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Mel Kiper lukewarm on Dolphins Draft - gives us a B-

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by cobrajet, May 3, 2011.

  1. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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  2. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    thats actually a fairly good score from him. I don't disagree with his thoughts. If Mike doesn't come any near Maurkice's status, we definitely too him too early. We'll see.
     
  3. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Fair grade and analysis. Ireland showed he is no master of working the draft. Didn't end up getting any steals. Ended up with two less draft picks at the end of the draft than he started with. No one will be mistaking Ireland for Belichick anytime in the near future.
     
  4. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    can't really tell if anyones a steal until they start playing the games, but for what its worth, Gates wasn't supposed to still be there in the 4th.

    And the fact that we got a 2nd rounder without giving up a 1st next year is very good and showed some pretty good drafting skill on Irelands part.
     
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  5. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Personally I would have taken Ingram or Vereen at 15 or traded down altogether. That is not to say that Pouncey was a bad pick, he was not, but this draft was pretty deep in the offensive line positions and he probably would have been there later. Besides, there was always Stefen Wisniewski who was a very good pick and could have played either G or C.
     
  6. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    There's no doubt that Puncey's name did him a lot of favors, but Ingram had a swarm of negativity around him leading up to the draft. Not so great 40 time, some past injury info, blah blah. I wanted him at 15, so i agree with you, but i see why they thought Pouncey was the better move.
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Respectfully, Ireland worked this draft extremely well.

    Instead of reaching for a QB at #15 like many fans wanted , he took a guy who improves our horrendous ground game & pass protection and immediately makes us better. The best way to help a young QB develop is to run the ball successfully, and we couldn't do that for garbage last year. Pouncey was a necessary pick b/c we could NOT afford to miss on Oline.

    potential 2nd rounder Gates going in the 4th doesn't represent great value? Disagree.

    Getting 3rd round talent Charles Clay in the 6th isn't a potential steal? Disagree again.

    Landing the draft's 1st or 2nd best big back in the 2nd round (where he was projected by many) might not be a steal, but to knock the pick b/c it cost us 2 late round picks is uncalled for. We had NO starting running backs. Would you rather have waited till the 3rd round and taken whomever was left even though he'd likely be inferior? Would you prefer to sacrifice your future starting running back to keep your 5th & 7th rounders?

    Seriously, you have to ask yourself what's more important?---- your #1 running back on a running team (that doesnt currently have one) or a 5th rounder who is less likely to be a starter along with a 7th rounder who is unlikely to be on the team in a year. So for that, Ireland earns an A+ for moving up to draft our starting running back who would've been GONE by our next pick.

    So who would you have rather taken in the first round if you're hung up on getting steals? And what "steals" did Belichick get? A kid with health concerns? A backup QB whom EVERY team passed on at least twice?

    What matters most is---- did this draft improve us? Answer- yes. We changed our offensive dynamics overnight. We ditched its predictability overnight. We ditched our lack of both playmaking ability and athleticism overnight. This draft gave us 4 key components to our offense that we previously lacked and sorely needed, so I'm not sure how you can knock this....... or how you can knock us virtually transforming our offense if these guys pan out like planned.


    Our first 4 picks combined represent much greater value than their rounds would indicate as a whole. That in and of itself represents drafting solid value.



    PS: Considering no one from this draft has played an NFL snap, what do you constitute as a "steal"?
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Fair enough, this draft more or less hinges on Daniel Thomas, if he is a stud feature back and goes off for 1,200 yds then Ireland had a successful draft, if he pulls a hammy and misses 5 games, Ireland will have had a poorish draft as 1 starter is not a great draft.
     
  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm lukewarm on the concept of grading a draft before snap one of football has been played after it.
     
  10. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Grading in school must have changed at some point and I didn't get the memo. The last time I checked a C was average and a B was better than average.

    When was the last time you heard someone use the term "lukewarm" to describe "better than average"? And why in the hell would replace his opinion with your opinion when he put a freaking GRADE on it?
     
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  11. PhinsPhan23

    PhinsPhan23 New Member

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    Have to agree with everything here. Hard to say who will and won't be a steal when nobody has taken an NFL snap. In the end, we addressed positions that we desperately needed help in. Hard to say if these guys will pan out, but I think it's safe to say that Pouncey should be a solid starter at worst, Thomas should be a solid rotational back at worst, and Gates should be a solid KR at worst. The rest of the draft are upside plays that if they pan out will make this draft an A- at worst.
     
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  12. PhinsPhan23

    PhinsPhan23 New Member

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    Again, you have no idea who will and won't be starting from this draft. That being said, 1 starter in 2011 for a team that didn't have a 2nd round pick and had to move up into the late 2nd to get one, is not that bad. I think it's safe to say Daniel Thomas is going to get every opportunity to be the primary back. If it doesn't work out, but Gates ends up being a great KR and the rest of the guys stay on the roster and contribute, I give this draft a solid B+. If Thomas ends up being a productive starter and gets productive 15+ carries each week, an A- is deserving. Thomas doesn't need to be elite for this draft to be a success.
     
  13. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    That's pretty funny considering Kiper gave the Patsies a C+ even though they had they made 3 more selections.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/28628/kiper-gives-out-team-draft-grades
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Common sense, Pouncey will start, Dtrain is most likely to start, Clay, Gates, Wilson, Kearse, have no real shot at starting but can be effective especially Gates and Wilson on ST's, meaning Clay is sort of the wildcard here, no one has any idea what his contribution will be for us.
     
  15. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Editors, man. The unnamed editor (the guys who write the titles) strikes again!
     
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  16. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    No master? Who are you comparing him too? Belichick? Because Belichick is supposed to be a "master" and most experts give the Patsies a lower draft grade than they give the Dolphins.
     
  17. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    This was the best part of the article

     
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  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I definitely agree with this sentiment. I can remember all of the sportswirters overdosing on Viagra when the Cardinals drafted Matt Leinart, or when the Raiders drafted JaMarcuss Russell or when Detroit drafted Joey Harrington.

    How did that turn out again? I say grade the draft at the end of the season. How many draftees played? How many draftees performed as expected? How many draftees contributed significantly to their team's success...or failure.

    THEN grade the draft.
     
  19. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    I agree with the need to build the OL first, but I actually thought Stephan Wiesneski was a lock for this team, and not Pouncy. Wiesneski (sp?) was more versatile playing both G and C with a former background at T and would have been on the board longer allowing us to grab another RB at 15.

    I was personally surprised that we selected a NT instead of someone to replace Vernon Carey whose footwork is getting slow. I also don't think that our ground game was that bad last year, I think we had two RB's who milked the season because they didn't want to be injured going into FA at the end of the season.

    I think brighter days lie ahead and lets hope that we find someone to address the need for speed at KR, WR and RB. Onward => to training camp!
     
  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I get what you're saying Cobra, but you cant operate under the assumption it's ok to pass on a player of great need because another player might be available later.

    Wisniewski ended up being drafted by the Raiders before we picked in the 2nd round, so we would've missed out completely on an impact LG/C who can start from day 1. Pouncey/Daniel Thomas is probably as good a combo as Ingram and any late2nd/3rd round LG/C. Thomas is also a better fit for what Daboll wants to do IMO.
     
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  21. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Yep, I agree. Sometimes you have to do - what you have to do. The end of the tale was a good one, we got some awfully good players for Daboll to work with. In my mind however the jury is still out on Daboll altogether. His offense was pitiful in Cleveland and seeing that our QB coach who is charged with changing our ailing QB situation has no experience at the position, it scares me a little. There are a ton of unneeded variables here. But, hey man, that's why they play the game. All we can do is sit, watch and hope for the best on game day. Lets hope for double digits in win column this year.
     
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  22. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Well what have we here. Someone who hasn't even shown up since Beck was a QB on the roster :tongue2:
     
  23. PhinPhanatic

    PhinPhanatic New Member

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    As am I. Also luke ice cold on Kiper (except for his hair).
     
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  24. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    im pretty sure quiz rogers in the 5th is a steal.
     
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  25. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    And yet once again the Patriots set themselves up with "2" first round picks again next year. Every year the Patriots set themselves up in the early rounds with multiple picks. They got perhaps the best OT in the draft, a decent CB and perhaps the best QB in the draft.

    Tell me Dolphin fans wouldn't be giving the Miami an A+ if they thought we got perhaps the best OT, QB, a decent DB, and RBs while getting an extra 1st round pick next year.

    I love the Dolphins, but only a fool would think Belichick isn't one of the best ever at working the draft. Do all of his pick pan out? NO. But NO team has all their picks pan out. But NO other team sets themselves up to have multiple 1st, 2nd, and/or 3rd round picks each and every year. There is a reason the Patriots have been the best team in the past decade along with the Steelers (whom also know how to draft).

    I am guessing Mel's grade has more to do with him being convinced the Patriots needed to draft Ingram at 28. I like Mel, but it appears to me over the years when a team doesn't do what Mel thinks they should he usually drops their grade.
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Right, because the 7th QB drafted is always considered the best QB of the draft. :shifty: The draft has happened; it's now proven that Ryan Mallet is not thought of as the franchise caliber player that fans thought he was, so please stop talking about him as if he's the missed savior of our organization.
     
  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    well once upon a time the 6th QB taken ...

    6th because of drugs ... and mobility ... (4 knee surgeries) .... Just sayin! ;)
     
  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    was that before Mallett was even born? just sayin. :tongue2:
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Some analysts thought Gates was a steal. He was rated a 2nd rounder by several analysts. Some commented that Clay was very good value in the 6th. While we may not mistake him for Belichick, who trades for picks much better than he makes picks, we won't mistake Ireland for Wannestedt on draft day either. I can live with that.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    IMO, the are going to regret passing over Castonzo for Solder when it's all said and done. The Colts can't believe their good fortune. I would have taken Castonzo over Smith too.
     
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  31. Phinatic19

    Phinatic19 New Member

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    Pretty sure Mel Kiper is a dumb *** and his opinion is crap.
     
  32. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    :lol: I challenge you to show me "ONE" post I have made that in any way indicates "he's the missed savior of our organization" as you are indicating.

    It appears to me you are just making stuff as you go along without any basis in reality.
     
  33. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    You may be right, wouldn't surprise me at all.
     
  34. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Considering that we didn't trade next year's first round pick for a second round pick this year I would agree with that. As good as JJ was at the draft, Wanny was the polar opposite.
     
  35. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    no one can predict the 2011 draft future
    everything: speculation, opinion, educated guess
    having said that
    Gates success may ultimately
    be a factor in how well it is graded in 2012
    as it stands, I'd give the draft a solid "B"
    Gates success could easily move it to an "A"
     

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