He's a junior, but that's a good point to mention him because he may declare with Barkley leaving. The best WRs all appear to be juniors so it depends on who declares I guess. Terrance Williams of Baylor is the top senior and at this point considered a likely 1st rounder. I just cannot get into a lot of draft talk when the season isn't even started yet. It feels like giving up to me, and as bad as things look, I'll be watching every week, and hoping for the best.
Just looking at that list, who is that guy at #9? Andre Goodman? Hmmm, that name sounds familiar. We didn't even try to resign him in 2009. Let him walk along with Renaldo Hill who was a solid smart FS for us in 2008. Choosing instead to throw more money at Gibril Wilson than what Goody and Hill would have cost, or did cost Denver, combined. Now, here he is still in the league and quietly playing at a high level. When you see things like that, then having to draft Goody's replacement in the 2009 draft, when we could have went for a pass rusher like Matthews or Barwin instead, for me it makes me really question the competence of the person running the personnel acquisition dept. Then just 3 years later we are trading away this replacement, not because he isn't talented or doesn't play well, but because he isn't mentally mature enough and our coaches don't want to deal with him, or we are told. Had you reached the peak of your mental maturity by 24 yrs of age? I can't say I did. I just can't wrap myself around this deal. Anyone who says Davis didn't play well is in denial IMO. We did not trade him because of his performance in games, it's due to his maturity level.
My hope lies in my belief that a winning team culture (fueled by player leadership) is the key ingredient in winning at this level, and the fact that Joe Philbin is beginning his tenure by focusing on creating that culture by removing players who run counter to it.
I can honestly say I truly admire you for doing that. It is obvious helping people who need it, is more important to you than a nice fat bank account. That's a rare quality in this day and age.
Dude, we are seeing changes to the top and middle of the roster too. It's interesting how certain Philbin is to put his strong stamp on this squad.
I agree with all this, Marve. I was pissed at the time when Miami put itself in the position of basically being forced to take a 1st round corner b/c we couldn't or didn't want to re-sign Goodman or go after one of the many qualified starting corners considering our $6.0M in cap room. If I knew that was Ireland's doing, I would've certainly given him an earful for it, but in Ireland's 2nd season as GM [in training] I don't know how much was Parcells. All I can hope for is that the mistake was recognized and Jeff will make sure to not see history repeat itself. Personally, I believe most of it comes down to the fact that Coach Philbin likely isn't thrilled about having one of, if not, the most talented player on the team being an underachiever who isn't buying in, especially when it's during the most critical time of the buying in period, the beginning. What message does that send the team and younger players when they can witness an elite talent making millions w/o giving his all nor leading by example? It can almost lead to the selfish mentality of, "Well if our most naturally gifted player doesn't seem to be buying in to Philbin's plan then why should I sacrifice for it?!" Vontae is almost like the anti lead-by-example poster child considering he's talented enough to play well in the league without making much sacrifice. If I'm a HC, I don't want that type of example on my team, and if he showed up this year out of shape after being called out last year, I don't see anything changing until Vontae's career hits rock bottom, which doesn't seem likely considering he's good enough to be above average w/o applying himself. Personally, I'd want <scratch that> I'd require my most talented players to also be my greatest lead-by-example guys b/c all it does is push others to work harder. It makes the player better, and it makes the players nipping on his heels work that much harder to get better. It creates solidarity and helps instill confidence in the team by leaving players thinking, "If Reggie Bush and so and so are buying into it and sacrificing themselves, then maybe it's not a waste of time. Maybe I should be a believer and buy in,too. Perhaps there's a light at the end of the tunnel." Eventually Vontae will become a FA, and the issues that left us trading him now will likely be the same issues keeping us from re-signing him. I'd just as soon get good value for him now rather than less value in 2013 or no value in 2014 as a FA. If he was deemed to not be a part of the future, then is it really worth paying a 2nd & 6th to have Vontae's services for the next 2 years, especially when it's possible he doesn't beat out Marshall?
My thoughts on the trade after playing Guild Wars 2 all weekend and 'just' finding out about it. -2nd and 6th conditional (Any word on what the condition is?) will be nice to play with especially if he can turn around and get Tanny some immediate help right now. -Jeff Ireland has balls. How else can you make 2 moves (This and Brandon Marshall) that you know are going to be universally hated and still do it. It's clear that Philbin wants a specific blue collar, hard working locker room and Marshall/Davis weren't it. -Vontae Davis is HIGHLY overrated to many people here. Sure Vontae comes up with the nice interception here or there but he was hardly a shutdown corner. He gave up a LOT of deep plays over the years. I do like the times we'd blitz him off the corner and how he dealt with the runs his way. Wasn't afraid to stick his nose in there. -We got a 2nd and a 6th for a CB that has belonged to a group of DB's who consistently rate in the bottom 1/3rd of the league in pass defense. -Vontae in NO way was a 3rd string CB or even a nickel as some folks were saying. He was a BACKUP CB. In other words when he came on the field Marshall was moving into the slot. Aka same thing Nolan will be doing. -Speaking of Nolan. No pressure buddy....but were watching you intently. No repeat of the early portion of last season for you...or your toast. -We should be scrounging the waiver wire for a 4th/5th CB's but that's not too unusual around the league....everyone's 4th/5th corners usually suck. Unless your Philly. -Want to improve the secondary.............for the love of god improve the pass rush. That would be the biggest way to improve this defense at this moment. -If Ireland flips this pick for immediate WR help.....we all should forgive and kiss his ***. Really if he pulls that off and we still got extra picks on draft day that would be sweet. ie: dumped the malcontents in Marshall/Davis...still get a WR replacement, Have Richard replace Vontae and have extra picks on draft day? -Flipside is.....he's basically tanking this season for the future if he doesn't get WR help. He'd also be stunting Tanny's growth. -Hear that Dansby? Shape up or under Philbin's ship you'll be setting sail. Malcontents will not be tolerated in Miami no longer. I know that was said during Parcell's/Sparano's reign but that was obviously lip service. On the flipside....Bush you might see a new contract because your repsectful hard working and wanting to lead in the right way. -Vontae Davis trade value will never be higher. He was relagated to the #3 corner slot/1st backup (not nickel!). If you wait till after the season you have lost all leverage. While Vontae 'can' play better...there is no sign he will. Going into his 4th season he's coming in out of shape angering a 2nd coaching staff. Been benched 1 game/suspended another due to infractions such as showing up to practice not just hungover...but still physically DRUNK. There is a very good chance Vontae never gets it together.
There's a chance that being rejecting by Miami could light a fire under Vontae's arse, but I'm not sure that'll provide enough of an emotional stimulus to get the job done. Vontae is probably the type who would need to screw up enough to be cut before his light comes on. Shouright? Thoughts?
That's a huge consideration here IMO. You have a first-year head coach with a rookie quarterback here. The team culture is very tenuous and very sensitive to pulls in either direction IMO. The leadership council of Bush, Long, and Dansby is a pull in a positive direction. Vontae Davis was a pull in a negative one. Compare this team with the Patriots, where the team culture is firmly established with Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. The team culture is so firmly established there that they can add on a Chad Johnson and completely revamp his personality! That's not going to happen here at this point, with a first-year head coach and a rookie QB. The weeds need to be pulled here.
I think he's simply too immature to "own" himself and his career and to take responsibility for either.
I'm just happy that the removal of a "negative pull" (a player who isn't a positive, lead-by-example influence) was able to net us a 2nd & 6th. I'd rather have Vontae pull it together and become the 1st rounder his talent suggests, but as you know more than most, there comes a time where the risk isn't worth the reward, and the longer the risk continues the lesser the chance of reward IMO. To clarify to everyone else, by "risk" I mean holding onto Vontae for the hope he realizes his 1st round talent potential.
I agree. I do think, though, that they should give someone like Reggie Bush a contract extension at this point. You have to pull the weeds and water the lawn.
Good call. Definitely agree. Do you feel it's inherent, or has skating by on natural talent conditioned Vontae to where he's now the type who won't wake up until he either hits rock bottom or is introduced to some time of serious awakening slash smack in the face self-realization? Or is he the type who can be temporarily woken up but will always revert back to his irresponsible ways? I'm inclined to say the latter.... unless there's another alternative I'm leaving out that you like better.
Yes. Absolutely! Great analogy btw. I'd give Bush's extension immediately while all this is going on so that it better engrains & links the message into the team's mind. "Don't buy in and you'll be cut or traded. Buy in, sacrifice yourself, and lead by example, and you'll be rewarded." The fans who talk about not re-signing Bush in order to save money are looking at it the wrong way IMO.
What hasn't been said, is what does this staff actually think of the players they inherited..Not so good I would think..
I wanted the extension yesterday..you've set the example for the malcontent, now do it for the guy who does it the right way.
I think he'll always just be an above-average player who could be a great player if he had the personality for it. I don't think he'll hit any rock bottom. He'll simply hover around average to above-average for his entire career. People compare him to his brother in suggesting he may "snap out" of this like Vernon did. However, it's entirely possible that Vontae is the baby brother who will always be a baby, while Vernon is the older brother who is simply more responsible and mature. That's not uncommon with siblings.
huh what I am just seeing this....I worked all weekend, Vontae got got?? I like it, even though they lost value, that has potential to be a 1st half 2nd rounder....the Dolphins are in blow up clear rebuilding mode yet again.... I hope they dangle Bush out there as well at some point.....I wanted to trade Long too, but I have softened, give the guy his money.... For those who think THIS regime will give up picks for Mike Wallace forget about it, it doesnt seem like their MO..... I Buy and Draft a WR.......buy as in D. Bowe next year, draft as in the 1st rounder top 5 pick they are going to have....I had originally predicted 5-11 to 8-8, but this is looking like a 3 or 4 win team this year IMO....
