Merged; Hartline vs. Ginn

Heck at this point i say involve turner also

 

Oh thats good,I was hoping to see Hartline involved more,it is worth it to see what he brings and maybe develop into a good receiver which we really need. I'm still waiting to see about Turner and if they will ever decide to activate him on game day.

 

i wouldnt mind seeing hartline get the start over ginn next week. maybe it will give ginn something to think about and he will stop half assing it.

wasnt ginn benched at one point, in favor of hartline, in one of the previous games?

 

I think Ginn needs to get benched for a game or two to get his mind right. The drops are clearly in his head right now.

 

Hartline looks like a good Wr prospect for us, especially with Ginn's eratic performance this season.

 

I'll take a ham sandwich over Ginn right now. Even an orphan ham sandwich. You know, one without a family.

 

well unless we are going to our run blocking receiver set i think hartline will take time away from camarillo. what makes you think ginn is losing time here

 

Here's where I disagree. I don't think the drops were in his head during the game.

He should've went into yesterday with loads of confidence after that huge TD catch in the Jets game. Everyone was willing to give him a chance and see what he's got.

He even got the nod on kick returns....+1 for confidence.

Then what does he do. He goes out and has another stinker of a game.

Full of confidence or not, Ginn always seems to fold

 

Well, eegads, keep in mind folks the Saints scored 46 points, Ginn's tipp accounted for 7 of them, who is to be pilloried for the other 39 points?

 

His inability to catch the ball when it hits his hands. Just a hunch.

 

Right now our 2 best WRs are Hartline and Camarillo with Bess in the slot on 3 WR sets which we don't run all that much.

Ginn's the odd man out. Does he have potential to make the big play more than Hartline, Bess, and Cam...sure, but we just can't have what we had last night and at the end of the Indy game anymore. It's a big contributor to us losing games.

 

I disagree with benching Ginn right now to "send him a message." We tried that in the San Diego game and it made a bad situation worse.

I think that Ginn's confidence is so shattered right now that a move like that could very well end his career, not just as a Dolphin, but as a player. I think he's on the cusp of completely losing all confidence.

If you, like a lot of us, think that his career is shot anyway, then I could see how you would feel like benching him is a good idea.

But if you're the coach - then I think the last thing you do for your receiver is send him a message that you're listening to outside influences. No, if it's me I would have a tough yet firm meeting with him privately and tell him I still had confidence in him.

Then I would go two my offesive coaches - Dan Henning and Karl Dorrall (who has stayed clean in this whole WR debate, despite the entire unit underperforming) - and start game planning the best way to get Ginn the ball 3-5 times in our first 20 snaps from scrimmage.

I'd then meet again with Ginn - this time publicly - and let everyone know we are going to feature him early and often.

Ted is the type of player that needs constant affirmation to succeed. He's one of those guys that if he starts thinking through things to much seems to struggle.

If he continues to struggle like he has recently for the next 4 games then I would say look at Hartline. But right now is a very serious time for Ginn's Dolphins career. I'd like to see us give him one last shot before benching him and ruining him.

 

First of all, who let the Defense off the hook? This thread is about the WRs. The defense sucking, which they did, is being discussed elswhere

Second, Take that 7 away from NO and give us the ball at the 45 and driving up 24-10, totally different game Padre and you know that.

Plus, if we're gonna play that game, take that 7 away late in the game and we're still up by 1 with 3 minutes left (with the ball) before the final pick 6

 

That play and Bess' fumble prior to the half sealed our fate and put us in shootout mode with Drew Brees...

Ginn's pathetic attempt at that catch was a HUGE play........against us.

 

i dont know. speed kills. ginn's speed is more important than someone's hands if attached to a 4.6 runner

 

VO, I feel pretty confident in saying the San Diego game was a result of Pennington going down and a QB who, up until that point, had take 20% of the offenses snaps in practice coming in ice cold and asked to do a helluva lot on the road. Not to mention a crucial first drive fumble.

I don't think benching Ginn had any affect on this team. He gained all his confidence back with that TD catch against the Jets and then came out and **** the bed yesterday again.

Confidence is not TG's problem

 

No doubt, but the "D" also sort of collapsed as well, and we lost Will Allen.

We are averaging losing one veteran per game now.

 

i dont think he is. ginn is the only one who can stretch the field. i think camarillo may lose time unless we go into that all run set we had in SD. besides, do you want hartline on revis or ginn on revis and hartline on shepard?

 

Hartline's huge catch and run yesterday was as big as any catch Ginn has made in his career. 80 yard play by a guy with 4.6 speed in his rookie year against the top NFC team.

 

so we're going to take time away from the guy who got behind Revis for a 55 yd touchdown?

 

so you prefer hartline being covered by darelle revis? ginn gave revis trouble last time. do you think hartline will give revis trouble?

 

"Needing Ginn to stretch the field" has a very hollow ring to it these days. What is needed is for us to depend on someone else......

 

Maybe,

He did make Darren Sharper look like a fool yesterday and burnt him for like 70 yards. The same Darren Sharper who has the media eating out of his hands this year.

Hartline may not have been able to beat Revis on that big play, but we can be more confident we won't get the crucial 3rd down drops and a guy who will get open, be more available and become more of a consistent target for Henne

 

what has a hollow ring to it is sending someone whio runs a 4.6 against darelle revis. this is not the game to punish ginn. new england might be but not this one. ginn is the only one on our team that can have success against revis. if ginn is silent again we can replace him next game against lesser CBs where his speed may not be missed so much

 

Adam,

The key here is consistency and even you can admit that Hartline and Camarillo have been way more consistent than Ginn. Ginn has never been consistent and I'm now fully confident after yesterday that he never will be.

You can't trade consistency for a guy that's gonna make a big play once every 8 games.

That's why guys like Williemo Pena, Jeff Franceour, and Adam Dunn are not valued more than Derek Jeter.

 

sharper is old and slow and a safety not a shut down corner. i am against having hartline on a number one corner because he wont have any success. hartline does have success however when he can go up against a number two corner or a safety. its all about matchups. even if ginn doesnt catch another pass the rest of the year he still takes out the number one corner and allows our slower receivers to match up against lesser defenders

 

Maybe I am in the minority on this issue, but I feel that Brain Hartline could be a possible 10 year+ veteran for us. All he does is make big plays...

Sound familiar? Sounds like Chris Carter reincarnated to me.

It would be so nice to have a WR as good as Chris Carter for the next decade. I REALLY think Brian Hartline fits the bill.

 

i understand what you're saying but the key here isnt consistency but speed. if you put any receiver other than ginn on a number one CB they will get shutdown. none of our receivers have the athleticism to play number one wr. we are stuck with ginn for the rest of the year good or bad

 

I really think you're hanging onto that TD against Revis a little too hard.

In 2008 Ginn made 3 big plays on Offense (an end around against KC, a TD against Seattle, and the TD against the Jets)

In 2009 he's had 1 big play and we're 6 games in.

Any subpar WR can produce 4 big plays in 22 games.

The way you're thinking, we should've just traded a 6th round pick for Yamon Figurs who could also outrun most #1 CBs.

 

And what's disheartening is he just came off a game he should have built on with his big catch against the Jets.

Its one step forward, two steps back with him, its very frustrating!

 

This^

 

Whether you want to believe it or not having Ginn on the field does make the safety play deeper than he usually would, which does open up the short/intermediate game for everyone else.

Regardless of how many catches he makes a defense CANT let him get behind them, which he can on any given play.

 

you need speed. you simply cant go with a receiver set where the fastest guy runs a 4.5 or 4.6. as annoying as it might be we need ginn because he offers something that none of the others do which is speed. that is why i can see bess or camarillo losing time but not ginn

 

I don't know man. I think Brian Hartline is Wes Welker on steroids (but not really ). How can anyone not want this kid to start is beyond me at this time?...

He is big/fast/strong/and runs great routes! Also, he catches pretty much everything that is thrown in his directions.