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Mcain 4yrs 27 million

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ripper1961, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Money well spent. He's a very solid slot corner.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Leader of the corner group at this point..
     
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  4. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Too much imo. He is not the best slot corner in the league, why are we paying him like he is? And before last season he was average at best.

    I am not sure he will live up to this contract.

    Tbaum always overpays. Looks like another bad move similar to the kiko and branch extensions.
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Nothing like the those two. McCain is still going up. About time miami rewards young talent before they go to market
     
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  6. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I’m not a huge fan. Too much separation out of cuts. Can’t play the boundary or field without wearing a target.

    Julian edelman will wipe the floor with him. Or at least the pre injury version

    Played better football the second half of the season.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    McCain played much better last season than he had before. He also seemed to play better as the season went along, and really improved his play in the run game and as a tackler. Took a lot of steps in the right direction. He'll turn 25 in August, so his best years could very well be ahead of him. He's also never missed a game, playing in all 48 since being drafted.

    I like what I've seen from his personality. He's a likable guy who seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and also seems to be well liked by his teammates and coaches.

    The contract isn't risk free of course, but its betting on a guy that the team has developed to get better as he enters his prime, and that's a good use of the funds. And now he's locked up through 2022.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not a huge fan of giving all these front-heavy contracts with huge bonuses.....especially to rookies.

    I think about playing college ball and where I was at when I was 22-23 years old. If you would have handed me a $5-10M bonus check on day one and told me to "go get em", I seriously doubt that my sole focus would be football. To me, it's too much of a distraction for young players to develop and grow....you just can't give em that much money early on.
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    McCain would have been a free agent after the season. If the team didn't extend him, he very well would have left.

    And as far as rookies, are you aware that they're making much, much less now than they were previously? They're also prohibited from signing a new deal until they've been in the league for three years, forcing the team and player to make certain they belong before giving them big money.
     
  10. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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  11. patcobb

    patcobb Active Member

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    based on his play last season, it is likely he would have gotten paid more next season. For this reason, I'm on board with it
     
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  12. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    He deserves it for this moment alone. :chuckle:

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to focus on the guaranteed money, which is only $13 million. A good gamble, as he continues to improve and has stayed healthy his entire career (please don't make me regret typing that McCain).
     
  14. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I like it. Not huge upfront money. We can make a decision whether to extend again or release him in 4 years without harsh cap consequences. In the meantime, we have a very good corner. If Xavien can step up, we have two solid corners to go with a talented group of safeties.
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought I read that Fitzpatrick signed today with a sizable up-front bonus....over half the total contract. That's what I was referring to but we've done that with several players this year already.
     
  16. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I think the nickel CB doesn't get the respect it deserves. From what some are saying, McCain has played pretty well and the arrow seems to moving up. He's doing all the right things. I like that we are taking care of the guy.
     
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  17. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Rookie contacts are virtually guaranteed to be a certain amount based on where a player gets chosen. Teams really only negotiate language and provisions with rookies.
     
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  18. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    One of my favorite players on this team. Guy plays with a lot of heart, he's improved, and he is still climbing in terms of skill. Happy to have him around.
     
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  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    A few thoughts:
    • Peoples' paradigms for contract values and the salary cap tend to lag actual salary cap growth by about 3 years or so. That's how long it takes them to process the contract values being tossed around. This is a $177 million salary cap, not a $120 million salary cap. And by the time this extension (worth $6.75 million per year) kicks in, the salary cap will be upwards of $190+ million.

    • That means the average annual pay is equivalent to about 1/28th of the salary cap. If you figure a full time 100% starter gets about 1000 snaps (more or less) that means you're paying Bobby McCain for roughly ~800 snaps of average quality. He will get that, and he will produce that.

    • Peoples' paradigms for resource allocation also tends to lag behind defensive and offensive trends. There was only ONE defense in the NFL last year that was a 4-3 (or a 3-4). It was the Cleveland Browns. And at 0-16, I hardly think we should be emulating them. The rest of the NFL used approximately 5.0 defensive backs per snap.

    • That Nickel is the new base is hardly the point. The point is that DIME (6 DBs) is now nearly as popular a defense as Base (4 DBs). That means even if everything went perfect and your defensive backs stayed perfectly healthy, your 6th defensive back is going to play. The NFL average is about 20-25%.

    • Bobby McCain is obviously not that 6th defensive back. He's somewhere between 4th and 5th. But people seem upset with the implication that Tankersley, Lippett, and McDonald will shuffle around the 5th, 6th, and 7th spots. The point is, THEY WILL ALL PLAY.

    • The defensive backs will probably split 5,000 snaps this year, because of the signaled increase in Dime usage. They had about 4,564 defensive backs snaps a year ago (on the basis of 1000 snaps being 100% participation). But they NEVER used Dime, and now they've signaled they're going to, hence I believe they'll be up to 5,000 snaps.

    • They may have even more DB snaps. The Green Back Packers played Dime about 45% of snaps (incredible) and used about 5,207 defensive back snaps. Dom Capers was recently at practice as an observer. I wouldn't forecast the Dolphins to go that far, but splitting right between the two would put them at about 4,900 defensive backs snaps.

    • With any luck (it won't happen, but let's assume), Reshad Jones, Minkah Fitzpatrick, and Xavien Howard will achieve such great health that they account for 3,000 of these snaps. The Dolphins are paying Bobby McCain to account for ~800 of these snaps.

    • That leaves 1,200 snaps to share between Cordrea Tankersley, Tony Lippett, and T.J. McDonald. Even more if you don't have perfect health (who ever does?). That is PLENTY of work for those guys. If they split them equally at 400 a piece, that would put them nearly on par with some of the highly-paid, high-resource defensive linemen like Cameron Wake, Robert Quinn, Charles Harris, Andre Branch, and Jordan Phillips.

    • Keep in mind that coming out of the draft he had like the 3rd best shuttle time the Combine had ever seen among the CBs, and he ran somewhere between 4.43 (hand time) and 4.51 ("electronic"). With a 10'10" broad jump. There tends to be a narrative that Bobby McCain is not very athletic. He is.

    • I thought he was generally very good the last two years but that he showed a tendency to fall apart particularly in the red zone, and that he's not as good against the run as we might want in certain looks. But in his defense, his red zone woes in 2016 generally disappeared in 2017. He only allowed ONE touchdown last year (as opposed to FOUR in 2016).

    • You know what though? Even if these weaknesses come back a little, Minkah Fitzpatrick can help in the red zone, and in run situations, when you take some nickel on the field. No shame in that. So what if McCain plays all of Dime, much of Base, and the majority of Nickel. That still gets him to his 800 snaps, most likely.
     
  20. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That /\
     
  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Yeah, as Carib said, teams basically don't negotiate much with rookies any longer. A first rounder is basically getting four years of guaranteed money at X amount. It is what it is. The benefit of Fitz being pick #11 is that his 5th year option will be a lot cheaper than it would be if he were pick #10, should it come to that instead of an extension before that point. (the top 10 are a greater expense).

    So basically, we have him locked up for 5 years at a fair expense if he's a good player. He's currently the team's 16th highest paid player. That's a far cry from where first rounders used to be.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  22. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Wow...great analytics, of course. And a much simpler observation...if just plays like he did last year, when FA starts he's going to cost a lot more than what we signed him for.
     
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  23. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I am not sure where I heard it, but I am pretty sure I heard someone fairly respectable say that your best CB should be your nickel. I can see why, but I wonder how many would agree with that philosophy?
     
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  24. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    BMac and Xavien are both very good. If the can be "shut down" type of players, then Cordrea and Lipp can be above avg...with our Safeties, our back 7 should be really strong. Esp with the DEs bringing pressure on QBs.
     
  25. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I like this signing. First of all, I think retaining our own guys early, is something we need to do more of. He has been a solid player and is the type of player that we need to beat New England (They love their slot receivers.).

    Moreover, I can see the general progression of our defense. I really think that we have done a great job of putting together an elite secondary. Howard may be truly special, Jones is special, and Minkah could also emerge into a truly special player. McCain is fantastic at what he does. McDonald is a solid third safety that may see some LB duty. Realistically, if either Lippett or Tankersly can turn the corner, our back end will be really nice.

    Going forward, we just need to focus on upgrading interior defensive lineman and linebackers.

    I like the vision of this defense.
     
  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I know I don’t. Our best corner is Xavien Howard and it’s not close. No matter what pff wants to tell you.
     
  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    They're both talented young guys who have been getting better since the middle of 2016, and are signed for at least three more seasons. Barring injury, we should be in a pretty good spot there now. I'm not going to worry too much about which one of the two is better.
     
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  28. sunworshipper

    sunworshipper Member

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    Only two seasons for X.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    + fifth year option.
     
  30. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Why is there an 5th yr option on X?
     
  31. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Oh, oops! Totally spaced there. You are totally correct.
     

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