Well, not only did they trade Manny Ramirez for Jason Bay, they traded Ramirez, Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss for Bay. I don't call that a good move. The Dodgers got Ramirez for LaRoche and Bryan Morris, essentially, which is a hell of a deal. I like LaRoche a lot, actually, but it was apparent that the Dodgers, for whatever reason, simply refused to play him. I thought that was stupid on their part, but if you can get a player you can use for one you hate, hey, go for it. I found it comical that Steve Phillips was panning this trade from the Dodgers' POV. He was saying "what do they do now? They have too many outfielders!" Really? Because I see Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, Ramirez, and two wildly overpaid guys who can't play a lick (Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones). Use Pierre as a defensive replacement for Ramirez, if you must. Jones should simply be written off as a sunk cost at this point. I liked what the Pirates did here, too. Four good prospects is a good return for Bay, in my book.
He is the epitome of a George Costanza "opposite" talking head....whatever he says, I think opposite and then am happier for it!
You obviously haven't seen Craig Hansen pitch for the Sox. Moss is a nice player but he's nothing more than a 4th OFer, he has no spot for the Red Sox this year and in the future.
Couple of things. At this point Manny had really soured with the Sox, he may have moaned before, but this time he did everything in his power to get traded (laxidasical play, crazy comments, the works). I don't know if you can roll the dice with a guy that would only hit or play on his terms really, especially as we have to push for the playoffs. If we keep Manny he is just gonna do more stuff so at the end of the year we wouldn't pick up his option and he could become a FA and look for 5/100m contract from some team. So instead of getting a couple of picks we land Jason Bay. Craig Hansen is rocking a 5.58 era with a 1.70 whip at the moment. Trust me this guy has talent but all he has done is kill the Sox. Maybe he can find it in Pittsburgh, but it wasn't happening in Boston. Brandon Moss is a pretty good young player, but he wasn't getting any playing-time. Bay, Ellsbury, Drew, Coco leaves very little play for a 4th outfield type. Moss was trying to learn to play 1st to get more playing time. Sure giving up one of the best righties in the last 30 years is rough, but Bay isn't that bad and is signed in 09' at 7.5 million which isn't bad. Given all the other stuff going on I think it could have been worse. I am far from worried about the Sox offense, as much as I worry about our pitching. Its all about pitching in the playoffs.
Offense gets you into the playoffs. Josh Beckett has a sub 4 ERA and is 9-7. I'm very worried about our offense. Playoffs?! Are we talking about playoffs?! [/JimMoraRant]
Right now we are 4th in offense, 8th in pitching. Josh Beckett is 9-7 because our bullpen has been crap all year long. Our best 2 relievers all year have been David Aardsma and Javier Lopez, not exactly a pillar of strengh for the Sox right now.
I tend to agree. Although anyone who thinks Juan Pierre is going to be a defensive replacement for anyone, obviously hasn't seen his lollipop throws into the infield. L.A. DOES have too many outfielders, and I thought this would coincide with either Pierre or Ethier being moved for a pitcher. So far, none of that seems to be happening. However, I suppose with Manny in left, they probably need to keep Andruw Jones in center (for defensive purposes) and right field will have to be divvied up between MAtt Kemp and Andre Ethier. Perosnally, I think their best outfield lineup will be Manny in Left, Kemp in Center and Ethier in Right, but I am not sure how often that will happen... I am not a big Man-Ram fan, but for what the Dodgers gave up (an underachieving third baseman and a pitcher coming off of Tommy John surgery), I will gladly take him on my team. Throw in the fact that the Red Sox are paying his salary and I am a happy panda.
I am listening to L.A. radio and they are running a contest on what your sign at Dodger Stadium will say tomorrow (is if Dodger Stadium allowed signs...) Some of the best so far are: Manny, we are JONESing for a hit (my favorite) We would love to pay you, but Andruw has your money Manny, please keep being Manny (mine) Andruw Jones you still suck!
Don't forget Jeff Kent and his red ***! Torre has always excelled at managing big egos. His time in New York proves that. Manny, Jeff Kent and Andruw Jones in the same locker room should be a nice challenge for him.
Manny is going to tear it yp in that weak *** N.L. Beyond Webb and Haren, it's going to be like little league for him. Torre is going to love him. Manny is not a distraction... One time every year (trade deadline) he acts a little crazy and then it's done. This year is no different. The guys in the clubhouse will love him and he'll carry the team on his back into the playoffs. AJ and Kent are altogether another story.
I don't buy into that kind of hype, Johan Santana was suppose to make NL hitters look foolish and while he has pitched better than his record right now he hasn't done that are even come close. As for hitters like Manny, well no one will be like Manny when it comes to hitting, but elite sluggers who have switched leagues have not experience much fluctuation going from one league to another like Jim Thome and Carlos Delgado. Jim Thome from 2004(NL) to 2006(AL) - have to skip 2005 due to injuries. http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomeji01.shtml Carlos Delgado from 2004(AL) t0 2005(NL) http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/delgaca01.shtml In fact except for BA in 2005 Delgado's slugging numbers took a dip when he left the AL.
I would say age/production when changing leagues is a factor. Delgado's 1st year in the N.L. saw a huge spike in numbers. Since going to the mets )33yo) he has sucked. Thome's career stats are weird. Hitting .300 one year, .250 another. You use Santana as an example, I'll use C.C. He had a 3.93 ERA in the AL, and in 4 starts (3 complete games) and a 1.92 ERA in the N.L. It's 4 starts... OK, but what about D-Lowe? 4.47 and 5+ ERA in BOS and now a 3.5ish ERA every year in LA. The N.L (west) can't hit for ****. 4/5 teams are 23rd and back on offense. Only two teams in the west in the top 10 in pitching. Introduce a hitting machine like Manny and you've hit pay dirt. I 100% believe he's going to tear it up. Time will tell though.
Yikes. Looks like we have an NL fan here. Hansen is a certified piece of trash and as Ray pointed out earlier, Moss has a limited ceiling. So long as Bay produces in the Boston market (which is the gigantic question mark), then this could be an excellent deal for the Red Sox.
Bay is a huge question mark, the next big game for him will be his first big game. He is hitting 216 with runners in scoring postion and batting 190 vs lefties
He hit .247 last year in the Pittsburgh Market. I think Mr. Bay will find out how difficult it is to replace Manny Ramirez. I wish him the best thought as Ive always thought he was a good player.
Again, no one in their right mind expects Bay to replace Manny when he is/was on the top of his game. However, being that he quit on the team, I'd much rather have Bay in the lineup then some malcontent who couldn't give a rats *** about winning.
I hear you. They needed a change and Bay will be serviceable. Hopefully he has a better start than JD Drew and Edgar Renteria did.
Well, my point was that this is couched as Ramirez for Bay. It's not. They gave up two prospects WITH Ramirez to get Bay. Hansen looks like a bust, but he's got a good fastball, and who knows, maybe some more time in AAA would help him. I've rethought my position on the deal overnight, in any case. I still think it's a short-term loser for Boston; Bay is not going to replicate Ramirez's production. And the whole "Manny being Manny" thing is comically overblown. Baseball's primarily an individual sport more than a team sport. That said, the long-term benefits of this deal are impressive: 1 year and 2 months of a reasonably priced Jason Bay are better than 2 months of $20M Manny Ramirez. The question is whether the long term outweighs the short term here. As Boston is a World Series contender, I'm unconvinced of that, but it's a debatable point, to be sure.
A new rumor has it that Manny wants to sign with the Yankees this offseason so he can punish the Red Sox for the way he was treated (sigh). Link: http://fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/61510
If he really said that it's got to be the funniest thing I've heard all year so far. Two months ago he wanted to stay in Boston forever, then after one day in LA he wanted to stay with the Dodgers. Oh well I'd consider the source which is apparently 'a close friend' and also it's from a NY paper. Probably just trying to add fuel to the fire. As Don said, Manny is going to whoever offers him the most cash.
