[Merged] Dolphins and County agree on framework for stadium deal...

I'm sorry but you are wrong. This is a lie perpetuated by the likes of Dee and others promoting the tax increase.

The state legislature (which has to change state law to allow this to happen at all, and that I believe has a real chance of not happening) can pass a bill to allow the local county collecting the tax to designate it for use any way they wish.

 

The mainland hotels and motels are the ones that benefit the most from Super Bowls being played in Miami. Hotels on the beach are going to be full regardless.

This is why the Greater Miami and the Beaches Hotel Association endorses the plan, along with pretty much every major business group in Miami.

 

Also worth mentioning that the state legislature is about to give Daytona Speedway a $60M subsidy:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/a...ay-tax-deal-gets-Senate-committee-green-light

 

But it's money that the county could be asking the state legislature to allow them to raise to pay for public works (firemen, policemen, school teachers, etc.), instead they are asking them to allow them to raise it to remodel a stadium for the 83rd richest man in the US to enhance his stadium, and business interest.

Dude this is even a stretch for the most conservative politico.

 

The stadium enhances a lot more businesses than Stephen Ross'. Miami is a tourism city. A new stadium increases tourism. More tourism = more economic activity. More economic activity = more money for fireman and policemen.

 

You must be from the Jeffrey Loria school of hearing.....

 

With so many major businesses supporting this, I think there is going to be a much larger edge in turnout for those supporting this. We haven't even seen the campaign start yet.

 

That still does not change the fact that the money comes from the bed tax, and not directly from taxes to residents. I have lived in Miami for 15 years and have never used a hotel in the city. That is true for most of the residents. One time emergency use like yours are the exception.
Also, Miami Beach does contribute half of the 6% bed tax, they only do not contribute the amount dedicated ONLY for Sports.

 

Ok so the money can be used for whatever if they change the laws. Got it.

 

Well that hasn't actually been made clear, at least from what I have read or heard.

But I think people don't understand that the hotel taxes are imposed on top of regular sales taxes. So when you get your bill you pay over 13% now if you are using a hotel room on Miami Beach, and only 12% roughly on the mainland. If you are staying for business a week at the 4 Seasons near Brickell Avenue, this means your bill will go up about $ 36 a person for a week.

A friend of mine runs a bodybuilding show that he's had the last 10+ years at a downtown Miami hotel. He is seriously thinking of moving the show to Broward County if this goes through, as it would cost him, and all of his contestants more money than to do it in Broward.

 

A good as renovation sounds, I'm just not convinced that there aren't better ways for Ross to finance this without putting the public on the hook. Have yet to hear why he can't go to a bank with this.

 

So the construction companies are going to take 30 years to be paid off ? Someone has to pay them and their workers.....nice of them to be so understanding.

 

It's this very accounting blunder that will cost the taxpayers of Miami-Dade $ 2 billion for the Marlins Stadium. If you need to raise the money by a tax, that comes AFTER you have the money to pay for the stadium, and you finance the refund by selling bonds at a high interest rate. This $ 200 million will turn into probably $ 1 billion that needs to be raised by the tax - so that tax goes on and on and on.......for years.

 

That is also a very valid argument. I'll say that since both parties (the Dolphins and the Country) are the beneficiary of present and future success of the franchise, i think it is at the very least understandable that the county contributes in part.

Also, if the money is not used for this, considering the state of South Florida politics, it will either be lost to corruption or be granted in very likely another crappy deal to fund something else that perhaps is less important.

 

Is there any reliable polling that would tell which way the public is going to swing on this? Is approval a foregone conclusion?

 

This is the only way to fund infrastructure. The government cannot pool tax income for 10 years in order to pay for something cash down in the 10th year. Politicians and interests change and the money would be used for something else along the way. You can only do your best to trust the politicians that they do their job correctly and not fawk up.

 

I have not seen any. I think the lack of interest is a positive sign for the deal. As it is, i think the "yes" group is much more motivated to go and vote than the "no" group. That could change though.

 

The Herald has a poll up. 998 votes have be cast and right now it's 69% For/30% Against.

http://blogs.herald.com/random_evid...ay-at-3-pm-on-790-the-ticket-and-fm-1043.html

 

Not really. State law says that local counties have the right to raise up to 6% surcharge tax on hotel/motel rooms. An exception was made and passed through the legislature, and by the taxpayers of Miami-Dade in or around 2002 to allow for there to be an extra 1% added to hotels on the Island of Miami Beach, which allows for hotels in Miami Beach, Sunny Isles, Golden Beach, and North Miami Beach to raise that money for the county.

The county then wrote the law, approved by public vote to use that money for works the County deemed to be helpful for tourist development. I voted for that because at the time, it was to be used to help renovate Miami Beach Convention Center, Downtown Miami convention center, Dinner Key Auditorium and public parks such as Tropical Park and Greynolds Park. Then very controversally they brought up the county wanted to build the Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts. It's cost was to be about $ 200 million. It then ballooned to more than a $ 500 million cost, and forced the county to extend the tax beyond its life (and did this without a public vote, which many feel was illegal).

Actually the tax already imposed on those Beach hotels/motels is probably illegal, but none of our polititians has the guts to challenge it. The tax was supposed to end in 2005 and is still illegally being collected today.

 

Yeah, Ross is putting the money up upfront.

 

None, and polling the race is going to be enar impossible. You are talking about a special county election, in the middle of May, for a proposal that doesn't seem to have much stakes for the average voter. If Ross was threatening to leave next season if this didn't pass you might see a sense of urgency, but that's not the case.

The biggest reason I might give passage of the proposal a leg up (putting aside whether or not it's a good idea) is that in a low turnout election like this is sure to be, we're talking 25% turnout max I imagine, money can be the deciding factor, and Ross is willing to throw a lot of it around to get people to the polls. I imagine that churches and other civic organizations who have the clout to convince people to vote for something will be seeing some "walking around money" coming from the Fins in the enxt few weeks.

 

Nothing reliable, no.

 

It's such stupidity to think the only ones that can pay for this are Miami-Dade County. If they really want to move then Broward County can pay for a new stadium. Why do they have to move completely out of the area.

Such stupid people......

 

I saw that, but I don't really consider it to be reliable. Do you?

 

Well glad to hear you say you really don't understand the what the deal is. I am guessing then you will recuse yourself from the rest of the discussion ?

 

Anything that doesn't project voter turnout isn't reliable.

 

...as soon as you do?

 

What I'm wondering, since this referendum is coming a mere TWO WEEKS after the draft...is:

A) What does Steve Ross say if Jeff Ireland is in his office telling him that his "big plan" for the Draft is to take Chance Warmack, Jon Cooper or D.J. Fluker?

B) Would Jeff Ireland's plans for the Draft have figured into Miami's desire to get this referendum voted on so close to the Draft?

 

Internet polls are unscientific and meaningless.

CK, as a finance guy, does this propsoed deal make any sense to you? I don;t even really udnerstand why Ross is leaving it to chance since it's essentially a low interest county loan. Why not just go to one of his banks and get a normal low interest loan, which he could certianly get?

 

The refferendum date is based upon the timeframe for the NFL awarding Super Bowls 50 and 51, which is at the end of May.

 

I created a poll trying to gauge this:

http://www.thephins.com/forums/poll.php?pollid=822&do=showresults

Really indicates that it would be in Miami's best interest to draft Austin.

 

He is the 83rd richest man in the US, why does he need us to pay for part of it ? If he doesn't have the cash himself, why can't he get a bank loan for the $ 200 million ? Doesn't he have the credit to do it ?

 

Well I haven't really dived into any details of the plan, nor do I intend to, but I don't think Steve Ross can just walk into a Fifth Third and ask for a couple hundred million dollar line of credit, so it is a little more complicated than just going out and getting a "normal low interest loan".

 

Its the opposite of a county loan. Its Stephen Ross loaning money to the county for them to subsidize part of the renovations. He's essentially paying almost the upfront costs. The subsidy is given back over time. For Ross, this is beneficial, because when someone is looking to buy the Dolphins, they see all the tax rebates and small subsidies coming in every year. Businesses love lowering tax liabilities.

 

Did you miss the part where Ross is putting up more than $200M for this?

 

So then the likelihood is low that the push for an immediate referendum had anything to do with confidence based on Ireland's plans.

That leaves us with question A...what does Steve Ross do if Ireland comes to him with a very "Parcellsian" draft plan?

 

A man with Ross's assets should be able to get private financing for a project like this, at competetive interest rates, I would imagine. But this kind of stuff is far from my field of expertise.

 

Probably not, but do you think what has happened was worth it for the tax-payers of Miami-Dade ?

Why is Ross so adamant that it has to be ONLY Miami-Dade to pay for this, why not Broward ?

 

I suppose Ireland might be under some pressure to not take a guard (which would be dumb anyway) but they did already sign Wallace and got positive buzz from free agency, so it might not be a huge deal.

And it's not like Austin is so well known with a huge clamoring for him. It's not like 2007 where everyone was screaming about Brady Quinn for weeks ahead of time.

 

Broward would never agree to it,as they have no incentive to do so. The stadium is located in Miami-Dade and all Super Bowl events will be held in downtown Miami from now on.