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[Merged] Dolphins and County agree on framework for stadium deal...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CANEPHINS, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I know that.
     
  2. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But the comissioners voting against the referrendum are FOR the deal. If the referendum doesn't pass the comissioners can just take a vote and approve the proposal.
     
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  3. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Ross opened his books to the county and he apparently lost $27m in 2010. Yikes.
     
  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Ahhh...makes sense!
     
  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Thats really just writing down his debt.
     
  6. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Find that very hard to believe. Ticket sales were good in 2010.
     
  7. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    The way i thought it was, the Dolphins failed to get support for the deal on the local and/or state level, so they proposed a referendum to force the politicians hand. The deal does not require a referendum, so if the Dolphins can get an agreement, there is no need for a public vote.
     
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was actually Gimenez who proposed the referendum and the Dolphins agreed to it after it appeared that they wouldn't get state or local support without it. Go back through the articles, Mike Dee said numerous times that there was not enough time for a referendum due to the late May awarding of Super Bowl 50, which is the one they really want. Only after it looked like they were getting shot down before they even got started did the Fins agree to a referendum.

    I imagine at the end of the day, the votes will be there for a referendum because these politicians don't want this vote on their record. Much easier to say "the people have spoken" one way or the other.
     
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  9. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    The referendum received the six votes that it needed to pass.
     
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  10. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it was Gimenez. He does appear to be on the side of the Dolphins on this. I also agree it'll go to referendum, it gives the politicians the escape door of the public vote.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I really do wonder if this whole development changes the draft strategy.
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It certainly should. There are a number of people on this forum who said their vote would be swayed simply because Miami drafted Tavon Austin.
     
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  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Thing is, there's this idealistic, general, vague talk about "best practices" and standards, business side not interfering with the football side, etc.

    Yeah, that sounds great. But this is $200 million sitting in a briefcase right in front of you.

    That's not some vague promise of an upside. It's not a general business practice that in the long run could give you the edge you need to be successful. It's $200 million of value that could be added to the value of Ross' asset.

    So let's say the coaches prefer Jon Cooper at 12 but they've also got a high grade on Tavon Austin. They think if they took Jon Cooper they'd have a better chance to win more games.

    $200 million more worth of games?

    Because in order to make his franchise asset $200 million more valuable over the next five years the Dolphins would in all likelihood have to average a 10-6 record with at least 1 championship. Jon Cooper over Tavon Austin is the difference maker that gets them that?

    I'm not even necessarily trying to single out Austin as the answer that's going to win them the referendum. There's a lot of in's and out's here. Maybe this referendum makes the issue D.O.A. no matter what they do in the Draft. Maybe it's got such support from local business leaders that they can take Luke Marquadt at 12 overall and it wouldn't matter. I don't know.

    But they should be doing their best right now to figure that out on a WWRD basis.

    Note: WWRD means "What Would Riley Do?"
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    How was the bold determined?
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Agreed CK.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that a special-election in mid-May is going to get extremely low turnout. The Dolphins don't necessarily need to convince people to vote for their side, they just need their supporters to go out and vote. Making a pick that excites the fan base will go a long way toward getting those fans to go to the polls. It even is a more appealing option when you consider that Austin is a good prospect in addition to being a sexy pick. Football fans are extremely passionate people, and if they can harness that passion in their favor, it will be very beneficial.

    Even to take things a step further, theres very little doubt in my mind that the high-turnover we have seen this off-season was in-part planned to coincide with their request for request for public assistance.
     
  16. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mike Mayo and Billy Corben are having an interesting dialogue on Twitter regarding the deal. The Dolphins are really only paying back $170 of nearly $400 million in public funds, in 30 years, without accounting for interest or inflation.

    Also, the law in Florida needs to be changed to even allow this bed tax increase, regardless of the results of the referendum, so any argument that these funds can only be used on stadiums is complete hogwash. These funds don't and can't even exist under the current law, and if you want them, you could ask for them to apply to anything.

    Personally, if we're raising bed taxes, let's keep all the money and use it on schools, etc.
     
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  17. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    How in the world did they reach that conclusion? Doing the math, I don't see how they ever get near $400M?
     
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  18. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    That's odd. I wonder where this $400M figure is coming from?

    $7.5M over 30 years only comes to $220M.
     
  19. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    $289 million from bed tax over 26 years, $90 million from state in sales tax rebated over 30 years. Fins to repay $120 million from bed tax, $47 million from rebate in 2044 at today's dollars.

    The promise to repay is almost worthless. Anything could happen in 30 years. The state might be underwater (literally( by then
     
  20. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And the deal gets stinkier:

    http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2013/04/bruno_barreiro_happily_carrys.php

     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    That $289M figure for the TDT is extremely misleading.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's also a really good point.

    So the more accurate poll question should not be, "Would drafting Tavon Austin change your mind about the stadium funding" but actually, "Would drafting Tavon Austin entice you to get off your *** and vote?"
     
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  23. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2013/04/10/00/24/1bOjYd.So.56.pdf

    See page 87 of that document. That is the "deal" in PDF format. You can see the whole thing on the Miami Herald's website. the total amount paid to the Dolphins over the 30 years is $289 million.
     
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  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Again, misleading. Appendix 1 is not a payout schedule. See Article 3 for the County's obligations.
     
  25. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's unclear to me, without a full lawyerly reading of the document which I will do in the coming days, whether the $289 million is the full amount of the bed tax, or if the Fins will be getting 75% of that. Even at 75% the Fins wills till receive $216 million and change with the obligation to repay far less than that
     
  26. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    See page 38 for the definitions, the annual payment to the Fins is the lesser of 75% of the actual TDT or the number listed in appendix 1. The document is ambiguous and contradictory. I need to read the whole thing and digest it, but if the bed tax contribution is capped at $125 then there is no need for any of the other language. Not sure if "par amount" was defined in the document
     
  27. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Seems like the "par" value is $125 but the actual payments are much higher.
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It can't be the full amount, because its impossible to predict. Those are maximum permitted deposits from the TDT to the bond trustee.
     
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  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It isn't ambiguous. Appendix 1 is a provision to lower subsidies to the Dolphins below 75% of the TDT. At no time would Miami ever receive more than 75% of the TDT, but they could receive less. Its there to protect the county.
     
  30. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    The Marquee Event section is interesting.
     
  31. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Is it $200 mil or 289?
     
  32. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The payout is $289 million. Everyone agrees on this number

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/10/3336080/miami-dolphins-stadium-renovation.html


     
  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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  34. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the 289M the total amount of the TDT increase, of which the Dolphins receive only 75%?
     
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No, the $289 is the maximum the Dolphins could be paid out. If the TDT generates $1T, surely nobody would want the Dolphins getting 75% of that.
     
  36. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    So the 3% estimated annual growth is what takes the figure from what was thought, to the $289M? That annual growth is not guaranteed and the year it is not met, will not carry over the difference to the next year?
    So the Dolphins could expect anywhere from $195M to $289M in 26 years?
     
  37. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Dolphins get the lesser of 75% of the actual TDT or the numbers on the chart in appendix 1. Appendix 1 is the floor, not the ceiling
     
  38. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They got the lesser, which means it is the ceiling. They can never receive more than the stated amounts in appendix 1.
     
  39. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    That's not what Appendix 1 says:

    "In each Payment Year during the TDT Funding Period, the County shall pay the Bond Trustee on the first day of each month seventy-five percent (75%) of the TDT Collections received the preceding month until the annual amounts shown below have been payed for that Payment Year"

    That sure sounds like the ceiling.
     
  40. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Any overages from the TDT are put into a reserve fund up to $4M. If there are any shortfalls, the difference is drawn from that reserve fund. If that reserve fund is empty, then the Dolphins are on the hook for the shortfall. This prevents any type of disaster like what happened in Minnesota.
     
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