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McFadden will not be a top 2 draftie

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LikeUntoGod, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    He could fall to 5-7.

    Look at what teams need, look at the history of the draft. Running backs always fall, Offensive and Defensive lineman always rise. Running backs play for 5 years, Lineman play for 10. It's all about value.

    And as far as need, a number of teams need QB's more then RB's.

    There are several good running backs this year. McFadden will be the first drafted.
     
  2. Jagfish

    Jagfish Season Ticket Holder

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    I could see the Jets drafting him in a heartbeat.
     
  3. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    The current system of drafting QBs is killing the play of the position in the league. The front office drafts the QB. The fans demand to see him after the first loss of the starter. I'm not saying it can change, I'm just saying that it is killing the play of the position. It's also killing careers. It's damn near a career killer to be a QB drafted in the first round.

    History serves for some draft picks but nothing in the NFL is more important than the passer. Top five picks are developing around the passing game. With that said, most top five picks can be summed up by these characteristics -

    A passer
    A receiver that can help the passer
    A lineman that can protect the passer

    or

    A lineman that can rush the passer
    A corner that can cover the receiver

    Top five picks are more and more about the passing game.
     
  4. Hellion

    Hellion Crash Club Member

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    I disagree, With AP dropping down to 7 last year, teams may view McFadden as too good to pass up regardless of their situation. i.e. Vikes had a good back in Chester Taylor and still went after Peterson. I think the Jets would jump him without a second thought.
     
  5. azstryker

    azstryker New Member

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    Ya neither was Peterson even though he clearly was the best player in the draft. bet those other 6 teams wish they could have a do over. Do we really want another hind sight draft or have we learned yet. With the number 1 pick, the dolphins should choose who ever is the best player in the draft period. McFadden, Doresey or someone else just as long as we get the can miss premier talent.
     
  6. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    RB's play for 5 years? Maybe we should draft McFadden then...seeing as Ronnie will already be in his 4th season next year.
     
  7. Jagfish

    Jagfish Season Ticket Holder

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    Agree 100% a team with this much of a dearth in talent needs to just pick the BPA.
     
  8. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    There is no way both of the top two quarterbacks make it out of the top five. Some team will make a trade with one of the top five. With our luck of late, they will trade with New England.
     
  9. azstryker

    azstryker New Member

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    I think Dorsey will be a good player, but there is no way we can draft him. A DT just doesn't make enough of an impact. Trade for more picks or draft a skilled position
     
  10. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    DT makes a huge impact on defense, HUGE.
     
  11. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    Let's say that anyone can pick any Rookie off any other NFL team right now. No trade, they just have to give you anyone you want.

    Would you pick Peterson? Or one of a number of defensive players. Or another player? We were runing for 5.1 ypc, if we had Peterson we could of up that to maybe 5.4 ypc

    Wow.

    Peterson or Willis? I can name 10 defensive rookies I'd rather have. And remember, this team is not being built to win this year, in fact, this year is over.

    Now who would you pick with perfect 20/20 hindsight? (careful, I consider this is a NFL football IQ test)
     
  12. TimeGap

    TimeGap New Member

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    Say No To Dorsey!!!!
     
  13. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, Peterson is having a phenomenal year, but so was Brown before getting hurt.

    1. Okoye
    1A. Willis
    2. Landry

    Knowing what I know now about our safteys, Landry may have moved up to 1
     
  14. Believerinteal

    Believerinteal New Member

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    If McFadden falls out of the Top 5, and San Francisco keeps losing, I'm beginning to sweat at the possibility that the Patriots will take him and make their offence that much scarier.
     
  15. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Can't worry about what the Pats will do, if you draft that way, you will never win.
     
  16. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    JAMARCUS RUSSELL
     
  17. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    he would not be close to one of my top 15 rookies to draft.
     
  18. Believerinteal

    Believerinteal New Member

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    You're right. No matter what they do, they'll still manage to kick the living crap out of the Dolphins for the next 10 years.
     
  19. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    NJ, Only time will tell on that matter. I look at that list right now though and I see potential. Ronnie Brown could have run for 2000 yards this year and we still wouldn't have a winning record. The game is about the passer. Find your passer.

    And one other thing.... If I could have any player in the league it would be Tom Brady.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2007
  20. Believerinteal

    Believerinteal New Member

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    If I could take any rookie, I'd take A.J. Hawk. He's a leader on defence, and has a good role model to look up to in Zach Thomas.
     
  21. Believerinteal

    Believerinteal New Member

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    Well, they're rarely consistent though. Alex Smith's had one good year. Eli Manning is marginal. Phil Rivers had a good year last year but that's because no one had any scouting on him. Vince Young has been banged up. I think the best of the young QB's is quite frankly, Ben Rothlesberger.
     
  22. Jagfish

    Jagfish Season Ticket Holder

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    Hawk isn't a rookie he's in his second year I believe.
     
  23. Believerinteal

    Believerinteal New Member

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    Whoops my bad. I thought it said "young player."
     
  24. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Since 1999


    10/17/99 -- Miami 31, at New England 30
    11/21/99 -- at Miami 27, New England 17
    09/24/00 -- at Miami 10, New England 3
    12/24/00 -- Miami 27, at New England 24
    10/07/01 -- at Miami 30, New England 10
    12/22/01 -- at New England 20, Miami 13
    10/06/02 -- at Miami 26, New England 13
    12/29/02 -- at New England 27, Miami 24 (ot)
    10/19/03 -- New England 19, at Miami 13 (ot)
    12/07/03 -- at New England 12, Miami 0
    10/10/04 -- at New England 24, Miami 10
    12/20/04 -- at Miami 29, New England 28
    11/13/05 -- New England 23, at Miami 16
    01/01/06 -- Miami 28, at New England 26
    10/08/06 -- at New England 20, at Miami 10
    12/10/06 -- at Miami 21, New England 0

    I really don't call that getting the crap beat out of you. This year, yes.
     
  25. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    But he didn't ask about "young Qb's". He asked about last years draft.

    As to the consistency, I'm looking at who is consistently winning and why they are winning.

    Patriots, Colts, Cowboys, Packers

    That is your class of the NFL and they all have the same thing in common. They have all found their passers. Everybody else is still scrambling to find their passer (including us). I'm just glad that we finally started looking.
     
  26. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I can agree with Brady, I just don't see Russell doing much. But time will tell.:ffic:
     
  27. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Considering they were drop kicking the ball and it takes a freakish game out of Jason Taylor for our wins - I'd give them the edge. When it matters to us most, they win.
     
  28. bluegrassbubba

    bluegrassbubba Season Ticket Holder

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    I've said all along we should have taken Willis and it has proven that would have been a good decision.
     
  29. dont fumble

    dont fumble Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    just make sure your picks 2 to 6 are O-line then...
     
  30. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Nope! It's all in the O-line coach - Dante Scarnecchia. I'll keep ours but I agree with your central theme. Brady has protection.

    That is yet another reason why I'm not on the coaching turnover bandwagon. Hud stayed with the Dolphins as he had worked with Cameron prior to his arrival. Who says he's staying with the Dolphins if they give Cam the boot?
     
  31. dont fumble

    dont fumble Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh, I agree with you, it's the coaches/system. I wouldn't touch a *Pats linemen (Woody, Andruzzi,...). Their players just look better than they are, I just think it includes the guy you would take if you had to pick one player.

    Anyway, I agree, I would like to keep Houck and an offensive system that fits his coaching. Mularkeys obviously didn't fit, but he is an idiot anyway.
    And with that being said, I believe it all starts up front. That's why I would draft a DT over a RB any day.
     
  32. sweeper

    sweeper New Member

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    let me break some things down for you.

    Peterson scores TDs RB doesnt, Peterson has 10 Rb hasn't past 5 in 3 each of the 3 yrs hes been playing. Peterson is agame changer RB isnt. teams gameplan around peterson cuz they cant' stop him but not the same for RB. Peterson is a guy who scores from 30 40 50 yards out with a 2nd gear RB is a guy who only scores within 4 yards can't break nethign past it for a TD. RB has better hands tho and a great blocker. So waht do you think we do? our team isnt built to score as it is now so we gotta get wahtevre we can get to spark thsi team and McFad just might do that with a WR T and TE coming via the next picks and a G in FA then 1 more WR in FA and the following yhear spend the picks on D and get a TOp CB this year and some key STers n Depth players via FA.

    Finish what we started on Offense first cuz its horrendous.
     
  33. sweeper

    sweeper New Member

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    Well no you are wrong. they all have the MAIN INGREDIANTS TO A SUCCESSFUL team intach.

    ALL OF THEm have the following...

    a Good QB, a GOOD-Great line in pass protection and Run blocking no matter who the Def. team is unlike us (onlyu good vs crappy D's), a very good Pass rusher, Shut down CBs and a Good S to lead the secondary unit, and a GO TO WR.

    As one of the great coaches said of the NFL about 3 weeks ago in an article, to have a championship team you need the following, a QB, a CB, a DE, and a RB. thats how u establish a team he said. is it accurate? yes it is but the line also helps out tremendously.
     
  34. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Peterson is averaging 6.5 YPC. Chester Taylor is averaging 4.8 behind the same line. Peterson has a chance to be a VERY VERY VERY special player. Even with a healthy Brown I pick Peterson everyday and twice on Sundays.

    That being said, I would pick Dorsey over Mcfadden. I think your example is a good one, I just feel that Peterson will be a Jim Brown type player. He skews the whole paradigm. Yes, I know it is way too early for that sort of talk, but we are comparing rookies to rookies and he is the best rookie I have seen in a decade or longer. Just my opionon.
     
  35. Mr.Majestik

    Mr.Majestik New Member

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    Joe Thomas is a hell of a lot more valuable

    than Adrian Peterson, and if I had the 2007 draft to do over again. I'd take Joe Thomas, Amobi Okoye, or Patrick Willis long before I'd take Peterson. Peterson is having success, but he won't last long in the NFL. Does anyone remember the year Jamal Lewis had in his rookie year? He ran with speed and power. He helped the Ravens win a Super Bowl. Lewis is a two-pronged example of what a highly drafted running back should be, and what a highly drafted running back can become 1) one of the final pieces for a contender 2) an object lesson in how quickly franchise backs are used up, even on good teams. In his first four-years, he missed a season due to injury, but played as well as any back had in the history of the game for three seasons. He nearly broke Dickerson's record, but guess what, he's long gone in Baltimore, but Jonathon Ogden is still there, not what he once was, but still a great player at arguably the toughest position other than QB to play. That's the difference between the value of a great back, and a great lineman.
     
  36. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You think AP is going to Jamal Lewis, I think he has a chance to be Jim Brown or Erick Dickerson. A great lineman should have a longer career. I don’t disagree. I think a good to great lineman is usually a better pick than a good to great back. Peterson IMO is much more than a good to great back.

    It’s hard to argue that an individual lineman has a bigger impact on an offence than an individual running back. The entire focus of a D can be shutting down a great running back. A lineman can draw some attention, but it’s not comparable. When you start talking truly special backs the impact deferential is even greater. Knowing what you know, do you add LT as a rookie, or his teammate Marcus McNeil? Or Shawn Merriman? That might not be fair as neither Merriman nor McNeil have had the time in the NFL that LT has had.

    I think that AP is a cliché’ though, the “once a generation freak”. So as a rule I would agree with you on drafting strategy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2007
  37. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger New Member

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    I don't pretend to follow the prospects as closely as I once did. But I certainly watch tons of college football and McFadden has never blown me away. Completely unlike Adrian Petersen who looked like a freak in his freshman year. I still have no idea how Petersen slipped last year.

    McFadden doesn't explode through points of contact like Petersen does. Petersen can knock you aside with his knees and shift in either direction while maintaining speed and balance. He's got that rare ability to make multiple and varied moves in each run, not merely a speed/slash type.

    McFadden gives you too much of a target at his long legs and will never threaten to bust as many tackles as Petersen on the pro level. He lacks that athletic arrogance of an Adrian Petersen while exploding through the line. He's great in space but that's in short supply in the NFL, unless you create it yourself like Devin Hester.

    That's one I got right, BTW. I remember a lengthy thread insisting Hester gaffed by turning pro early but I posted he had extremely rare ability, as evidenced by Deion Sanders' interest, and regardless of position Hester would be making big plays in the NFL while others picked ahead of him were struggling bigtime.

    The idea is to make the most of the pick. Ronnie Brown may be our best player, or one of them, but no one will ever convince me that a 5th year senior RB who carried a 2nd round grade heading into his senior year made a fleck of sense at #2. Nice player but #2 should flash wow ability, something your grandmother would be amazed by, and not merely once in a while.
     
  38. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    While you guys are still fumbling over the tackle, the running back, or whoever - you are still missing the passer. Therefore you are still losing. :up:
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    EXACTLY.

    So what should be expected out of the #1 then? A nice run stopping DT who can occasionally get a sack?

    Au Contraire mez amis finfans, especially one who has been injured all season and has a total of 1 sack....
     
  40. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    Best Defensive Player in college football. Why do people have to knock the guy.

    I'm on the fence about who I want....but I am leaning toward BPA regardless of position (meaning I am trying to warm up to the idea of McFadden). But I am having a hard time justifying paying a RB 30+ million when it is without a doubt the least of our needs. We have invested the high pick and the money there already. Ronnie Brown is VERY good....and was on his way to an elite season.

    I am not in favor of going strictly for a need, what good does drafting for immediate need do you when you are 0 to 4 win team and have holes everywhere. You need the best player long term, not the one who can step in and help you next year. BUT, I do think that you could eliminate certian positions from the equation, and if we did that, it would be running back.
     

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