I really like Mayock and his list here is par for the course with a couple things I disagree with him on. Aren't there more impactful safeties than Zeke Motta? Totally agree with him on Cyprien though. Looks like Watson isn't a secret anymore, which I guess could have been expected. His WR list is interesting, I figured he would be one of those guys that didn't have Patterson ranked first.
It's not that surprising. Mike Mayock rated Gerald McCoy over Ndamukong Suh. That kind of showed what he values at the top end of the position. In that way, the Sharrif Floyd versus Star Lotulelei decision is likely to break down similarly for Mayock. By the way this is just a pet peeve but if you're going to link "Mike Mayock Top 5 by Position" then I think it's cheesy to link to some guy's blog post about the top 5. It's Mayock's work, Mayock should get the click-thrus. Here's the actual link: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1...ecombine-position-rankings-for-2013-nfl-draft
Dion Jordan as the #1 outside linebacker..dig that.. Eifert as #1... Dig that.. He must really love Joeckel cause he loved Fisher at the senior bowl. We should be able to get a good corner.. Eddie Lacy..Montee ball..Andre Ellington...agreed..I'd love one of those boys..but I doubt we go there early enough..have seen some folks say that Bernard should be first off the board...dont agree with that at all, I don't see enough speed in the small package. Cordarelle then Allen...it's a good debate..combine will give us more insight..I think Keenan is a complete baller..best hands in the draft..real good size, runs like a back after the catch..had a sh$$y Qb while in college, and everyone knew he was getting the ball..I keep forgetting about that report we got here that he doesn't work hard, does anyone remember the details on that again? Where did that hype go about Landry jones being a first round pick last year.. Terrance Williams had a scheme that got him in space a lot to accumulate all those catches and yards, watching his games he's untouched a lot, that's gonna change in the NFL,wanna see where his strength and body is at the combine.. I think we should get ourselves a nice shiny new transcendent outside linebacker..Dion Jordan.
Jordans' versatility as a defensive end and outside linebacker makes him an absolute commodity. His injury could scare Jeff Ireland who needs to nail this off-season
We've heard that he's on a nutritional program that's trying to beef him up, but I'm not sure how he's lifting and gaining good mass coming off torn labrum surgery, we just dont have enough info, his strength numbers may be weak at the combine..
Mayock is on a conference call right now. Says Cordarrelle is a special talent but the one year makes him nervous. Says Allen is a reach at 12. Says Warmack the best player he's graded, says Jon Cooper a great talent, doesn't have Damontre Moore or Bjoern W as top ten picks. Loads the I agree with him on. Says Sharrif is a top five pick.
Also absurdly said Dion Jordan could be like Aldon Smith and that Cooper was worthy of mention for top pick.
I have Warmack and Cooper as neck and neck, both better than Decastro imo, I think they both were kept in cellars all thru college and fed raw meat..would love one of them on our team..
sufferin succotash... Everyone here likes Escobar and he is now Mayock's 3rd best TE. I have to check this guy out at some point
Would I be in the minority in liking Lane Johnson more that Eric Fisher? When I watch the Senior Bowl practices Johnson just stands out to me more. Fisher was fine and had a good week of practice himself but Lane jumps off the screen in my eyes. I've re-watched those practices on Tivo a few times now and nothing has changed that opinion.
I don't think that's a particularly tough evaluation Luda..he fits there, better than Kelce unless your looking for a Hernandez type so you prefer Reed..Escobar has a more balanced games with good size...
I'm guessing here but I think Ireland would go back to his principles, skip on Patterson and draft someone who has had at least 30 starts. With the exception of last year he's always been safe in the first round.
I think he will look for plug and play football players. Look at the two guys he's drafted since being in sole charge; Pouncey has played thirty two games out of thirty two. Tannehill sixteen out of sixteen. He can't afford an AJ Jenkins or a Mike Floyd or a Derrick Sherrod. Immediate impact.
IMO Patterson counts as an immediate impact guy if Philbin & Sherman have enough creativity to get him involved.
That may be true, but will not be the case if they already have (for example) Brian Hartline, Davone Bess and Mike Wallace.
I agree. Been having this debate with people who are convinced his past pattern is irrelevant to what he will do this time. I don;t believe, for instance, Ireland would draft a situation pass rusher or rotational player at 12. For example, a guy like Jarvis Jones, who would not be an immediate three-down player for us, but could come in on 3rd downs to rush the passer. Actually, I wouldn;t spend a 12 on that either, but some people insist Ireland may use the #12 to get a guy who only plays some downs. No one gets drafted at 12 unless we can get max reps out of him this season. (This is also why it would make no sense to keep Hartline and Bess (or Hartline, Jennings AND BEss) , then draft Cordarrelle. I can't see the coaches starting a rookie ahead of a vet at the outset of the season. heck, it took veterans Gaffney and Armstrong weeks to learn the playbook and how to execute it, how could a rookie WR do that? The only place WR makes sense to me is round two, where it's okay if the guy is only coming in on third downs and long to-go yardage)
Wow. I just did a post saying that, then scrolled up to see you've already said it. Agree completely.
Tell that to the people who insist Jeff's past has nothing to do with the choice he will make at 12 this year. They're certain he will draft BPA, even if it means a guy like Star sits behind a re-signed Starks and Soliai. Not happening (although.... if Ireland WERE to end up in that scenario, I could see him taking Star then trading one of Starks or Soliai).
Plus he's a one year starter at college. The chances of him being a sixteen game starter to the tune of Pouncey and Tannehill is slim.
I'm convinced that Kenny Vacaro is in the Top 2-3 for the #12 pick. Given what we do along the front, adding a player who could man up with many a TE and or carry the crossing route in his zone - it could make our defense down right dirty if we add someone with an ability to get to the passer. And, it doesn't necessarily mean that Clemons gets benched outright. With offense playing the way they are playing, the nickel is more or less just as much a base defense as 'base' defense is. Nickel is seeing an inordinate number of snaps over the last 5-7 years. Vacaro would be a huge help going against teams like NE, GB, Houston etc.
Since 2009, 26 rookie receivers caught for 500+ yards and 3+ TDs. Don't see why Patterson couldn't be #27. IMO that would be enough contribution to rationalize a #12 pick even if he's not a year 1 starter.
I agree.... but at the same time when a receiver has as much talent as Patterson there are easy ways to get him involved and productive w/o having to be a starter.
I live in LA, i saw 80% of Cal's games, and I can tell you that if Allen has the best hands in the draft then the hands in this class leave a lot to be desired. Allen or Patterson shouldn't even be a debate in my opinion, especially at 12. and Allen does not run like a back after the catch, his balance is shoddy as best, for a big guy he's not that physical, and he's a long strider that takes a while to get up to speed. if he were bigger, more physical, and had better hands than Patterson, okay then its a debate, but the fact is they are about the same size (matter of fact i wouldn't be surprised if Patterson actually weighed more), and as far as hands go I saw Allen drop some of the simplest passes. Patterson too but at least it was his first and only year at a big time Div 1 program. then again Allen over Patterson is a textbook Ireland pick
Ill tell you one thing about the rankings of Mayock in that first post: If he doesnt consider D.J. Swearinger a top 5 safety he needs to get his eyes checked. I like Mayock a lot but Daniel Jeremiah hit the nail on the head in that Swearinger plays with a lot of violence whether hes at CB or free safety (and in the NFL hes a safety much like Antrel Rolle imo). Swearinger was 2nd team all SEC and has shown a knack for creating turnovers. Hes one of the top 3 safeties in the draft from where I sit.
That may be true but have those 26 done it consistently? Consistency is all I care I about. Out of those 26 receivers who is still producing at/around/beyond that level now? I can think of only a few: AJ Green(4th pick in the 1st), Julio Jones(6th pick in the 1st), Dez Bryant(24th in the 1st), and Michael Crabtree(10th in the 1st). If you're picking a receiver at #12, in this draft especially, he better be the best receiver (around where those 4 ^ are/were at) and have the resume to back it up which Patterson does not.
Patterson is the only special WR in this class. Size, speed, ability. Best part is we haven't even seen him at his best.
Not really sure what you're trying to say here. If you believe Patterson doesn't have upper echelon talent then just say so. Otherwise I think it's pretty silly to question his ability to develop and improve beyond his rookie year which it sounds like you're insinuating. I guess that depends what your definition of resume is. If you're going by talent & upside then his resume is top notch. If you're going by the fact he played one year then that would be your choice and a potential mistake.
BTW, the discussion was about being able to contribute in year 1, so WADR either argue the points being discussed or simply don't quote the person if you plan on going off on your own tangent.
I agree. I guess the top 3 safeties will be Vaccaro, Reid and Elam in some order, but after that give me Phillip Thomas or Rambo, because they appear to both have a nose for the ball.
