Merged: Ahahaha. Once a cheat, always a cheat / DeflateGate

I'm not saying they aren't. I'm saying that at this point, that theory holds as much credence as the theory that Patriots deflated the ball/s.

 

Not really. No one wanted this to be a non-story more than the NFL. Had the majority of the balls been only slightly under the limit I think we would have heard about that from the onset and the talking point would be why that one ball was defective.

 

Disagree. Look at the timeline, and who released what information. It wasn't the league. It was by people associated with the Colts. When info started leading from the league, we got info like the fact that no numbers were recorded for PSI of Colts or Patriots balls, either pre-game or halftime.

It's not like the NFL released this damning info, and then tried to catch-up and bury it into a non-story. It was released by people with a vested interest in the Colts, and made into a huge story, with pretty much zero proof.

 

The proof was this:

1. These balls were low!! (even though reports now disagree)
2. Patriots cheated with Spygate!!
3. That means they deflated balls!!!
4. WHERE'S MY PITCHFORK?!! BAN THEM ALL!!

 

What would be the motive for the colts to frame the pats?

 

I still don't get people discounting what Jimmy Johnson said about the filming. This is a guy who coached in the NFL for how many years? Who called out two specific people by name, two people who have not rebutted his statement (well one is dead so obviously he can't). He says it was commonplace but people on an internet forum ask, "how do we know it was commonplace?" Well a superbowl winning coach, a former Dolphins coach said it was. And provided proof. Called out the guy who taught him how to do it, and called out the guy who, in his opinion, was the best at it. The best in the "entire league."

On top of that, he also described the tactics. Saying you do it from the press box, just put a camera next to the other cameras, but when the pressbox is on the opposite team's side you had to get creative. But let's ignore that and assume the Patriots were the only one to do it.

Did Jimmy ever say when he stopped doing it? Do we know for a fact he didn't film the opposing team while coach of the Dolphins?

So, while we're sitting here calling the Patriots cheaters, did the Dolphins do this while Jimmy was our coach? Someone needs to ask him. If he did, then we are cheaters too.

 

The NFL made a decision to hire Wells, hire a video surveillance expert and drag the Patriots organization through the mud, all based on the results of testing the balls at half time. If the results were as trivial as the new report makes them out to be do you really think they would go to those lengths?

 

Although he doesn't come out and say it, I think the implication in this quote is that JJ stopped once the league issued a memo.

 

I don't think JJ was even coaching anymore. The memo came out in 2006.

This is how I feel. Did the Patriots violate the rule? Yes. Were they the only ones? No. Did they stop when told to? No. Were they wrongfully punished? No. They deserved it.

Does it taint their Championships? No. If the memo went out in 1999 and everyone but the Patriots stopped then I would feel it cast a shadow over their rings. But I'm pretty sure this was more widespread than someone would lead you to believe. Coaches have hired lip readers, etc.

Our very own Jim Langer says he remembers the Dolphins having to chase actual spies from the bushes outside of practice, the week leading up to the Super Bowl against the Redskins.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-historynflcheating

Keep in mind, the Patriots were filming the coaches during the game, in front of 70,000 people or whatever. Doesn't make it right, at all, but provided a slight advantage compared to spying on teams while practicing.

Al Davis pretended to be a reporter interviewing the opposing player! That's hilarious.

I can totally see Davis doing these.

 

Reading up on George Allen he seems pretty intense. First to employ a full time security officer to prevent spying. That is of course, because he was the one who was doing the spying. His guys were caught by the Cowboys (and Dolphins of course).

 

Well, I don't know. Sour apples? If you listen to someone like Esiason, who played for years, he claims this is how the NFL is. Cut throat and back-stabbing.

Perhaps the NFL hired Wells after this thing blew up to epic proportions, due to the team involved?

 

That's all fine and dandy, but I fail to see where you addressed my post.

 

You referred to Brady as "mediocre." I don't think anyone really needs address any of it.

 

The NFL as a whole, probably. The NFL executive at the forefront of all of this, no. Mike Kensil was President of the Jets when Belichick spurned them for the Patriots. Ever since then, allegedly he's been telling his close associates he's going to get Bill Belichick back one day. He was still with the Jets during Spygate. And apparently he's in charge of the investigation or at least heavily involved.

I don't think it's the Colts at all, so I disagree with resnor. But I suspect, if anyone is involved, it's him. He HATES Belichick. Like slept with his wife hates him.

 

Because they don't want their team to be called cheater? Duh.

Jimmy Johnson called two people out by name. Have you heard any rebuttals? Exactly. If someone calls you a cheater, or your organization wouldn't they defend themselves if not guilty? Mudd followed Marty around, and coached the Eagles and the Seahawks. How come he is not defending his honor? He also coached the Colts during Peyton's time. During his 12 years there, the Colts had the fewest sacks and Manning credits Mudd's oline for that. Perhaps he had the other side's calls then.

Why is Mudd not defending his name? He has not made one statement about the allegation. Did the NFL go to him and interview him? Did any reporter go ask him? NO and NO. So why haven't 31 teams come forward? Because the rabbit hole is deep. Let's start with ALL of Peyton's success in Indy, including his lone super bowl win.

 

Okay. If it comes out these teams cheated, then they ought to be treated as cheaters with tainted records. Not sure what the dilemma here is.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4

 

Interesting, I didn't know about that angle but I still think Goodell et al would rather seen this not been a story at all.

 

Kind of ironic that his name is Mudd.

 

I'm not saying I believe the Colts deflated the ball. I'm saying that's an alternate theory out there, with people in the know who believe. At this point, it's just as believable, read, just as much proof, as the theory that the Patriots deflated the balls. It's interesting how some cling to one theory, while completely dismissing another, all without any proof.

 

This might be the craziest thing you've posted in this thread. I'd have to go back through and look, but I think this is it. Obvious you're being influenced by your location a bit.

 

No doubt about it. Although, he`ll try and convince us otherwise, but its playing a huge part in his Patriot protective theories.
And I`d like to know how the Colts were able to deflate the rest of the balls even though it was "just a tic", "just a hair", "just a minimal amount" , of air lost. The Patriot believers love to diminish the importance of all this by using words that try to lessen the degree of possible wrongdoing through scandalous actions.

 

It is buried. Nobody is going to call them out. It's been 8 years. Nobody is digging it up.

 

Oh he wishes this weren't a thing, trust me. I agree with you there. Keep in mind it was just a review, until it blew up, now they're forced to call it an investigation. How did this leak so fast? Scuttlebutt was, it was Kensil leaking all of this. Including the fact the NFL thought it was a serious violation stuff. Rumor is Kensil is the one doing all of that and forced their hands. Who knows.

I said from day one, Kraft, Brady and Belichick all went out and laid their legacy on the line and unequivocally denied any wrongdoing. As a Dolphins forum I expected some skepticism on our members but everyone was so quick to call them liars and obviously guilty parties. I wasn't so quick to think so, since we had ZERO facts except 11 out of 12 balls were deflated, and everything else was false. But when Bill, Tom and Bob came out and said we didn't do ish, and the NFL better apologize when they find nothing, I believed them. You don't lay your legacy on the line like that, all future HOF'ers, unless you know you didn't do anything.

They might be sneaky sumbeaches but they're not stupid. They're all very very smart. So from that point on I believed them. I might be wrong, but my gut says they wouldn't lay it all on the line like that because you can never recover.

 

That's silly. What's ridiculous is the notion that most seem to have, that being, that if you're a Dolphins fan, you have to automatically subscribe to whatever theory paints the Patriots in the worst light, no matter if there is proof, or not. Currently, there is zero proof for anything.

The other balls, if under "just a tick", seem to lend credence to the natural deflation theory. In other words, they didn't deflate a whole lot, just a very small amount...which is basically what many experts were saying would be the case, given that the temperatures weren't really extreme.

 

Yes, I live in NE, surrounded by obnoxious fans, and have had to listen to Patriots fans gloat every time they beat us for the last 20+ years of my life. But I wouldn't LOVE for there to be proof that they actually tampered with balls. You guys are SO RIGHT!! I never realized I was actually a Patriots fan!!

Stop with the garbage questioning fandom crap. Perhaps it's just that, I don't know, there's NO PROOF of anything at this point.

 

Why is it crazy? Adam Schefter reported the very thing he is saying.

http://nesn.com/2015/02/adam-schefter-there-are-people-who-believe-colts-deflated-patriots-football/

Everything in quotes is by Schefter.

Seeing as only one ball is allegedly largely deflated, and that ball was handled by the Colts, and NONE of the other balls were deflated by that much, and Matt Kensil was involved, which one is more likely? I don't think either is true. But based on that evidence, you think the Patriots only deflated one ball? What's the point of that?

 

Careful jdang...you might not be a true Dolphins fan...

 

Once again you guys are right back to completely ignoring the statistical evidence that demonstrates Patriots have been using inflated footballs for quite some time.

And are you really saying that because Adam Schefter reported "There are people that believe that..." lends any credence to a crazy conspiracy theory?

Ok. There are people that believe the Holocaust is made up. There are people that believe Elvis is still alive. There are people that believe

Should we put any stock in that?
​

 

Anyone know of a timeframe placed on this investigation of when there will be an offical conclusion and possibly the full report being released to the public. Seems like it is being dragged out.

 

Remind me again why the balls on the other sideline were perfect , with the same inflation numbers at halftime as they were before the game.

 

............and Clinton never had sexual relations with that woman.

 

The time frame will probably be whenever the NFL feels somewhat confident enough that the general public cares a whole lot less about this story.

 

...so, this makes Pats cheating present-day okay.

 

"I know there a people who believe that"


So Schefter reads Internet forums. Who woulda thunk it.

 

Remind me again what the numbers were on the balls on the other sideline? Again, IF their balls were at 13.5psi, and experienced slight deflation, they would have been within the limits. If the Patriots balls were at 12.5psi, which should be the case because that's where Brady likes them, and experienced slight deflation, they'd be slightly below.

The argument that the Colts balls experienced no deflation is simply a theory that has no proof. This is why it's a big deal that no numbers from either check were recorded.

 

You disagree that Brady was mediocre coming out of college? I think mediocre was generous considering he was picked in the 6th round.

 

I'm still not seeing it. You're dancing around the issue. Also, I went back to 2002, and I didn't see one single season where Manning was the least sacked QB. However, I have seen where the Pats are turning the ball over at a statistically impossible rate.

 

Ok fine, your Patriots are legit through and through no need to continue with a meaningless accusation. Enjoy your super bowl title.

 

This is the part I have most difficulty reconciling if the Patriots are indeed innocent.