on such carries. On a somewhat related but still signiifcant note, you can look at what the two have done inside the red zone. As a rookie, Daniel Thomas gained only 1.4 yards per carry inside the red zone, averaging that same 23% of yardage-to-go per carry on his 24 carries. Trent Richardson as a rookie ran for almost a whole yard more per carry inside the red zone, 2.3 yards per carry, while once again averaging over 50% of the yardage-to-go on the 38 carries. So it wasn't just a matter of Richardson being lucky enough to have the right opportunities to punch the ball into the end zone a few times. He was just a consistently better red zone runner and it was his better efficiency which produced the better results. All that said, Trent Richardson needs to improve and I think most people would tell you that. He can't go another year averaging 3.6 yards per carry like Daniel Thomas did in 2012. Even though the quality metrics clearly show he was already better as a rookie than Daniel Thomas was as a rookie, he too will not escape the disappointment label if he follows up with the kind of second year that Daniel Thomas did. They have yet to announce that. A prediction is not the same as an announcement.
I don't want Jordan to play either. Ease jordan in a few snaps in week 2 then allow his third downs against the Saints week 3.
Thanks for the correction on Greco. So their line is in tact w/ the exception of their "weak link" right guard who's injured, his backup "even weaker link?" is also injured. So they're inserting Oniel Cousins, a career backup at OT, as the starting RG. I'll admit, if you're going to have a weak spot on offense RG is as good a place as any. At the same time the Dolphins' DT depth/strength make them uniquely equipped to capitalize on that weakness. And it is a weakness, IMO. If you have time watch the first few series of the Colts-Indy game. You'll see pathetic cut blocks on the back side of zone runs. Angerer dusts him off and makes the tackle one run, he tries to pull out front on a power run and gets pancaked by Robert Mathis, he pulls out on Angerer the next play and gets stoned, he's pulled for two series in favor of Garrett Gilkey, who? COusins did look in pass pro though. That's a theme for the Browns it seems. I'm not disputing that TRich is a better back. I don't think DThomas is even in the same zip code. What I'm getting at is that Cleveland's run blocking is sub par IMO. It's the logical conclusion to make given the 2 backs' respective numbers and when I watch Cleveland's games the poor blocking shows up on film as well. The Browns are a run first team that doesn't run block especially well. They may have a good season ahead of them if things come together but they do not match up well with Miami's defense at all IMO. They haven't announced Lamar Miller as a starter either but it's pretty clear he's gonna be the guy. Louis is gone, Samuda is a liability in pass pro. Garner is the swing OT, they won't risk him at RG if there is another warm body available. Jerry was the starter all last season, came into camp this year as the starter and only left the lineup due to injury. He's the #1 RG , no announcement needed.
