Marshall's performance in the Pro Bowl.......

I think being a football fan is emotional for the most part. People do get attached to the players they like and their view points.

I could see your concern about Moore if Moore was 30 something or has been playing consistantly for his career. However since Moore hasn't had any stability and a few injury problems, I think there is a chance that Moore is developing into a pretty good darn quarterback. Not a Peyton Manning of course, more of a Hassleback or Schaub type QB who are ones I think you can win superbowls with. Breaking down Moore's season with the Dolphins last year and he comes out doing really well. For instance Miami was one of the top team for 20 yard passes with Moore. That is with one of the worst offensive lines in the league, a relativily new system, and the fact that before the season he had almost zero time with the first team due to the lock out and a new offense.

It could all have been smoke and mirrors, however I am curious to see if it wasn't. Talent level he is as talented as Matt Flynn.

 

That's a good point, and emotion is a huge part of being a fan. But the biggest part of being a fan is wanting your team to win, and I think having a capable QB is the biggest piece of that puzzle. I guess that's why I don't get the sentimental attachment to sub-par QBs we see around here sometimes.

I don't think you can matter-of-factly say Moore is as talented as Flynn. He might be. He might not be. Hell, he might be MORE talented. We just don't know. Again, it's the lack of production that concerns me with Moore. Not many 300 yard games. Not a ton of TDs. Maybe he could improve there. I really hope we keep Moore whatever we decide to do at QB and I hope he gets a fair shake to start. But I'll be really disappointed as a fan if we do not try to upgrade the position.

 

Moore went 6-3 5 wins vs very porous defensedown the stretch. his first 3 1/2 games were atrocious. the he wins some games vs weak *** defense with an improved performing suppoprt cast. this doesnt kean we can win with him it means vs inferior teams we can win. HE DID NOT BEAT ONE QUALITY TEAM THAT MADE THE PLAYLOFFS! How has he shown we should forego upgrading the position?

he played well vs good teams inspurts but whne we needed a big play late he failed to come thru. when other units/players struggled and you need your leader to make a play, he didnt.

maybe he progresses? should we bank on it?

 

It doesn't really concern me as much about Moore because he has played on extremely ******* teams. Looking at his career numbers if Matt Moore was a first round pick type player people would have a little more confidence in him.

Looking at his year with his 16 to 9 touchdown to interception ratio and his 7.2 yards per attempt, I do think Miami is a playoff team in 2010 with those type of stats.

Matt Moore makes me less excited about Matt Flynn. However I would still want Miami to draft a quarterback in the 1st round of the draft if they decide to go with Matt Moore being quarterback.

 

Then we agree. I'm all for drafting our QB of the future. Matt Flynn concerns me. I'm just worried Green Bay has another one of those offenses that can make any somewhat capable QB look like a franchise guy. Kind of like Philadelphia.

I do like Matt Moore. I'm just very opposed with him being the unchallenged starter and not drafting a QB high.

 

Not a ton of yards, but over the last 9 games he threw for a pace of 27 TDs and about 8 or 9 INTs. That isn't terrible and more than enough to win with a strong defense and run game.

Can he carry a team on his back to the Super Bowl? Of course not, not at this level. Can he carry a strong team to the superbowl? I think so if he continues to play like that. Passing ypg is low, around 3200 a year pace through those last 9 games. Exactly the same as Ben R through his 2005 campaign.

If Matt Moore plays like he did the last 9 games of 2011, we can win with him. You have to build up around him though. But you can win.

If you can get a Brees/Brady/Rodgers then yeah. Sure. Let's go grab one. After all they grow on trees.

 

To what end would you trust Matt Moore to lead our team? Would you trust him enough to not draft a QB high, or go after a Matt Flynn in free agency? Are you ready to assume this is a guy who can play at a high enough level to get a team to a superbowl?

The last team that placed that kind of trust in him earned the #1 overall pick.

 

I think all those questions would apply to almost any QB that will be starting for us next year, whether it be Matt Moore, Matt Flynn, or someone you draft. The reality is that if you don't have one of the top-5 QBs in the league, you're asking yourself whether your QB is good enough, or waiting on a young QB to prove that he is good enough.

 

I would say Alex Smith is better than Moore. I think Moore can throw with anybody given a clean pocket, but the guys you can win a SB with are the guys who are going to make plays when everything isn't perfect.

 

The best example IMO was the TD pass to Clay in the Jets game. You couldn't ask for any better in a QB performing under extreme duress. If he is given a shored up right side to the OL, and the time to get more experience, IMO we'd see more and more of those kinds of plays.

 

Wait!! that can't be...MM isn't an Elite QB!!!!!! lol

 

So tell me, how well does the number of touchdown passes per game correlate with winning? I'm going to give you a few links to read. Maybe you will learn some things such as passing efficiency is much more important than passing volume.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/07/what-makes-teams-win-part-1.html

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/07/what-makes-teams-win-2.html

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/07/what-makes-teams-win-3.html

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/07/what-makes-teams-win-4.html

http://www.twominutewarning.com/correlations2.htm

http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2012/01/2011-nfl-regular-season-wins-and-stat.html

As you can see, but may not be able to understand, passer rating had the highest correlation with winning of any passing stat this year. That's the difference between Miami going 0-7 (passer rating of 72), and Miami finishing 6-3 (passer rating of 98). You do not have to throw for 4,000+ yards and 30+ touchdowns to be a superbowl winning quarterback, but you dang sure have a great chance if you have a 95+ passer rating.

Quick. Tell me how many back up quarterbacks can come in, start multiple games, and put up passer ratings better than 85 consistently? Matt Moore is clearly more than just a good back up quarterback, and the numbers prove it. This isn't a small sample size either. This is over 25 career starts. In 25 career starts, Matt Moore has a career passer rating of 86.0, which is very good. He is much better as a starter than as a back up. What you conveniently leave out is the fact that Matt Moore suffered a concussion in the first game of the 2010 season and was rushed back too soon before they finally shut him down for a couple of games.

You are completely missing the point. The point is that he has basically blamed his lack of touchdown production on the quarterback play in Miami when he is the one that dropped 6 touchdown passes. I don't care what few elite plays he may have made, which pales in comparison to the true elite receivers in the game, nothing he has done gives him the right to throw Matt Moore under the bus when Matt's performance this year was better than Brandon's.

 

I think Marshall and Moore are good for each other. He averaged 3 yards more per reception this year than he did last year. I think part of that is due to Daboll and a different offense. But I also think it's because of Moore's ability to pass downfield. As for TDs, Marshall is almost as much of a problem (for lack of a better word) as Moore is.

If we had Drew Brees I think Marshall would have more TDs. But that's mostly because he is a great QB and would run a more efficient offense than Moore. Though Moore is capable enough overall to get Marshall 10 TDs a year. The only weakness with Moore is his short passing accuracy, which would come into effect in the red zone. But I don't think that's a huge barrier for Marshall's TD production given a full season.

 

Are you completely ignoring what he said? It is blatantly obvious. I wouldn't expect someone that has the woman beater in his sig though who is such a fan of him that he will completely ignore all his many faults and laud his few strengths.

 

Comical....I can tell you I understand common sense, advanced stats are nice an all, however again common sense is this....

In today's NFL, you need a qb, and a damn good one, one who slings it around like a fire breather....why? BECAUSE LOOK AT THE MAKEUP OF THE TEAMS IN THE PLAYOFFS AND SUPERBOWL WINNERS. And again Doc, consider the fact that the rules are different now and will forever favor qb's and the offense unless they change, even down to where the kickoff is placed....

So with that lets see some stats.....and I am only looking up yards and td, because unlike a pitcher in baseball where W/L ERA doesnt tell the whole story, these 2 do in football as far as qb's go, ESPECIALLY TD's....

Averages for yards and TD's for all QB's in the playoffs:
2011 4074 yards and 28 tds.........Miami--3365 and 20
2010 3667 yards and 25 tds.........Miami--3301 and 15
2009 3926 yards and 26 tds.........Miami--2878 and 12

now again lets take this a step futher, because common sense tells me again that we all can agree that winning the Super Bowl is everyones goal, not just making the playoffs.....so lets see the avgs of the QB who made it to the SB

2011 5084 yards and 34 tds
2010 3561 yards and 23 tds
2009 4444 yards and 33 tds

2010 is skewed because of Ben R, however that year the Steelers had a ridiculous defense......

During the past 3 years plus Miami has had 1000 yard runners, 1000 yard receivers, top 10 defenses, top 10 rushing offesnes, qbs who have had better ratings than probably some of the ones whom actually made the playoffs like this year...but still no playoffs, and they have regressed even with all that talent since 3 years ago, why?

Why is it that a team like Carolina who doesn't have nearly the talent Miami does, one year removed from the #1 overall pick HAS THE SAME RECORD as them with a rookie quarterback hmmm Doc? Could it be well the qb himself?

A qb in this league nowadays is everything, Miami needs one who throws for 3700 yards min and up....4000 yards is the new 3000....they need a qb who throws for 30 tds and up.....I doing care about ratings, take them with you when you wonder and cant "understand" at the end of every year why they aren't in the playoffs...I dont care about interceptions all that much, I mean I dont want to turn the ball over a bunch sure I agree, but it comes with the territory of the nature of the gunslinger....

 

Like I said. You don't understand what actually wins in the NFL. That's fine. You also aren't willing to learn what wins in the NFL.

The average passer rating of the two quarterbacks is 99.25. The average YPA average of the two quarterbacks in the Superbowl is 8.4 YPA.

They are there because they pass the ball efficiently, not the volume of their pass attempts or yardage.

 

It is very clear on what makes teams win in the NFL....simple actually

yes there is a correlation between ratings, and yard per obviously.....so with that I want a higher rating....agreed kinda.....

again what I don't want is a qb on pace to throw under 3700 (I will even take 3500) a season, which Moore did this year despite having Marshall (queue the Marshall haters), and as well more importantly a qb who throws for under 28 tds which at 1.2 tds a game Moore would have had a hard time reaching 20 this year.....it isnt cutting it simple as that...

I know what that gets you, not many wins, as was the case this year, even again with higher ratings than qbs who had better numbers....the ratings go down for some of these qbs because they throw the ball more, thus leading to more interceptions so it hinders the rating....so to me I get how rating works, I just dont care, give me a guy with 4000 yards 36 tds and 17 ints at a 85 rating over a guy with 3300 yards 21 tds and 10 ints and a 91 rating everday.......

Wanna take a guess who wins more in todays game??

 

I think there are very few Marshall so called haters, there is a difference in hating what he did publicly to another teammate, and wanting him off the team..Thats not what the majority wants.

 

sorry but again when you can show wher MM pulled a game out of the ashes when as a team we struggled you would get me to agree. but all i see is stats. stats arguments alone win nothing. stats are not solely individual driven and so cannot be definitive.

In close games under pressure Moore faltered plain and simple disguise it with stats all you want but he didnt show that with the game on the line we can count on him to get it done. Alex Smith showed he could do it, Moore didnt.

Can Moore progress with better coaching? absolutely. I am not advocating cutting him. I say keep him and let him compete. But dont make the same mistake we did last year and hand him the job with no backup plan and not just a short term back up plan

 

Who had advocated just giving Matt the job next year? People tend to ignore the stats when the stats do not suppor their preconceive point of view. When Matt Moore signed, he was an afterthought to many of you, and now that he has overwhelmingly exceeded expectations, you cannot let go of your preconceived notion of him. That's OK. It's just better if you admit it rather than continue this idea that says he isn't really that good DESPITE the stats that show he is indeed not only pretty good but a very good, top half of the league starting quarterback.

And regardless, Matt Moore has still done nothing to deserve getting thrown under the bus by a glory seeking, selfish, prima donna receiver.

 

Weren't you just saying we should throw out Cam Newton's rushing stats a few pages ago? lol

And I agree that Moore is better than a lot of people give him credit and that BM shouldn't be saying anything considering his play was far from perfect last year.

 

I'm going to give you a few more stats just to check to see if you really understand things the way you think you may understand them. You do know what the stat "touchdown percentage" is, correct? It's the percentage of TD passes that a player throws, which is measured by TD passes divided by pass attempts. So, you see that total touchdown passes is misleading because it is a volume statistic and is completely dependent upon passing attempts to be high.

So, let's look at Eli Manning and Matt Moore comparatively to show you the difference. Eli Manning threw 29 touchdown passes. Matt Moore threw 16. So, according to the way you look at it, Eli is obviously much better at throwing touchdons than Matt Moore is.

Now, let's compare their TD%. Eli threw a TD on 4.9% of his pass attempts. Matt Moore threw a TD on 4.6% of his pass attempts (11th in the NFL). Hmm. What does that mean? That means if you extrapolate that Matt Moore will continue that level of efficiency, which there is no reason to believe that it will drop, then if given the # of attempts that Eli Manning got, Matt Moore would likely throw around 27 touchdown passes. Basically, if Matt Moore were given 590 pass attempts, he would likely throw for 4,248 yards and 27 touchdowns based on his efficiency numbers.

 

No. If the QB is there, you take him. If you make it to the superbowl, but Dan Marino lands in your lap, you take him. But it's not like Matt Moore can NEVER lead the team. The team just has to be stronger. Hell Brady or Manning couldn't lead the team by themselves.